What do Chinese think of Pakistan?

[rott]

Apparently, my wife who had gone to study in China thinks that many citizens favors Pakistan and Pakistanis. That was a real life experience for her. But when she had asked about India, it turned out negatively.
So yes, I'll trust my wife's judgment any day over some unknown false flagger.

I remember being 19 years old and taking my usual commute to university. I sat down in the same seat every day, I'm a man of habits. During my journey, the train stopped at Finchly and a very well dressed Chinese man got on. He sat opposite me, and I looked up and said hello, and he replied with a smile and hello. There was no one else on the train. He took out some paperwork and began to work and from time to time would look up to see what I was reading. I had in my hand a copy of the Economist, and Pakistan was on the cover, this was the year of the Kargil war. His eye caught mine and he asked where my ancestry was from. I replied Pakistan and he gave me a huge smile.

He put down his paperwork and introduced himself as an employee from the Chinese UK diplomatic mission, showing his ID to prove his credtionals. I could only then describe what is the single best discussion I ever had regarding Pakistan/Chinese relations. The man oozed enthusiasm and sounded just like one of very own PDF posters. We talked about the special times the two countries have stood side by side and how important it was that the youth are educated about our ties, he emphasised this point strongly as I was young at the time. His stop came and he bid me farewell, leaving his card, making me promise that if I was ever in China I would look him up. His posting was coming to an end as well.

It was this chance meeting that got me reading into the close Iron ties the two have, and as a consequence posting on forums.

Now for my visit to China, I met thousands of Chinese, who crossed wealth, political, and social lines and virtually every one was immensely enthusiastic about the realtionship. I went during the year of the trade expo, and stood with a friend of mine who held a Pakistani flag. I can tell you now the line of Chinese wanting to take their picture with us was well over 100 and I have the pictures to prove it.This affection streched to being discounted in eating places, to warm welcomes at entertainment spots, to just being treated so well by hotel staff.

Now some may say "oh but your'e a third generation British Pakistani who speaks the Queen's english ," hence the reception. But native Pakistanis who have visited have reported the same.
With the large influx of young Chinese students to London, many of whom I have had the pleasure to educate, I was astonished at how many knew about how close China and Pakistan are, and this was something unheard of 10 years ago.

This is what I am talking about.
Thanks bro.

many chinese cannot tell the difference between the two. you guys look alike and sound alike. we used to import movies from both countries. it was very hard to remember which country made which movie. some of the negative impression on pakistan may be due to the negative impression on india.

for those who can tell the difference, I think the impression on pakistan is far more favorable.

True, but that's the reason they ask. Also, most people cannot tell the difference between Chinese, Koreans or Japanese - they ask.
AFAIK, when a Chinese hears that someone is from Pakistan and not from India, the whole tone changes. It's just because Pakistanis see China as a friend and vice versa. It's just natural to feel comfortable in the aisle of a friend than a foe.

 

[schoolboy]

@Kaptaan

Thanks for your reply. You omit two items that IMO have to be addressed before your idea of developing soft power, attracting tourists in general and chinese in particular can succeed.

The first is security. The never-out-of-fashion policy by successive Pakistani leaders to encourage, nurture, and direct groups that use terror as a means of spreading their will [for a whole range of foreign policy goals - from encouraging Kashmiri separatism to distracting the Indian army] continues to extract the heaviest cost on Pakistan - both materially in money and opportunity cost, as well as in reputation. It has not helped that these groups are also theocratic - and the combination of Islam and violence (along with the difficulty of not only controlling these groups). More than anything else it has created an environment where use of extra-legal violence is the new normal - by not just known terrorists but also anyone who has a cause - be it religious, political or economic. Bit like how the excessive use of bandhs in parts of India as originally a political protest spread to the use of a bandh for any protest - and it has been a difficult clawback from the age when bandhs were considered commonplace. Even as a military / foreign policy the [use terrorist] group policy has not been successful and all it has done is to militarize the region.

The second is the prevailing attitude of rejection of the indigenous past in favour of a historical account that revolves around the Arab / Afghan / Turkish / Mongoloid invasion of the subcontinent. Take your example regarding Taxila and Gandhara. What chance is there for publicizing of that culture in a society that obsesses itself with (or successors of) Mahmud of Ghazni - who ended the Gandhara Kingdom of antiquity. There are similar archaeological sites in present Pakistan linked to the Nandas, Mauryas, Ashoka, the Guptas, the Shahis, etc. that no one seems to know about - again, possibly due to the same reason. The irony is that except a very small number (chiefly Mohammed bin Qasim) none of the belligerents fought in the name of Islam - and in most cases fought other established also-Islamic dynasties. The result, (at least what I perceive indirectly) seems to be, at best, a complete apathy towards pre-Islamic history and at worst hostility. Another victim of this is the Indus Valley Civilization - I posted somewhere else on PDF recently about it.

If these are resolved, tourism and curiosity is bound to follow, not simply from China - but likely an invasion of middle class Indians wanting a 'foreign' holiday closer to home . Heck, I spend a few minutes each week wondering if there's a way to get myself invited for something in Karachi so I can skip to Mohenjodaro for a couple of days.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Thanks for your reply.

Not problem.

The first is security. The never-out-of-fashion policy by successive Pakistani leaders to encourage, nurture, and direct groups that use terror as a means of spreading their will [for a whole range of foreign policy goals - from encouraging Kashmiri separatism to distracting the Indian army] continues to extract the heaviest cost on Pakistan

There is some truth to this but if I was going to apportion the blame 1% would go to Kashmir. 90% is by product of the Pakistan involvement in the Afghan jihad in conjunction with USA/Saudia against Soviet Union. The 2001 US invasion created the instability that flowed over into Pakistan. If you look at the primary areas of instability in Pakistan they are the districts on the Afghan border. On the contrary districts along LOC are havens of peace besides the LOC firing.

The second is the prevailing attitude of rejection of the indigenous past in favour of a historical account that revolves around the Arab / Afghan / Turkish / Mongoloid invasion

There has been no rejection of the indigenous past. All the invasions became 'indigenized' as they formed another layer in the sediment of history in Pakistan like it happens in all lands. No,. country is 'pure' over the even the last 2,000 years. Is your Hindi as seen on Bollywood not heavily infused with Persian. Turkish and words with Muslim artifacts like clothing styles pr music influences? The Taj Mahal in India that is a major Indian attraction is hardly indigenous but predominantly of Muslim influences and forces that you so avidly put down in Pakistan.

So, no I don't agree with your claim that we have rejected it - but yes we have not given enough coverage to our past. Too much attention has been given to post Islamic period and not enough to pre Islamic period. However all along interest has been for the pre-Islamic but not enough emphasis was given. That is slowly changing as the ship of the state starts finding it's moorings. With archeology a provincial subject since 2008 - provinces have taken to their unique heritage in a big way and lot of exciting work is being done. Although running on tight budgets not everything can be covered by the enthusiastic provincial archeology departments.

 

[ZY-CN-CA]

just try yourself--->
open one chinese webside, search "巴基斯坦"(PK).you can use google translate and you can see .99% is good,1% bad (anti-China forces) 。In the Chinese network, there are many anti-China forces articles.
for example : like this. so I am sure your see the 1% (anti-China forces) article。

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

China Outbound Tourism in 2016



The growth of China Outbound Tourism slowed down in 2016. The outbound tourists reached 59.03 million in the first half of the year, which witnessed an increase of 4.3% over the same period of 2015. China has become the top tourist source country of many countries such as Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Maldives, Russia, and United Kingdom.

Where did Chinese tourists go?
The popular destinations among Chinese outbound tourists were mainly nearby Asian countries. There are three reasons for this:

it is a relatively short journey and won’t cost too much;

short-distance trip needs shorter time and does not require a long holiday;

the recent frequent terrorist attacks happened in Europe make many tourists change their way to more safer Asian countries.(Chinese tourists are visiting Asian countries more often only because of fearing for their own lives due to increased terrorists attacks in European countries)

The top 7 outbound tourism countries were Thailand, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, United States and Indonesia. By end of April, Chinese mainland tourists to Thailand have been up to 3.44 million, which accounted for 27% of the total; this witnessed an increase of 27% over the same period of 2015. In the first half of 2016, outbound tourists to Japan were up to 3.0766 million which accounted for 26.26% and it increased by 41.2%.

The top ten attraction sites among Chinese outbound tourists are as follows: Phuket, Grand Palace, Wat Phra Kaeo, Gyeongbok Gung, Lotte World, Sensōji, Myeong-dong, Mt Fuji, Dual Bridges Before Imperial Place, and Osaka Castle Park.

What did Chinese tourists do？
Compared with the previous tourism of sleeping in the car, go shopping and taking photos after getting off, Chinese tourists today would rather spend more time and money entertaining themselves. They were prone to pursue good quality tours such as living better, eating better, seeking more fun and spending more time in exploring attraction sites; they were more willing to experience the daily life of the locals and know more about local customs and cultures. In the first half of 2016, the average duration of stay in each destination was 2.3 days, 0.4 day more than the same period of 2015.

Who was the main force in China outbound tourism?
In the first half of 2016, female was the main force in outbound tourism. They accounted for about 58%, up to 34.394 million. The other 42% are male, about 24.7926 million.

Among all tourists, 80’s and 90’s played an important role in outbound tourism. 24% of outbound tourists, 14.1672 million, aged between 30 and 39 years old; and 20% of them, 11.806 million, aged between 20 and 29 years old.

Package tour was still the mainstream, but independent tour increased a lot
Currently, over 50% of Chinese outbound tourists still travel in group organized by travel agencies. It is mainly because many tourists travel abroad for the first time and are lack of experience; language barrier is also a main reason. Choosing tours offered by agencies can save trouble and time, as they help apply for visas, make travel plan and book tickets and accommodation, etc. According to travel agencies, the 10 hottest tourist destinations are Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, France, Italy, Switzerland, Philippines, Singapore, and Vietnam.

Meanwhile, more and more tourists like independent tours because they are more flexible; they can travel freely without any restrictions. Tourists can make their own travel itinerary and go where they want to go. In the first half of 2016, the most popular destinations for independent travelers are Thailand, Maldives, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, United States, Singapore, Mauritius, Vietnam and Malaysia.

A predicted appreciation of 3.9% in second half of 2016
The predicted outbound tourist number will be about 62 million in the second half of 2016, which may show an increase of 3.9%.

Data source: China National Tourism Administration

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/tourism/2016statistics/outbound.htm









US and Japan are China's enemy - yet it is in the top 7 destination for Chinese tourists.

Pakistan is China's ally- yet it is not even in the top 7.

Also, you already said 'Western people'.
Chinese tourists do not have the same adventurous mindset of Westerners. When Chinese tourists visit foreign lands, they tend to go to globalised and liberal places for a change in experience.

Food for thought

Think about the 'change in experience' factor.

Singapore, just like all Chinese societies(except maybe Hongkong)- are always authoritative, as in we cannot say what we like, we cannot do this, we cannot do that- politically.

totally no freedom of expression, not to mention SG is already a democratic country nominally.

Im not gonna spend my money on going to any country that restricts my behavior,(not talking about unruly types) speech, attire or whatsoever. I want to be able to eat and buy whatever i want.

I do not have to think hard when i pondered about the question on which country would i go to if i needed a holiday from the stresses of life. In fact, it's almost the same as those in the top 7 list above.



*on top Asian destinations for Chinese tourist- one can see they are almost always countries that are officially non-theocratic, Confucianist or those with significant Chinese populations. In other words, Chinese tourists tend to go to places in Asia where they share a cultural affinity with its people.

 

[Dash]

I was going to reply regarding tourism but zaki already did... and I agree with him...
its better we get identity of poster correct, so that we will avoid all the posts that are going to be off topic(blaming that poster)
I mean its pretty easy for a chinese member to catch, most Indians dont know chinese and google translate is not sophisticated.

For a moment if we assume the poster was an Indian, I will say despite all the literature he wrote this one was non Indian.

"Creating an army of 20000 Tibetian rebels"

 

[livingdead]

For a moment if we assume the poster was an Indian, I will say despite all the literature he wrote this one was non Indian.

"Creating an army of 20000 Tibetian rebels"

I know the guy is non-indian.. lol.... anyway I thought its another guy from pdf.. did not read the post properly.

 

[Dash]

I know the guy is non-indian.. lol.... anyway I thought its another guy from pdf.. did not read the post properly.

That settles the fear of kaptan Sahib then. I guess he figured it out first but left rest to our Pakistanis to judge anc follow his lead in ambiguity.

Jokes apart.

 

[schoolboy]

1% would go to Kashmir. 90% is by product of the Pakistan involvement in the Afghan jihad in conjunction with USA/Saudia against Soviet Union

That's debatable. Afghan was the test lab where Pakistani leadership realised the apparent benefits of well-funded irregulars taking on conventional forces, with objective to harass rather than defeat. This was the early to mid 80s. After that war, Zia transplanted this model onto Kashmir - setting events for the first insurgency - beginning 1989 - and one where he was not restricted or kept in check by other power centres (such as the US in Afghan). The narrative that these groups are getting out of control is part of the story. The more serious harm is the legitimisation of their methods - which means today any group wishing to perpetrate violence will have fewer moral compulsions in doing so, knowing that the state has justified these methods in the past.

There has been no rejection of the indigenous past. All the invasions became 'indigenized' as they formed another layer in the sediment of history in Pakistan like it happens in all lands. No,. country is 'pure' over the even the last 2,000 years. Is your Hindi as seen on Bollywood not heavily infused with Persian. Turkish and words with Muslim artifacts like clothing styles pr music influences? The Taj Mahal in India that is a major Indian attraction is hardly indigenous but predominantly of Muslim influences and forces that you so avidly put down in Pakistan.

I erred in my post by using 'indigenised' somewhat interchangeably with 'pre-Islamic'. My intention was to draw attention to the over 1500+ years of rich, largely authenticated pre-Islamic history of the subcontinent (shared by both India and Pakistan).

You are a rare Pakistani to speak admiringly of Gandhara and Taxila - an uncommon view. How many of the posters on PDF from Pakistan consider Ashoka (for example) part of their heritage - or the Mauryas despite modern pakistan forming substantial parts of their kingdom? In Indian secondary schools, history curriculum has chapters on Indus Valley, Mauryas, Ashoka, Guptas, Khiljis, Tughlaqs, Mughals and British - I'm curious to know what a class 8 history textbook in Pakistan is like.

 

[waz]

Well, if you count one people stand up and do cheering as standing ovation...

Let me put it this way, it's safe to say Pakistan team got the most standing ovation except our home team, satisfied?

This says it all. The Pakistani team received a huge ovation. I remember watching it on TV and the almighty roar that went up was insane.

Here is the video.

Only Taiwan i.e. China's ethnic kin received just as big welcome.

 

[Shotgunner51]

I think as we get more stable and peaceful regarding security, more tourists, including Chinese, will come to Pakistan...

Pakistan do suffers image problem in the world due to propaganda of west, add it with fukin organized propaganda against Muslims in general after 9/11, which caused misconceptions in general public regarding Muslim societies.

I hope CPEC will bring Pakistanis and Chinese more close towards each other, minimizing all misconceptions/stereotypes we do have regarding each other.

Your opinion, guys, regarding topic...

@Rasengan @Taimoor Khan @Shotgunner51 @jkroo @Dungeness

Thanks for tagging! Sorry for late reply, I just got back from a long Chinese New Year holiday.

What Chinese think of Pakistani people? "两肋插刀", "仗义", it's hard to translate but let me try: A man who can do anything for his friend, even sacrifice oneself; Loyal to friends; Chivalrous; Big-hearted; In general, most friendly and trustworthy people in the world.

About Chinese tourists. Families may go 1-2 overseas trips each year, hence they prioritize their wish list, say go Japan for shopping, Thailand for sunshine & beaches, hangout in cafes in downtown Paris, etc. Competition is fierce, Pakistan tourism authority might have to promote more to in order to pull tourists. Note that how Chinese view the nation doesn't necessarily relate to their holiday plans, Japan and Pakistan are two examples. I agree with you there's also a media issue, security concern may push some potential tourists away.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Why I m suspecting you're Indian? @Jungibaaz @waz

Well spotted once again, the thread in which you mentioned me for another suspicious poster also turned out to be Indian. You've got a knack for this.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Well spotted once again, the thread in which you mentioned me for another suspicious poster also turned out to be Indian. You've got a knack for this.

Thanks, sir.......Those Indians must be hating me...

 

[terranMarine]

What do Chinese think of Pakistan? Well Pakistan is China's worst enemy, we hate those damn Pakistani people. They keep calling us copy cats, spreading lies of China crashing, making fun of our cheap military hardware because they believe they are cheap knock offs of Russian Military Hardware, some even laughed at our rusty Aircraft Carrier we towed back from Ukraine. They are convinced China is full of Ghost cities, our One Child Policy will be disastrous for China's economy. This is making China extremely angry so as a result we are pointing our most badass nuclear capabilities DF-5C, DF-41, JL-2 at our despicable neighbor PAKISTAN.



"Confused - That's India."

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

What do Chinese think of Pakistan? Well Pakistan is China's worst enemy, we hate those damn Pakistani people. They keep calling us copy cats, spreading lies of China crashing, making fun of our cheap military hardware because they believe they are cheap knock offs of Russian Military Hardware, some even laughed at our rusty Aircraft Carrier we towed back from Ukraine. They are convinced China is full of Ghost cities, our One Child Policy will be disastrous for China's economy. This is making China extremely angry so as a result we are pointing our most badass nuclear capabilities DF-5C, DF-41, JL-2 at our despicable neighbor PAKISTAN.



"Confused - That's India."

Here in Greater Poland I don't know anyone who is very pro Murrika. Most people are indifferent. Just like most people are neutral about Russia. I see Murikka as bigger threat to Poland than Russia. Murikkans in June 2016 killed Polish civilian and wounded another near Świętoszów (source). Yankee corporate media are silent about this.
It's a false yankee clichee that Poles are pro Murrika. Most Poles I know are indifferent.

You polish folks are great...U helped us in our space program...There is also been said that some Polish people are buried in Karachi, Pakistan...

Following the Soviet invasion of Poland, hundreds of thousands of Poles were deported to Soviet labor camps. Between 1942-1945 some 3,000 refugees were given refuge in Karachi.[8] In memory of the 58 Polish citizens who died in Karachi in the 1940s, a memorial has been erected by the Polish government.[9] It lists the names of all 58 individuals.[9]

The most prominent Pole buried in the cemetery is Air Commodore Władysław Turowicz who played a key role in Pakistan's aviation and aerospace industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gora_Qabaristan,_Karachi

https://thekarachiwalla.com/2011/09/06/city-secret-polish-connection/

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistans-polish-patriot.453030/