What does 'Are you a Muslim first or...' mean?

[Kaniska]

People attempt to became part of both worlds will belong to neither and they are destinated to seen as 'other' by the people of both worlds.

Spot on...Cultural Nationalism always binds people...Religion will never ever bind people in true sense....

 

[Adonis]

As a devout, practicing but a humbly error-proned Muslim, I feel lucky that I am a Pakistani. Because I don't to choose between Islam and Pakistan, they are one in the same.

Islam Allah o Rasool ka deen hay...
Pakistan Allah o Rasool ki dayn hay.

Pakistan Zindabad
Allah hu Akbar

Yet your state does not treat all Muslims as same. ...
Ref: Shias, Ahmadis, Kadyanis etc.etc...... we recently saw that example in 'Naya Pakistan', when Atif Mian was kicked out

And among the socienty in general, Height of difference is that even Azaan timings of these sects (including Sunnis) are different to each other just to prove they are different from other Muslim sect...Shame...

 

[GumNaam]

Yet your state does not treat all Muslims as same. ...
Ref: Shias, Ahmadis, Kadyanis etc.etc...... we recently saw that example in 'Naya Pakistan', when Atif Mian was kicked out

And among the socienty in general, Height of difference is that even Azaan timings of these sects (including Sunnis) are different to each other just to prove they are different from other Muslim sect...Shame...

Uh, yyyyyeah, no one considers "Ahmadis, Kadyanis" (copy paste) as Muslims except for nonmuslims like you. And all Muslim schools of thoughts are free to practice their beliefs with mutual respect. At best, one can make the case that we have room for improvement in meeting the true Islamic standards. And speaking of making cases you've made a p!ss poor one. We don't follow "your" wishful thinking of what "you" think Islam should be and we have nothing to prove to you. stay in your neck of the woods and worry about your impending problem of white supremacist terrorism.

 

[Wa Muhammada]

I fear Allah more than Constitution of Pakistan.
For me after death I will be asked about my God ( Allah) & name of my Prophet.
Allah is my God and Prophet Mohammed S.A.W.
They won't ask about Nationality.
So put it that way.
I don't want angels to hold me accountable for my statement today and record it.
God forbid. Hence Muslim comes first abiding towheed and other is later
Safety first man... Don't mean to mess this one.

Nicely put

But I see a lot of chavals on this forum who don’t care much for Islam but give more importance to the state and nationalism. I honestly believe it’s because they are not religiously inclined, their environment and the secularisation of education.

Anyone who talks abt Islam is called an extremist! But are they not extremists themselves?

I fear for the future of Islam in Pakistan, we are moving towards a time where religion will be state-controlled & society itself will become affected by this.

I know I’m stereotyping and generalising but living in Pakistan I have seen:

- the upper classes who only read eid namaz and Jumma when they are in the mood. These lot can be described aptly by those actresses who dress provocatively on TV shows and then say
‘ ما شاء الله our drama/film is a hit’ ?!?
Someone I know sent me a Facebook link and it showed his sisters and mother modelling on a ramp and for them this is enlightenment but for the faithful this is beghairti’.
- the middle class are still religious
- a working class who is religious and maybe the faithful
- a working class who is ignorant of Islam and do all sorts of wrong things like back magic etc

I find the Muslims living in the western world more devout. There are now two camps in the west - those who becoming more inclined to religion and hold steadfast and those who have been sucked into the fitna of fahashi and oryani of western society

Only Pakistan first. Curse other everything if it clashes with country interest.

Mate....Your living in a bubble and when that bubble bursts it’s going to be too late for u

 

[JF-17ThunderBlock3]

Only Pakistan first. Curse other everything if it clashes with country interest.

That's What Musharaf Said , "Only Pakistan First" Sub Se Pehle Pakistan.
What he did is history. His notion was to be for country's interest but reality turn out to be different.
State herself need revamping in laws, in politics , there is no magnitude to standardize the actions which are in country's interest by default.

https://sunnah.com/muslim/33/218

 

[Wa Muhammada]

That's What Musharaf Said , "Only Pakistan First" Sub Se Pehle Pakistan.
What he did is history. His notion was to be for country's interest but reality turn out to be different.
State herself need revamping in laws, in politics , there is no magnitude to standardize the actions which are in country's interest by default.

https://sunnah.com/muslim/33/218

This is why I admire Erdogan...he has made Turkeys economy strong but at the same time we have seen a rise of Islamic conscience which had been whittled away by previous secular regimes. However I still think it will be difficult to make Turkey a total Islamic state because the damage has been done, it will need decades of effort.

I sometimes wish that we could swap Erdogan for IK

 

[vampire_god]

When we are born one of the immediate things is done by our father, grand-father or our elders is to recite "Adhan and Iqamah" in our ears, which is a Sunnah.
A declaration and to congratulate the soul that you are born in a Muslim family.
Then after a few weeks, months or in the old days years, our father request or apply for our first Passport. A declaration that you are a Pakistani as your parents are Pakistani too.
I'm thankful to Allah that I'm born in a Muslim family and proud that my parents are Pakistani which makes me a Muslim born in Pakistan.

Religion and your Nationality are two different things.

 

[Avicenna]

Salaam




That is a very interesting point. The legal side of the question - which law does one follow.


In the earlier days of the Bolshevik revolution, one of the proposals being considered (and they tried but didn't move forward because of high resistance) was that just wealth should be communal, so should wives be communal as well. This way all would've been truly equal - I think the idea comes from Plato's work on utopia (and maybe Marx and co also wrote it). Even Lenin's wife was for it, apparently.

So if one were to leave Islam and religion out of it, say the law of the land (and the constitution) is changed to represent something of that nature, would many a people consider following the law and sharing their wives as it would be part of the constitution of Pakistan? Or would they say that the law is against their idea of Pakistaniness?

So the way I see it is that it may be easy for a non-religious person to easily say that they are Pakistani first even if it means leaving Islam. They will follow the constitution of Pakistan. However, the same person may not be as keen on claiming being a staunch follower of Pakistani constitution and law if it suddenly meant they are required to follow the communal wife proposal of Lenin and co - (provided they aren't into that sort of thing).

So it is easy be a Pakistani first (in the sense you've mentioned) if it means doing something you are comfortable doing. However, if suddenly the definition of Pakistaniness is changed to something you are very uncomfortable with, something that goes against many of the other deeply held beliefs of yours, than it isn't as easy.

--

So the take away, IMHO, is that the whole issue depends on how one defines Pakistaniness. Define it in a way that makes it conform to your deeply held beliefs and you are a patriot or define it such that it goes against deeply held beliefs of others and you can brand them traitors and such.


----

Your last sentence is profound.

 

[TheNoob]

Black mail.
It is black mail.

 

[Hamza913]

Salaam

NOTE: This thread is not actually asking this question, rather it is ABOUT the meaning of this question.

Are you a Muslim first or a (insert your choice identity/belief etc)

This question seems to get asked a lot by people. I have heard this question asked on national television of political leader amongst countless other instances.

So what is this question supposed to actually mean? I just wanted to get a clear idea of what it is actually being asked here.

If you ask a person if they are a Muslim first or a Pakistani first - what are you exactly asking them?

Is the question, essentially, meant as a choice between

• Renouncing Allah, His Messenger (pbuh) and the deen of Islam

and,

• Renouncing the state of Pakistan

?

Like if it came down to chosing one or the other, is a person who says Pakistani first (as opposed to Muslim first) saying that they will be willing to abandon Allah, His Messenger and Islam for Pakistan?

Is a person a bad Pakistani if they say they are Muslim first?

What about the opposite of it?


Please treat this as a genuine question and answer accordingly - preferably without name calling and such.



Thank you...

It's simple really, if you say you are Pakistani first, that means that if you had to pick between Islam and Pakistan, you'd choose Pakistan, and the total opposite is true for those who say they are Muslim first.

If someone genuinely believes in Islam, and still says that they're Pakistani first, then they're insane (since that's literally saying one would rather be from Pakistan and spend an eternity in hell, than not be from Pakistan and spend an eternity in heaven).

If one truly understands Islam and it's values, then they would know that any real Muslim would pick Islam over their nationality any day.

Religion will never ever bind people

Utter nonsense, religion itself has done so multiple times. Pakistan is a prime example, it united various ethnic groups from British India, many of which literally preferred Muslims less related to them culturally/genetically than Kafirs who were/are.

The same thing happened during the Muslim conquests of the region, the conquerors were extremely diverse, with Persians, Arabs, Indians, Afghans, Turks, sub-saharan Africans, etc all working for the common cause of dominating over India and spreading Islam. It's very telling that Muhammad Bin Qasim was an Arab, and Aurangzeb Alamgir had Rajput heritage, yet both fought for the same cause.

 

[TheNoob]

The mentality of COUNTRY FIRST is alot more progressive than the mentality of RELIGION first.

Its like taking a huge bite.
Or a small bite.

Personally,
Religion is part and parcel of you. That can never change, so even if you want to be Pakistani or whatever first.
You will remain whatever religion you believe in.

And has no ideological impact no matter how hard you want to make it seem like.

This question, poses more of a black mail material than anything.
People do it to gain superiority over the other and to either get self validation or an upper hand.


History has also shown us that Nation first societies have grown more powerful and developed than their old religious counterparts.

Anyhoo.


For me, Its Pakistan first before anything else.
And it will never change. Noone can strip me off my religion for saying this because they've no right.

The only one to use this question in modern day pakistan are those molvis who want to keep their social powers over the common man.

 

[Well.wisher]

I'm both

Just say shut up to that idiot who asks what r u first . They're judgemental idioms nd will drag u into useless arguments.

 

[JonAsad]

This question is a libtard trap doesn't make any sense...

When we are born one of the immediate things is done by our father, grand-father or our elders is to recite "Adhan and Iqamah" in our ears, which is a Sunnah.
A declaration and to congratulate the soul that you are born in a Muslim family.
Then after a few weeks, months or in the old days years, our father request or apply for our first Passport. A declaration that you are a Pakistani as your parents are Pakistani too.
I'm thankful to Allah that I'm born in a Muslim family and proud that my parents are Pakistani which makes me a Muslim born in Pakistan.

Religion and your Nationality are two different things.

Your handle is "shirk" , kindly change it..

 

[Wa Muhammada]

When we are born one of the immediate things is done by our father, grand-father or our elders is to recite "Adhan and Iqamah" in our ears, which is a Sunnah.
A declaration and to congratulate the soul that you are born in a Muslim family.
Then after a few weeks, months or in the old days years, our father request or apply for our first Passport. A declaration that you are a Pakistani as your parents are Pakistani too.
I'm thankful to Allah that I'm born in a Muslim family and proud that my parents are Pakistani which makes me a Muslim born in Pakistan.

Religion and your Nationality are two different things.

Not sure if the author of this thread and @Peaceful Civilian and their chums understand this concept

 

[Super Falcon]

Im human than muslim than pakistani

Infact islam itself is a humanity