We never had a single failure in 1,500 flights of Tejas: ADE

[Joe Shearer]

Hello Sir Shearer !
Thank you for your kind words both here and in my inbox In case you were wondering when you got knighted by the Queen for me to call you 'Sir Shearer', I am only following this forum's norms where 'Sir' comes before the name instead of after! You'll see what I mean if you spend enough time here

I have noticed the usage. It is a curious one, and incorrect even when applied to properly knighted persons; their first names are used, invariably, not their last. Anyone wishing to confer on me a membership of the order of chivalry of PDF ought to call me Sir Joe Shearer in full and formal terms, Sir Joe for short, to indicate to awed members of the public who might be listening in that we are on terms of particular friendship, or Joe, if so privileged, over a beer at the pub or port after dinner at home.

For the moment, not being armigerous, Joe will do.

TK Sen's blog is truly a gem. I think these gentlemen from earlier and classier times kept a very detailed diary or memoir which is why they can write such blogs. Me, I don't know what I did last week without having to ask my wife!
With best regards.

The DARIN note was outstanding. If only such brilliant notes could be written about similar projects - the glass cockpit for the SU 30, for instance, or the MiG 21 bis enhancements, or the full story of the ALH (only one individual can really write that; the rest of us saw it from distant and partial perspectives only).

 

[Badabing]

How about going back to the NIKE shoe factory or chopping onions for noodle soup or whatever else you do.Shift timing must be beginning.

Mau, I thought you would open up with "what is your therial nomba please?" and claim that there hadn't been any failures in 1,500 tries, then start throwing Nazi labels on everyone again. Disappointing......

Well, no soup for you!

LCA = Low Caste Aircraft. It can't even match up with the FC-1. Wait till India gets that T-45 (Russians won't ever give you the real T-50), you'll be going to town with that one day and night.

BTW, the Russians absolutely trashed the LCA, calling it half baked and unfit for modern air warfare. Maiden flight was in 2001 and with no failures it took another decade to deliver one? You're stroking yourself to delirium. Just go buy something from somebody and spare yourselves the grief.

Mau, you better get back to your call there before your teenage American boss cracks his whip at you.

 

[Ping]

Dude, you can sort the rest of the tangle with Captain Popye, but here is a post that is technically incorrect!

1.Even when compared to the "older aircrafts" ; the MiG 21 was more "unforgiving" than most of them.

2. Nope! That is why we have the FBW system. The FCS limits the "moron" in the cockpit. But, it is possible that you are talking about this....

lol... So those IAF pilots are monkeys... Ouch! Atleast I was less harsh.

You are comparing a subsonic fighter like hawker or canberra with a Mach 2+ fighter like the Mig-21? Yeah, a cessna is easier to fly than a Star Fighter. What's your point? Those incompetent pilots knew which plane they were getting into. If those pilots crashed thinking they were flying a canberra while in the cockpit of a Mig-21, they were indeed incompetent morons.

Oh, so now FBW is a magic wand which fully prevents stall and crash? It's impossible to crash a FBW aircraft? Are you on drugs?

I remember hearing similar claims before;
Check is in the mail.
I am still a virgin.
It's going to be sunny tommorw.

I Can't help but wonder what if, it was India which tested a fighter like J-20. If these fanboys are this much excited about a not yet 4 Gen fighter - with a shitty 6G tolerance - in perpetual development - run by an American engine - without radar -, then imagine the boasting if India designed a 5th Generation fighter all by itself. They would probably be asking the entire world to swear fealty to India. Scary!

 

[GORKHALI]

lol... So those IAF pilots are monkeys... Ouch! Atleast I was less harsh.

You are comparing a subsonic fighter like hawker or canberra with a Mach 2+ fighter like the Mig-21? Yeah, a cessna is easier to fly than a Star Fighter. What's your point? Those incompetent pilots knew which plane they were getting into. If those pilots crashed thinking they were flying a canberra while in the cockpit of a Mig-21, they were indeed incompetent morons.

Oh, so now FBW is a magic wand which fully prevents stall and crash? It's impossible to crash a FBW aircraft? Are you on drugs?



I Can't help but wonder what if, it was India which tested a fighter like J-20. If these fanboys are this much excited about a not yet 4 Gen fighter - with a shitty 6G tolerance - in perpetual development - run by an American engine - without radar -, then imagine the boasting if India designed a 5th Generation fighter all by itself. They would probably be asking the entire world to swear fealty to India. Scary!

see last nite i gave a intresting comparision ,return you bck with same coin Mig 21 equal or better than F 22 raptor.. Now baal ki khaal nikalna band karo and stfu btw u wr here since 2009 with mere 73posts ,wr whr u r for so long mate ??

 

[ganimi kawa]

lol... So those IAF pilots are monkeys... Ouch! Atleast I was less harsh.

What I meant was you need an actual monkey to achieve the crash rate of MiG 21 with the LCA. Whatever else you thought was your own imagination. I thought you were a serious poster but again I was wrong.

1.You are comparing a subsonic fighter like hawker or canberra with a Mach 2+ fighter like the Mig-21? Yeah, a cessna is easier to fly than a Star Fighter. What's your point?

2.Those incompetent pilots knew which plane they were getting into. If those pilots crashed thinking they were flying a canberra while in the cockpit of a Mig-21, they were indeed incompetent morons.

1.Quote the post where I have named Canberra. Don't get confused!

2.What gave you the idea that the IAF pilots flew MiG 21 like canberra? That is pure vitriol from you and nothing else!

Oh, so now FBW is a magic wand which fully prevents stall and crash? It's impossible to crash a FBW aircraft? Are you on drugs?

So you mean to say that unless and until an "uncrashable" aircraft is developed we should stay with the shitty non FBW crafts?Listen to what it means.....

We'll have a 233th gen fighter which cannot be crashed; till then we will persist with the MiG 21!

Now, that my friend, is as delusional a rant as I have ever heard!

I Can't help but wonder what if, it was India which tested a fighter like J-20. If these fanboys are this much excited about a not yet 4 Gen fighter - with a shitty 6G tolerance - in perpetual development - run by an American engine - without radar -, then imagine the boasting if India designed a 5th Generation fighter all by itself. They would probably be asking the entire world to swear fealty to India. Scary!

With a shitty 6G tolerance ----Wrong

In perpetual development--- Wrong (compare with other programs)

Without radar-----Again wrong


First get your facts straight, then diss the fanboys!

 

[GORKHALI]

What I meant was you need an actual monkey to achieve the crash rate of MiG 21 with the LCA. Whatever else you thought was your own imagination. I thought you were a serious poster but again I was wrong.



1.Quote the post where I have named Canberra. Don't get confused!

2.What gave you the idea that the IAF pilots flew MiG 21 like canberra? That is pure vitriol from you and nothing else!



So you mean to say that unless and until an "uncrashable" aircraft is developed we should stay with the shitty non FBW crafts?Listen to what it means.....

We'll have a 233th gen fighter which cannot be crashed; till then we will persist with the MiG 21!

Now, that my friend, is as delusional a rant as I have ever heard!




With a shitty 6G tolerance ----Wrong

In perpetual development--- Wrong (compare with other programs)

Without radar-----Again wrong


First get your facts straight, then diss the fanboys!

ganimi ji !according to him FCS and FBW are not required as cessana or starfighter is enough as it's more agile than J 20 lol. We must switchover to cessana again .

 

[John Doe]

. Anyone wishing to confer on me a membership of the order of chivalry of PDF ought to call me Sir Joe Shearer in full and formal terms

"Sir Joe Shearer" it will be then

And I look forward to the invite to the old Castle where we can compare our experiences on this forum!

 

[IND151]

i dont think that the statement by ADE that We never had a single failure in 1,500 flights of Tejas is true. may be less failures but not a single? it is not possible. even f 22 crashed during its test flights.

 

[SpArK]

i dont think that the statement by ADE that We never had a single failure in 1,500 flights of Tejas is true. may be less failures but not a single? it is not possible. even f 22 crashed during its test flights.

If there was a crash with any of the prototypes, it would have certainly reached our ears, especially when the program is transparent and each and every news is keenly followed by defence enthusiasts.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

@Capt.Popeye

This thread is about the LCA Tejas, not about random blow-hards who know everything about everything. We are straying off topic to no purpose.

Please don't waste time responding to a highly opinionated person who doesn't know what he's talking about. Senior pilots, with a lot of air-time, who were totally proficient in their craft, found that a MiG21 fit them like a glove fits the hand. Junior pilots, without that degree of expertise, even those who would have had no trouble flying, say, easy flyers like Hunters and Canberras, found it very tricky. It was used extensively in the IAF, which meant that a large number of young pilots used it. As a direct result, a large number of accidents took place - the highest number listed in COFA - involving this type. This was a reality, and no amount of anyone's using invective and bad language will change that.

He talks glibly about morons in the cockpit without a clue about what went into training carefully selected individuals with exceptionally high motor skills and who were in terms of intelligence the pick of their NDA batches, and without a clue about the difference between aerodynamically stable and unstable aircraft types.

Nor does he have a clue about the gap in flying qualities between the HJT Kiran and the MiG, and the lack of training craft between the two.

Apparently the quest for an aircraft like the Hawk was a quest for a few dollars more.

Just forget it. He's not worth the time and the trouble. I am spending this amount of time and trouble because I don't want to see you bottom-feeding along with him.

Thanks Joe. Your point well taken. Though his first post had enough subliminal clues, i thought that it was born solely out of ignorance. But then he had to wade in "breech-baby" style and display a combination of ignorance and stupidity (with more hidden arrows in the quiver).
But never mind. The brothers Montgolfier invented the 'hot-air' balloon. Their descendants abound.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I have noticed the usage. It is a curious one, and incorrect even when applied to properly knighted persons; their first names are used, invariably, not their last. Anyone wishing to confer on me a membership of the order of chivalry of PDF ought to call me Sir Joe Shearer in full and formal terms, Sir Joe for short, to indicate to awed members of the public who might be listening in that we are on terms of particular friendship, or Joe, if so privileged, over a beer at the pub or port after dinner at home.

For the moment, not being armigerous, Joe will do.

Joe; John was only alluding to the common usage of "Sir" on this forum, which as you correctly point out is not in order. Probably it is a 'sub-continental' slant.
Years ago (as part of a British outfit in Liverpool), i was taken up (not for a misdemeanour) to meet the COTB, a Sir Thomas Pilkington (somewhat related to glassy Pilkingtons). Since i was then (nearly) at the bottom of the pecking order, was a little awe-struck and fumbled with the method of addressing him. Old man said (with a smile)- "Tom will do all right, and if you buy me a few pints; then i might settle for Tom-Tom as well."
But the British could be sticklers for form as well; in a visitor's book (belonging to a relative) have seen the autograph of (then Princess) Elisabeth while commissioning the (old) INS Rajput (in1949). She signed exactly in the middle of a fresh page. And that is how it remains to date. While Lord Mountbatten appears in the same book (on various occasions) as Mountbatten of Burma, but in standard entry form. May be he was more plebeian, or the fact that the (two of them had worked together) decided that.

The DARIN note was outstanding. If only such brilliant notes could be written about similar projects - the glass cockpit for the SU 30, for instance, or the MiG 21 bis enhancements, or the full story of the ALH (only one individual can really write that; the rest of us saw it from distant and partial perspectives only).

Wish that happens. Even in the Public/Governmental sector, for every ham-handed, bungling misadventure, there are at least a few incidents (sadly unreported) where individuals and teams performed exceedingly well and in exemplary fashion.
The DAE (esp in the old days) has many such examples.

 

[Joe Shearer]

i dont think that the statement by ADE that We never had a single failure in 1,500 flights of Tejas is true. may be less failures but not a single? it is not possible. even f 22 crashed during its test flights.

If I hadn't been a polite old geezer, I might - just possibly might - have started this comment with the words, YOU STUPID F**K!

As it is, being a polite old geezer, I am constrained to use a different set of words. Here goes.

Dear Sir,

YOU STUPID F**K!

All LCA flights - every single jack-assed one of them - took off and landed from the HAL airport in Bangalore. It is bounded by the Varthur Road, a main road carrying thousands of people every day, a railway track and heavy urban areas around Marathenhalli, the Wind-Tunnel Road and huge concentrations of IT offices, and the KGA. Every flight was in clear visibility of all, including a fan club that has a diary of every flight spotted, which is every flight made. There are sweaty-palmed journalists hanging around for any bit of information that would bring a little colour, a little life into their jaded lives.

And you think a crash would go unnoticed? When even a heavy landing by the ALH (not the acrobatic section's crash) made newspaper headlines?

You've gotta be joking.

With sincere regards and wholeheartedly praying that you grow some grey matter even now - it's never too late,
Yours truly,

 

[indushek]

If I hadn't been a polite old geezer, I might - just possibly might - have started this comment with the words, YOU STUPID F**K!

As it is, being a polite old geezer, I am constrained to use a different set of words. Here goes.

Dear Sir,

YOU STUPID F**K!

All LCA flights - every single jack-assed one of them - took off and landed from the HAL airport in Bangalore. It is bounded by the Varthur Road, a main road carrying thousands of people every day, a railway track and heavy urban areas around Marathenhalli, the Wind-Tunnel Road and huge concentrations of IT offices, and the KGA. Every flight was in clear visibility of all, including a fan club that has a diary of every flight spotted, which is every flight made. There are sweaty-palmed journalists hanging around for any bit of information that would bring a little colour, a little life into their jaded lives.

And you think a crash would go unnoticed? When even a heavy landing by the ALH (not the acrobatic section's crash) made newspaper headlines?

You've gotta be joking.

With sincere regards and wholeheartedly praying that you grow some grey matter even now - it's never too late,
Yours truly,

I just can't stop myself from rolling on my tummy. Joe the tearer!!!

 

[KS]

If I hadn't been a polite old geezer, I might - just possibly might - have started this comment with the words, YOU STUPID F**K!

As it is, being a polite old geezer, I am constrained to use a different set of words. Here goes.

Dear Sir,

YOU STUPID F**K!

<snip>

With due thanks to the points mentioned by you in this very post, I dont think this part is necessary when the snipped portion was sure to clear his doubts as not everyone is familiar with the urban layout of B'lore.

 

[Joe Shearer]

With due thanks to the points mentioned by you in this very post, I dont think this part is necessary when the snipped portion was sure to clear his doubts as not everyone is familiar with the urban layout of B'lore.

Just ignore it, then.

Look at it this way; he will remember the urban layout of that part of Bangalore for the rest of his life.