What Can Pakistan Learn from the Chinese Miracle

[Indus Pakistan]

This was the most backwards period for China

Speak with the Chinese and find out. They were busy laying the future China. They sacrificed for a better future. Entire Chinese culture was modernised. It's like farmer working on his field. He knows all that hard work will pay in the future when the crops ripen.

Very valid point and sharp in depth insight, the west always demonizes Mao and all his heavy handed policies, but everyone else except for the Chinese people fails to understand how vital Mao's reform was in transforming the whole structure of the Chinese society. A short term pain for long term development.

Why India can never have long term meaningful development and growth? cause India hasn't had a Mao appeared in its history to fundementily change the course and the fate of a massive nation.

Thank you my friend. Most Chinese will not correct the Pakistani's. As a friend of Pakistan let me give you the real problem with the country.

Imagine in China the old order refused toi change with Mao's reforms. They refused toi emancipate women, relegated female education, insisted on male patriarchy where the women remined at home. They insisted old traditions even if not conductive to modern world are kept alive. They insisted religion and religious preachers have major influence on society who in turn oppose any reforms.

Tell me how far would Mao have got or China? The old, failed order that made China a victim of European aggression would have remained intact. This is story of Pakistan where supersition, old feudal structures, old traditions rule supreme and anything remotely new or western is seen as a threat.

 

[Hiptullha]

Entire Chinese culture was modernised

Not with the cultural revolution.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Not with the cultural revolution.

Please read @beijingwalker post.


the west always demonizes Mao and all his heavy handed policies, but everyone else except for the Chinese people fails to understand how vital Mao's reform was in transforming the whole structure of the Chinese society. A short term pain for long term development.

Why India can never have long term meaningful development and growth? cause India hasn't had a Mao appeared in its history to fundementily change the course and the fate of a massive nation.

Very valid point and sharp in depth insight, the west always demonizes Mao and all his heavy handed policies, but everyone else except for the Chinese people fails to understand how vital Mao's reform was in transforming the whole structure of the Chinese society. A short term pain for long term development.

Why India can never have long term meaningful development and growth? cause India hasn't had a Mao appeared in its history to fundementily change the course and the fate of a massive nation.

 

[Hiptullha]

Please read @beijingwalker post.


the west always demonizes Mao and all his heavy handed policies, but everyone else except for the Chinese people fails to understand how vital Mao's reform was in transforming the whole structure of the Chinese society. A short term pain for long term development.

Why India can never have long term meaningful development and growth? cause India hasn't had a Mao appeared in its history to fundementily change the course and the fate of a massive nation.

It's not true lol culture is always downstream from economics, not the other way around. Other East Asian countries were able to develop without Cultural Revolution type policies. Pakis want to be jazbati and import the worst excesses instead of going for the sensible ones which require patience and plannings.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It's not true lol culture

Why not ask other Chinese here and watch their replies.

Other East Asian countries were able to develop without Cultural Revolution type policies.

All of them went through their own variation of cultural revolutions.

The Meiji Restoration (明治維新, Meiji Ishin), referred to at the time as the Honorable Restoration (御一新, Goisshin), and also known as the Meiji Renovation, Revolution, Reform, or Renewal, 1868

The Restoration led to enormous changes in Japan's political and social structure and spanned both the late Edo period (often called the Bakumatsu) and the beginning of the Meiji era. During the Restoration, Japan rapidly industrialized and adopted Western ideas and production methods.

 

[Hiptullha]

Why not ask other Chinese here and watch their replies.

The Chinese here have weird ideological allegiances with the CPC. All the older Chinese I know irl are slightly conservative who would never endorse all of Mao's policies. Even the CPC doesn't fully endorse the Cultural Revolution at this point.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The Chinese

Never mind. You are actually example of the problem. By the way Japan also went through such "reformation" before even China.

 

[El Sidd]

Geography.

China had no existential threat from outside and could focus internally with massive reforms every 25 years.

The ever changing political realities of a security state leaves little maneuvering in reforming infrastructure and focused economic development.

Pakistan lost a whole eastern wing to war and then advancing war on western front ensured that for the next 50 years there would exist a deficit of trust among institutions left uninformed from colonial governance which entirely focuses on holding onto the territory while exploiting the wealth for a dedicated citizen class.

Put all this in the equation and you would be amazed at the miracle that is Pakistan.

 

[beijingwalker]

It's not true lol culture is always downstream from economics, not the other way around. Other East Asian countries were able to develop without Cultural Revolution type policies. Pakis want to be jazbati and import the worst excesses instead of going for the sensible ones which require patience and plannings.

Small countries can develop fast without an ovehaul of its cultural and social structure, they don't have to comprehensively develop their economy all across board in every sector. but big nations don't have this luxury, when China is in trouble, no one can help us, our only savior will be ourselves, we always know this.

The Chinese here have weird ideological allegiances with the CPC. All the older Chinese I know irl are slightly conservative who would never endorse all of Mao's policies. Even the CPC doesn't fully endorse the Cultural Revolution at this point.

We don't 100% endorse the Cultural Revolution either, but just try to look at it from different perspectives.

 

[redtom]

Why not ask other Chinese here and watch their replies.
All of them went through their own variation of cultural revolutions.

The Meiji Restoration (明治維新, Meiji Ishin), referred to at the time as the Honorable Restoration (御一新, Goisshin), and also known as the Meiji Renovation, Revolution, Reform, or Renewal, 1868

The Restoration led to enormous changes in Japan's political and social structure and spanned both the late Edo period (often called the Bakumatsu) and the beginning of the Meiji era. During the Restoration, Japan rapidly industrialized and adopted Western ideas and production methods.

I can prove your point. Mao is the greatest man in China since AD.

Simply put, Mao’s achievements made 99% of Chinese people truly become human beings, rather than the remaining 1% of property. And he will therefore be opposed forever by the remaining 1%.

 

[beijingwalker]

All the older Chinese I know irl are slightly conservative who would never endorse all of Mao's policies.

You are very wrong on this point, I don't know where you met these "older" Chinese, but at least in the Chinese mainland, older generations love and respect Mao a lot. and of course, no one endorses all of Mao's policies, me neither.

 

[Imran Khan]

we can learn make 1 baby we have better life .

 

[Indus Pakistan]

China had no existential threat from outside and could focus internally with massive reforms every 25 years.

No threats? You sure about that? China did not have at least three wars Within 5 years of establishment of China she was involved in a full scale war against USA and the West in Korea and lost possibly half a million men. She then had a full scale war with India in 1962. No idea where you get your history from.


920,000 Chinese

According to the American estimates, about 920,000 Chinese soldiers had been killed or wounded during the war. After they add North Korea's casualties to this number, the Americans believed that the Chinese and North Koreans suffered a total of 1.42 to 1.5 million casualties.
Korean War 1952. Chinese attack Americans.

 

[Hiptullha]

You are actually example of the problem.

most of the developing world has gone through leaders trying to apply the Bolshevik and Red Guard model in their country and they've come out as failing states. you're on the completely wrong path

Small countries can develop fast without an ovehaul of its cultural and social structure, they don't have to comprehensively develop their economy all across board in every sector.

the fact that china has still retained much of its old culture and is in fact seeing a revival shows that its culture was never successfully overhauled and that china didn't need to overhaul it in the first place to develop as an economy.

We don't 100% endorse the Cultural Revolution either, but just try to look at it from different perspectives.

i find more unsympathetic accounts than ones which look at the cultural revolution. this isn't exclusive to china because the USSR went through this same process. stalin was able to mobilize the USSR by toning down the deranged cultural policies of the bolsheviks. afghans tried to do the same thing in the 1970s and the USSR itself was trying to convince their leaders to stop forcing their views on the people.

I don't know where you met these "older" Chinese,

I'm in canada lol my neighbourhood is pretty much chinese

older generations love and respect Mao a lot.

not agreement. i can guarantee most people you know are further to the right than the average maoist in mid 20th century china

 

[Dungeness]

not agreement. i can guarantee most people you know are further to the right than the average maoist in mid 20th century china

Guarantee? What academic background and professional qualification you have to make you think you are in position making such a statement?