Welcome to the Iran era

[That Guy]

Nuclear program created a pressure lever for Iran to exert influence and get a deal for economic cooperation with Europe. What you fail to understand, is this: Iran does not aid or recognition as Iran is a rich country in oil and gas as well as additionally being a very old country. What Iran was in need of was technological advancement. For example see this: Investing in Iran after the lifting of sanctions - BBC News

An Iranian company signed a 130 million dollar contract with a German-Austrian company to mutually design, test and manufacture engines in Iran using the latest European standards of Euro 6. This is what Iran wants. On a large scale. If Europe gives to Iran, then Iran will remain a nuclear threshold state much like Japan. If not then Iran can always go back and do what it was doing before. It is all about national interest.



That is what you are saying. You carve your way into the international market. It is not given to you.

You can only do so, if you have access to it. If you don't, then you wont even be given the tools to do so.

Also, there are no guarantees that even these nuclear sanctions are going to be lifted, if conservatives on both sides get their way.

 

[Daneshmand]

You can only do so, if you have access to it. If you don't, then you wont even be given the tools to do so.

Also, there are no guarantees that even these nuclear sanctions are going to be lifted, if conservatives on both sides get their way.

Iran already manufactures engines, power plants and alot of other things. But Iran wants to upgrade its tech status. It is not like Iran is starting from zero. So it is not about tools. It is about knowledge. As for possibility of things getting bogged down in US congress, Iran is not worried about that. Since if such a thing happens, then Iran can go back to where it was and probably will start building nukes. But the loss is going to be for Americans since every body in the world will blame them. Also, Obama who has put his reputation on line for this deal will suffer historical consequences. Basically Iran has played a beautiful game where now the US president is defending Iran in US congress. Iran can just sit on the side, watch and enjoy the American circus.

 

[That Guy]

Iran already manufactures engines, power plants and alot of other things. But Iran wants to upgrade its tech status. It is not like Iran is starting from zero. So it is not about tools. It is about knowledge. As for possibility of things getting bogged down in US congress, Iran is not worried about that. Since if such a thing happens, then Iran can go back to where it was and probably will start building nukes. But the loss is going to be for Americans since every body in the world will blame them. Also, Obama who has put his reputation on line for this deal will suffer historical consequences. Basically Iran has played a beautiful game where now the US president is defending Iran in US congress. Iran can just sit on the side, watch and enjoy the American circus.

First of all, this isn't what I'm talking about at all, second, the day Iran decides it wants to build a nuke, is the day Iran is going to war.

 

[Daneshmand]

First of all, this isn't what I'm talking about at all, second, the day Iran decides it wants to build a nuke, is the day Iran is going to war.

Not at all. These are your delusions.

 

[Siavash]

Wait? I though sanctions were put because of nuclear weapon program which eventually failed and left Iran with no other option but to negotiate.

I think it is a little bit more complicated than that. Sanctions and all mess could have been avoided if US did not walk away in 2003. John Bolton Gang and US would wanted to eventually put Iran under such pressure for regime change and isolate the regime and policies in Iran helped them tremendously. Some Hawks at power at the time and still have this agenda. As usual policies changed or dampened in US by the time and specially when Israel made itself in a self made mess in Gaza (one of Netanyahu's biggest public relation mistakes).

Yes most of the sanctions lifted was due to the circle of events starting from a fake laptop content and Ahmadinejad rhetoric and ... but I believe that would have happened in some other form anyway ... Iran knowing that went full force ahead despite sanctions in other words played all in knowing the condition of the middle east and the weak hand of western policy makers. Remember, despite sanctions and people suffering the regime still could have kept the things together for few years at least with its iron fist policies internally. Both Iran and West knew the dangers are mounting in the region and if not reaching a deal they would face external pressures which it might have been destabilizing for iran and US policies both. Having said that, this deal was more like a unwritten agreement between the two camps right form the beginning to stabilize the region. Looking at it this way there would have been no other outcome.

Now regarding the sanctions, for achieving what mentioned above Iran demanded something more than the UN sanctions. It also got some of the US sanctions removed. It also put US for the first time seeking solutions inside rather than imposing solution outside.

So yes, sanction was a result of Nuclear activities but it was more than that. yes, relief of sanctions basically rewinded that but also it was more than that and had more values to it.

The opposition including myself has to look to a more stable regime (if hardliners don't help) and need to now change Iran from within. The system won't break anymore from internal pressure. I have no clue how Velayat Faghih can be removed now. Best bet is NGO's and public influence. We have to see. May be this is better!

 

[That Guy]

Not at all. These are your delusions.

Delusions? Have you been ignoring what's being said globally? Or what's going on geopolitically? This is reality, calling them delusions doesn't change that fact.

 

[Daneshmand]

Delusions? Have you been ignoring what's being said globally? Or what's going on geopolitically? This is reality, calling them delusions doesn't change that fact.

Their delusions too. If they could, they would have.

 

[That Guy]

Their delusions too. If they could, they would have.

They're giving diplomacy a chance, because Iran never took the decision to actually build nukes, if Iran does decide to do it, then these so called delusions will turn into a reality.

You can't keep calling reality, delusions, when it doesn't suit your narrative. You need to learn to accept facts.

 

[haman10]

They're giving diplomacy a chance, because Iran never took the decision to actually build nukes, if Iran does decide to do it, then these so called delusions will turn into a reality.

You can't keep calling reality, delusions, when it doesn't suit your narrative. You need to learn to accept facts.

Stop embarressing yourself .

some people just need to learn when to just give up and be silent

 

[The Last of us]

You seem to have this idea that unilateral US sanctions have little effect on Iran, but seem to forget that the US controls much of the global financial sector, having the biggest hand on how the global economy runs. It can and has enforced sanctions that it declared unilaterally, and forced other nations to follow suit.

Irrelevant? Don't be ridiculous.

Either give a proper reply or don't waste my time. Why do you keep replying with these random comments?
You were talking about the effect of US sanctions on terrorism on Iran and I said they have little to no effect on Iran and now you're jumping and talking about us's potential power to enforce sanctions. US cannot do jack unilaterally, the reason the financial sanctions had the effect they did is because the players like China, Japan etc agreed to go along with it for the nuclear issue, if you think the international community will agree to financial sanctions on Iranian central banks such as SWIFT sanctions for other reasons like terrorism, then you're naive. Even the nuclear sanctions would not have lasted indefinitely. It has been stated (even today in the committee for foreign relations) already that if by some miracle the congress manages to downvote the current nuclear agree with veto proof majority, the sanctions regime will start to fall apart, if you think the US can bully the likes of China, Japan, India, EU to continue their sanctions, then you're badly deluded.

 

[Kristian]

Iran will no have nukes.

 

[That Guy]

Stop embarressing yourself .

some people just need to learn when to just give up and be silent

And that's what you've resorted to, huh? You're just in denial.

Either give a proper reply or don't waste my time. Why do you keep replying with these random comments?
You were talking about the effect of US sanctions on terrorism on Iran and I said they have little to no effect on Iran and now you're jumping and talking about us's potential power to enforce sanctions. US cannot do jack unilaterally, the reason the financial sanctions had the effect they did is because the players like China, Japan etc agreed to go along with it for the nuclear issue, if you think the international community will agree to financial sanctions on Iranian central banks such as SWIFT sanctions for other reasons like terrorism, then you're naive. Even the nuclear sanctions would not have lasted indefinitely. It has been stated (even today in the committee for foreign relations) already that if by some miracle the congress manages to downvote the current nuclear agree with veto proof majority, the sanctions regime will start to fall apart, if you think the US can bully the likes of China, Japan, India, EU to continue their sanctions, then you're badly deluded.

I only mention them, because you implied unilateral sanctions were worthless, when they're not.

I have given you a proper reply, if you don't like it, then that is your problem, not mine.

The US unilateral sanctions have had an effect on Iran. How do you think they even work? Any company, whether foreign or domestic, caught doing business with Iran, falls under these sanctions. With the US being the largest global consumer market, they've pressured mostly European markets to stop doing business with Iran.

The nuclear sanctions targeted mainly banks and oil companies, with other markets being covered in older sanctions that date back to 1996, under the Iran sanctions act (which was updated in 2012, I believe, to also cover nuclear sanctions).

US unilateral sanctions still limit the amount of tech that flows to Iran, and has had a huge impact on Iran's domestic industries, which is why Iran has always been considered behind decades of where they should actually be. It's also the reason why Iran's economy has never crossed the 400 billion GDP mark, even though it should have done so, a decade ago.

This is factual information, not some sort of grand delusion. Iran's affairs don't concern me, and I'm not anti-Iranian either, as I've been often accused of being.

This is a proper reply, if you don't like it, I don't really care.

 

[Daneshmand]

And that's what you've resorted to, huh? You're just in denial.


I only mention them, because you implied unilateral sanctions were worthless, when they're not.

I have given you a proper reply, if you don't like it, then that is your problem, not mine.

The US unilateral sanctions have had an effect on Iran. How do you think they even work? Any company, whether foreign or domestic, caught doing business with Iran, falls under these sanctions. With the US being the largest global consumer market, they've pressured mostly European markets to stop doing business with Iran.

The nuclear sanctions targeted mainly banks and oil companies, with other markets being covered in older sanctions that date back to 1996, under the Iran sanctions act (which was updated in 2012, I believe, to also cover nuclear sanctions).

US unilateral sanctions still limit the amount of tech that flows to Iran, and has had a huge impact on Iran's domestic industries, which is why Iran has always been considered behind decades of where they should actually be. It's also the reason why Iran's economy has never crossed the 400 billion GDP mark, even though it should have done so, a decade ago.

This is factual information, not some sort of grand delusion. Iran's affairs don't concern me, and I'm not anti-Iranian either, as I've been often accused of being.

This is a proper reply, if you don't like it, I don't really care.

Whatever. You are posting comments for the sake of posting comments not for the sake of debate. If I have to bet, I would say, you are posting all these random comments to reach the 6000 comments mark. I do not blame you. You just want to be "promoted" (to General rank?). Keep on posting.

 

[That Guy]

Whatever. You are posting comments for the sake of posting comments not for the sake of debate. If I have to bet, I would say, you are posting all these random comments to reach the 6000 comments mark. I do not blame you. You just want to be "promoted" (to General rank?). Keep on posting.

I didn't even know how many comments I had, until you mentioned it. This character assassination is exactly what I expect from someone who has no real argument to make.

None of my comments are random, they're on topic. I made a simple comment, it was you Iranians that decided to get offended over it. This isn't the first time, as whenever someone has a criticism or a comment, Iranians on this forum go and start attacking them.

 

[IR-TR]

Iran will no have nukes.

And that's good. Nobody should have nukes.