jhungary
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Seems like my words were lost after my last article “What do you know about war??(hyper-connect thru here)” Seems like some member here still haven’t gotten a full picture of warfare. So today, I am going to go deeper on the issue for war, especially as the title suggested, the insight of killing another human being.
So, what’s its like killing a Human Being?? In war, people kill people. It’s simple ,well, honestly, everybody have its own takes, to begin with, one need to realize killing a person is the worse thing you can do when you lay down the so called “Mortal Crime of Civilization”
You got your lower class stuff like stealing, grand larceny, fault, which pretty much “crimes” that did not impact the victim seriously. Then you got the medium stuff, like assault, arson which hurt people more seriously, but still most of the damage done is reversible. Then you got your serious stuff like accidental homicide/manslaughter and rape/sexual assault. The physical scar and emotional scar is probably there to stay forever. And then finally come to killing a person with intent. That ride on top of all those crime.
People need to understand, when you killed a person, he is not coming back. It is not anything you can takes seriously. Personal vendetta lead to serious consequence, most likely range from life in prison to you actually got to be legally killed yourselves.
However, war is not judged by civil society standard. I always say, battlefield beats everything if you want to talk about Equal Opportunity. Yes, indeed it gives you the right to kill people, but it also gives your enemy the right to kill you. And the chances of you being kill does not discriminated by your genders, ages, ranks or anything. You have the same chance to be killed sitting in the canteen in your base the same as you go out there on patrol.
It’s because this unique opportunity the Military have to train you specifically. There are no possible ways for you to kill another human being without a slight reflection or a pause. And to have a pause in battlefield is dangerous; you can’t just stop and think before you fire.
The way the military taught you is simple, you don’t think, it’s a reflex. You train to react to sound, sight, and sensation. You hear gunfire, you open fire, you see someone shooting at you, you open fire, and you sense that you are in danger, you open fire. You don’t think, you just do, you were drilled a thousand times and it’s imprinted in your memory like that, just like you don’t think before you breathe, or you cover your mouth when you sneeze…
This is how you kill people in battle;
What they don’t tell you is how you deal with it, adrenaline kicks in when you do the act, you don’t feel like you know what were you doing, it’s like you are watching a movie, and looking at yourselves doing the act. It’s not just emotionally detached, but it’s actually totally detached, you won’t remember what you did in the heat of battle. The detail is always hazy and this is how your brain do the work for you, your brain simply blanked out the event so you don’t remember the horrific and traumatic detail, well, at least this is what my psychiatrist told me. Gotta truth a man with a medical degree….
So how you deal with the fact is up to the individual, you can deal with it with self pity or without. Some people will simply pump up your bravado and say it don’t mean nothing. Or you keep it bottled up inside and to a point you broke and you are heading to a fall.
For me, I think you have to have a certain conviction on what you are doing, you have to believe in what you are doing, otherwise if you think too much, you are gonna get crazy over it.
How easy or difficult to kill a man??
Some members think killing people is easy; it’s fun, at least for a particular group of people. Well……
It’s indeed pretty easy to kill a person, just point a gun and pull the trigger, well; it’s easier to say than done. As I said, killing requires a strong conviction, you need to believe what you did was just, that’s the only way you can get over with it. You have to believe that is the right thing to do.
Despite popular belief, there are no “Natural Born Killer” ever existed. Everyone born with a instinct to live, not instinct to kill, human got pushed into killing, one way or another. Either it’s emotional or traumatic experience, especially in war zone.
Sometime it seems like a strange idea to believe when you hear, but people tent to believe what they need to feel his killing is just, this is the only way to go.
Gennadi Osipovich believe KAL flight 007 is an US Spy plane conducting a spy mission on Russia, he do believe today even all evidence point out that this is just a normal flight.
The weapon officer believe that Iranian Flight 655 was incoming to bomb their ship, even though facts point out it is just a civilian planes
Does that believe justified what they did? It may seem strange to you but it does not matter. It may or it may not. I am not impartial enough to judge another human being, I cannot say for sure if that is just or not, but I would not blame them if this is what they think. If they think what they thought make them feel better on committing the act, and then you have got to respect that.
Same things as how the soldier deals with their individual actions. Yeah, people have not seen war will think, well, you go over there, kill some people, and you get out, nothing it does concern you, and the killing have no purpose.. You think like as if we got nothing better to do than just go over there and kill a bunch of people then get out.
For me? I don’t care if the war is just, that’s not for me to decide, fact of being a soldier is to follow order. You follow order and you save life. If soldier are going to think individually on which war is just or which war is not just and scale their action accordingly. Then why you sign up in the first place??
It’s not like in Vietnam or before when you were drafted to fight a war, no one force you to join the military, you sign up to serve your country, you sign up not to participate in your own little political debate.
So what if soldier don’t follow orders?? The whole machine falls apart. The one thing you can count on being a soldier is your man will risk their life and save you, that’s because they know you will do it too. How it suited into the whole command chain thing? Simple, you expect your order given to be following thru to the letter. So you know they are doing their job, that’s why you can depend on them. Say if you expect your subordinate not to follow order. Then how do you know for sure he will do what you say?
It may seems strange that follow order would save life, yes indeed they would also cost live too, but by not doing what you were ordered to do, you cost other's live too. When your other platoon expect you would follow the order and attack a village infact you didn't, the enemy in that village would cut them into pieces.
Hence, in war, order save life.
Was killing really necessary??
Military, unlike law enforcement, where everything is black and white, you either broke the law or you didn't. Of course there are rules on war, but to think that follow the rules would sometime get you killed, so does following order.
Rules of Engagements (RoEs) are established as a rule of war. Which you need to follow. The problem is, it maybe always be the case.
Say for example, RoEs said we need to evacuate an area before calling in artillery. But it's actually a contridiction in term as if you can evacuate the area, you are safe enough to NOT call in artillery, the moment you call in, or want to call in artillery strike, your situation is so dire that you either die right then and there, or you call for arty. So you would not evacuate the area.
Some member here would say would just stop and arrest that person, or shoot them in the leg?
Well, it may work in the movie, where you were sitting in your living room watching "war". Things is a bit different when you are overthere and being one of the grunt on the ground, having a front row seat on what's gonna happen, in real life 3D.
I runover a 12 years old boy (I don't know if he is 12, he look 12 tho), is it necessary to do it? Can i just stop and get out of your vehicle and arrest him or trying to shoot him in the hand or leg and trying to deter him?? Well, it's quite easy to talk about this kind of situation now, sitting in front of a computer, with a cold drink on one side and maybe some snack on the other.
Overthere, it's not. Especially after a few report of Insurgent using child to stop convoy, once thety are stopped then the insurgent will open fire on the lead truck and the trailing truck, and small arms fire envelope within the whole column, a classic ambush. So, will you stop and risk your own life and all the life ono the same convoy to stop and check out if the kids is legit? Or you don't stop and keep going and not risking your live and the lives of others?
Yeah, maybe we should stop for a moment and think about it. The problem is, you are running your convopy 40 mph, you got exactly 10 second to either stop or keep going. Can you tell the boy and say "Hey, can i have a few minute to think should i run you over??" Lol you can't, all decision is instant. Yes, i do not know if that was just a boy standing out there needing help, or would there be 20-30 insurgent waiting for me and ambush me when i pull over on top of a possible mine field.
I just know this, the boy would have try to evade the convoy if we don't stop. Nobody is that stupid and stand in the middle of the road and expect cars, trucks that runs by would stop. If you can see they are not going to stop, you move over and avoid being crush by the car and truck. was it what you do back in anywhere? OR you meant to tell me you expect you are stronger than a tuck and it must stop?
Killing is an essential part of war, only by killing that person you would make him permanently stop. Shot him in the leg, he can still shoot, shot him in the hand, he can still charge you. You know, bullet is a funny thing, the pointy tips would make sure the bullet would penetrate your flash and cut off a few nerve. Strange as you may see, at first, when you got shot, you don't feel anything.
So you tell me, would you go and try to risk your live and everybody else and arrest them, or you just kill them??
Pain from killing.
Ok, you have all your reason, you have all the fact, does that mean you can survive your guilt with conviction alone?? No. My father was a Navy Corpsman in Nam, which is actually a medic. He worked in the hosptial the whole tour without firing a shot. His job is to save life. But you could not always save them all..
My job, on the other hand was to kill. While he got his pain when he could not save a life, i got my own when i take one. It's not like you are dropping bombs 4000 fts above ground. Where you don't got to see their face. when you are an infantry man, and you kills, that's always be upclose and personnal, soemtime even messy.
My father once said he will always remember the face of those he could not save, and i will always remember the face that i take them away from their parent, wife/husband and sibling. Adrenaline is an interesting thing, when you are pumped with it, it takes over your central nervous system, to give you the extra juice you need to finish your job, or keep you alive. Once it's gone, you will be started to get hit by a strange feeling. That you don't exactly what you have done.....
Then the feeling will start to come back stronger, seems like the more you want to forget, the more the brain trrying to remind you. of what you just did.
I guess comparing the pain from killing and the pain from losing is the same as people compare women giving birth and men got kicks in the nuts. Both arguably the most painful sensation, but no-one can experience both. Maybe some doctor trying to kill someone, i don't know.
So, come back to the question. What do feel to take a person's life?
Well, let's just say this, if you had ever killed a man, not for pleasure, not for fun, and not for anything else, but for necessity, then you would know how it feel.
If not? I hope you never have to find out
@Neptune @Thəorətic Muslim @Slav Defence @Aeronaut @DESERT FIGHTER @Ravi Nair @T-123456
@Alpha1 @kbd-raaf @Armstrong
@FaujHistorian
@jaibi
So, what’s its like killing a Human Being?? In war, people kill people. It’s simple ,well, honestly, everybody have its own takes, to begin with, one need to realize killing a person is the worse thing you can do when you lay down the so called “Mortal Crime of Civilization”
You got your lower class stuff like stealing, grand larceny, fault, which pretty much “crimes” that did not impact the victim seriously. Then you got the medium stuff, like assault, arson which hurt people more seriously, but still most of the damage done is reversible. Then you got your serious stuff like accidental homicide/manslaughter and rape/sexual assault. The physical scar and emotional scar is probably there to stay forever. And then finally come to killing a person with intent. That ride on top of all those crime.
People need to understand, when you killed a person, he is not coming back. It is not anything you can takes seriously. Personal vendetta lead to serious consequence, most likely range from life in prison to you actually got to be legally killed yourselves.
However, war is not judged by civil society standard. I always say, battlefield beats everything if you want to talk about Equal Opportunity. Yes, indeed it gives you the right to kill people, but it also gives your enemy the right to kill you. And the chances of you being kill does not discriminated by your genders, ages, ranks or anything. You have the same chance to be killed sitting in the canteen in your base the same as you go out there on patrol.
It’s because this unique opportunity the Military have to train you specifically. There are no possible ways for you to kill another human being without a slight reflection or a pause. And to have a pause in battlefield is dangerous; you can’t just stop and think before you fire.
The way the military taught you is simple, you don’t think, it’s a reflex. You train to react to sound, sight, and sensation. You hear gunfire, you open fire, you see someone shooting at you, you open fire, and you sense that you are in danger, you open fire. You don’t think, you just do, you were drilled a thousand times and it’s imprinted in your memory like that, just like you don’t think before you breathe, or you cover your mouth when you sneeze…
This is how you kill people in battle;
What they don’t tell you is how you deal with it, adrenaline kicks in when you do the act, you don’t feel like you know what were you doing, it’s like you are watching a movie, and looking at yourselves doing the act. It’s not just emotionally detached, but it’s actually totally detached, you won’t remember what you did in the heat of battle. The detail is always hazy and this is how your brain do the work for you, your brain simply blanked out the event so you don’t remember the horrific and traumatic detail, well, at least this is what my psychiatrist told me. Gotta truth a man with a medical degree….
So how you deal with the fact is up to the individual, you can deal with it with self pity or without. Some people will simply pump up your bravado and say it don’t mean nothing. Or you keep it bottled up inside and to a point you broke and you are heading to a fall.
For me, I think you have to have a certain conviction on what you are doing, you have to believe in what you are doing, otherwise if you think too much, you are gonna get crazy over it.
How easy or difficult to kill a man??
Some members think killing people is easy; it’s fun, at least for a particular group of people. Well……
It’s indeed pretty easy to kill a person, just point a gun and pull the trigger, well; it’s easier to say than done. As I said, killing requires a strong conviction, you need to believe what you did was just, that’s the only way you can get over with it. You have to believe that is the right thing to do.
Despite popular belief, there are no “Natural Born Killer” ever existed. Everyone born with a instinct to live, not instinct to kill, human got pushed into killing, one way or another. Either it’s emotional or traumatic experience, especially in war zone.
Sometime it seems like a strange idea to believe when you hear, but people tent to believe what they need to feel his killing is just, this is the only way to go.
Gennadi Osipovich believe KAL flight 007 is an US Spy plane conducting a spy mission on Russia, he do believe today even all evidence point out that this is just a normal flight.
The weapon officer believe that Iranian Flight 655 was incoming to bomb their ship, even though facts point out it is just a civilian planes
Does that believe justified what they did? It may seem strange to you but it does not matter. It may or it may not. I am not impartial enough to judge another human being, I cannot say for sure if that is just or not, but I would not blame them if this is what they think. If they think what they thought make them feel better on committing the act, and then you have got to respect that.
Same things as how the soldier deals with their individual actions. Yeah, people have not seen war will think, well, you go over there, kill some people, and you get out, nothing it does concern you, and the killing have no purpose.. You think like as if we got nothing better to do than just go over there and kill a bunch of people then get out.
For me? I don’t care if the war is just, that’s not for me to decide, fact of being a soldier is to follow order. You follow order and you save life. If soldier are going to think individually on which war is just or which war is not just and scale their action accordingly. Then why you sign up in the first place??
It’s not like in Vietnam or before when you were drafted to fight a war, no one force you to join the military, you sign up to serve your country, you sign up not to participate in your own little political debate.
So what if soldier don’t follow orders?? The whole machine falls apart. The one thing you can count on being a soldier is your man will risk their life and save you, that’s because they know you will do it too. How it suited into the whole command chain thing? Simple, you expect your order given to be following thru to the letter. So you know they are doing their job, that’s why you can depend on them. Say if you expect your subordinate not to follow order. Then how do you know for sure he will do what you say?
It may seems strange that follow order would save life, yes indeed they would also cost live too, but by not doing what you were ordered to do, you cost other's live too. When your other platoon expect you would follow the order and attack a village infact you didn't, the enemy in that village would cut them into pieces.
Hence, in war, order save life.
Was killing really necessary??
Military, unlike law enforcement, where everything is black and white, you either broke the law or you didn't. Of course there are rules on war, but to think that follow the rules would sometime get you killed, so does following order.
Rules of Engagements (RoEs) are established as a rule of war. Which you need to follow. The problem is, it maybe always be the case.
Say for example, RoEs said we need to evacuate an area before calling in artillery. But it's actually a contridiction in term as if you can evacuate the area, you are safe enough to NOT call in artillery, the moment you call in, or want to call in artillery strike, your situation is so dire that you either die right then and there, or you call for arty. So you would not evacuate the area.
Some member here would say would just stop and arrest that person, or shoot them in the leg?
Well, it may work in the movie, where you were sitting in your living room watching "war". Things is a bit different when you are overthere and being one of the grunt on the ground, having a front row seat on what's gonna happen, in real life 3D.
I runover a 12 years old boy (I don't know if he is 12, he look 12 tho), is it necessary to do it? Can i just stop and get out of your vehicle and arrest him or trying to shoot him in the hand or leg and trying to deter him?? Well, it's quite easy to talk about this kind of situation now, sitting in front of a computer, with a cold drink on one side and maybe some snack on the other.
Overthere, it's not. Especially after a few report of Insurgent using child to stop convoy, once thety are stopped then the insurgent will open fire on the lead truck and the trailing truck, and small arms fire envelope within the whole column, a classic ambush. So, will you stop and risk your own life and all the life ono the same convoy to stop and check out if the kids is legit? Or you don't stop and keep going and not risking your live and the lives of others?
Yeah, maybe we should stop for a moment and think about it. The problem is, you are running your convopy 40 mph, you got exactly 10 second to either stop or keep going. Can you tell the boy and say "Hey, can i have a few minute to think should i run you over??" Lol you can't, all decision is instant. Yes, i do not know if that was just a boy standing out there needing help, or would there be 20-30 insurgent waiting for me and ambush me when i pull over on top of a possible mine field.
I just know this, the boy would have try to evade the convoy if we don't stop. Nobody is that stupid and stand in the middle of the road and expect cars, trucks that runs by would stop. If you can see they are not going to stop, you move over and avoid being crush by the car and truck. was it what you do back in anywhere? OR you meant to tell me you expect you are stronger than a tuck and it must stop?
Killing is an essential part of war, only by killing that person you would make him permanently stop. Shot him in the leg, he can still shoot, shot him in the hand, he can still charge you. You know, bullet is a funny thing, the pointy tips would make sure the bullet would penetrate your flash and cut off a few nerve. Strange as you may see, at first, when you got shot, you don't feel anything.
So you tell me, would you go and try to risk your live and everybody else and arrest them, or you just kill them??
Pain from killing.
Ok, you have all your reason, you have all the fact, does that mean you can survive your guilt with conviction alone?? No. My father was a Navy Corpsman in Nam, which is actually a medic. He worked in the hosptial the whole tour without firing a shot. His job is to save life. But you could not always save them all..
My job, on the other hand was to kill. While he got his pain when he could not save a life, i got my own when i take one. It's not like you are dropping bombs 4000 fts above ground. Where you don't got to see their face. when you are an infantry man, and you kills, that's always be upclose and personnal, soemtime even messy.
My father once said he will always remember the face of those he could not save, and i will always remember the face that i take them away from their parent, wife/husband and sibling. Adrenaline is an interesting thing, when you are pumped with it, it takes over your central nervous system, to give you the extra juice you need to finish your job, or keep you alive. Once it's gone, you will be started to get hit by a strange feeling. That you don't exactly what you have done.....
Then the feeling will start to come back stronger, seems like the more you want to forget, the more the brain trrying to remind you. of what you just did.
I guess comparing the pain from killing and the pain from losing is the same as people compare women giving birth and men got kicks in the nuts. Both arguably the most painful sensation, but no-one can experience both. Maybe some doctor trying to kill someone, i don't know.
So, come back to the question. What do feel to take a person's life?
Well, let's just say this, if you had ever killed a man, not for pleasure, not for fun, and not for anything else, but for necessity, then you would know how it feel.
If not? I hope you never have to find out
@Neptune @Thəorətic Muslim @Slav Defence @Aeronaut @DESERT FIGHTER @Ravi Nair @T-123456
@Alpha1 @kbd-raaf @Armstrong
@FaujHistorian
@jaibi
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