" We Made It " - Voyager 1 leaves Solar sytem

[GDan]

I'm seeing all these posts about who did what, but isn't anyone going to mention Robert Goddard, the father of modern rocketry? He's kind of a big deal.

 

[Sher.Khan]

Why "We made it"? You aren't US American, are you?

we=mankind!!
dont know whether same is applicable to you!

 

[Audio]

Petty jealousy is what I see here...

It's not mere jealousy. It's planned conditioning of thoughts in order to present China as great and being vital to as many things as possible. So their "street cred" goes up.

 

[Armstrong]

It's not mere jealousy. It's planned conditioning of thoughts in order to present China as great and being vital to as many things as possible. So their "street cred" goes up.

Oi you Chubby Bunny* don't take digs at my Chinese Brethren !

*Damn that sounds like the name of some heavy set Playmate !

 

[xunzi]

lol, i'm talking about the Russian foundation of what you call "indigenous", but in your desperate attempts to spew garbage paid for by the CCP you call it a sample.......i know, you have to make it look like China takes credit for most of the things that happened, because this is the Chinese shit narrative and you're an agent for it's propagation.

But surprise, surprise it isn't so indigenous as soon as one takes a more thorough look at it, just like everything in the copy cat kingdom.
Even the "indigenous" DF family of missiles is cobbled up together from scraps of knowledge Qian brought from the USA and it's familiarity to Russian systems it's predecessors we're clones of is evident from the shape of the crew module and crew escape system, which is identical to Russian.

This would be called misinterpretation and manipulation of information on your part, yellow trash bot.

Listen, yankee! Did I said China space program is indigenous? We are talking about Rocketry here okay? Pay attention to what I said or just get the **** out of my face and shut up. I'm getting very irritated with your idiot comment regarding the father of modern space program and your attempt to demonize my country.

If you are talking about the Soviet R2. Don't forget, that is also a reverse engineer of Nazi German. Nazi German rocket program is the most advance and both the USA and Soviet benefit immensely in their acquisition of their expertise and knowledge.

Do you know who is the guy in RED?

 

[xunzi]

Here is why your argument strains credulity...

Whenever something is said to be 'Chinese invention' or 'American accomplishment' or 'German engineered', the proper context is that there is a political entity involved, such as 'China' or 'The United States of America' or 'Germany', that were behind that effort. The Apollo program was a pure American accomplishment. Not Chinese. Not Germany. Of course there were people of either Chinese and Germany descent involved, but those individuals were part of the collective effort sponsored by a political entity called 'The United States of America' to land humans on the Moon. National resources, from human to material, were involved. If the US imported rare metals from Africa for the Apollo vehicles, does that mean it was a Zimbabwean or Nigerian project as well since native Africans must have extracted and sold the rare metals to US?

If an ethnic Chinese or even a Chinese citizen contributed to the Space Shuttle in anyway, his ideas would be worthless if it were not for other contributors to the program who took his ideas, refined them, and implemented them. But in the end, the Space Shuttle would be a purely American accomplishment.

Petty jealousy is what I see here...

Did I said the USA didn't deserve the credit? don't put word in my mouth. I clearly said the USA deserved the credit for putting talent together but my emphasis on the success of US space program, Apollo to the moon and the main reason for winning the Space Race was simply can attribute to a Nazi German by the name of Wernher von Braun. Had the Soviet gets their hand on him before the US's Operation Paperclip, the Soviet would be the one landing on the moon first.

 

[jaunty]

Gotta love how the false flag Chinese tried to make it an India bashing thread.

we=mankind!!
dont know whether same is applicable to you!

He is a false flag Chinese. Don't let him bother you. Unlike him you don't get paid for posting on the internet.

 

[Sher.Khan]

Gotta love how the false flag Chinese tried to make it an India bashing thread.



He is a false flag Chinese. Don't let him bother you. Unlike him you don't get paid for posting on the internet.

interesting thing is that mods are doing nothing to check these random trolls. Dont they know that, its causing much damage to the reputation of this forum.

 

[Indo-guy]

Is the rest of the world even trying? America, in her incredibly short history, has shown that it is the greatest country to have ever existed. The sum of all the achievements of all other countries through time do not amount to a fraction of America's. Truly awe inspiring.

while I completely dislike US for its political ethos .....American establishment has to be given due respect and regards .


What US has achieved is just astonishing .....and truly as you said is awespiring !


Hats off ....to mighty US Science !!!

The feats they have achieved will remain milestones to reckon and remember !!!

 

[gambit]

Did I said the USA didn't deserve the credit? don't put word in my mouth. I clearly said the USA deserved the credit for putting talent together but my emphasis on the success of US space program, Apollo to the moon and the main reason for winning the Space Race was simply can attribute to a Nazi German by the name of Wernher von Braun. Had the Soviet gets their hand on him before the US's Operation Paperclip, the Soviet would be the one landing on the moon first.

Keyword search 'robert goddard'. Werner von Braun learned from Goddard.

Robert H. Goddard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...in 1963, von Braun...

...recalled that "Goddard's experiments in liquid fuel saved us years of work, and enabled us to perfect the V-2 years before it would have been possible."

The flaw in your argument here is that just because von Braun was a prominent name, mostly due to his association with a horrifically morally odious political entity next to communism to date, that somehow the American space program would be inevitably lagging behind the Soviets without von Braun.

There must be logical error in there somewhere...

 

[American_Millenium]

Do you know who is the guy in RED?

An American, whatever his origin may be. Like I already said, Germans are not a minority in America; Germans are the largest White ethnic group in the United States, not that anyone really cares because we don't identify ourselves by such worthless information.

And regardless as to his Nazi origins, most of the men in that photo are pure-blood American-born men.

 

[xunzi]

Keyword search 'robert goddard'. Werner von Braun learned from Goddard.

Robert H. Goddard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The flaw in your argument here is that just because von Braun was a prominent name, mostly due to his association with a horrifically morally odious political entity next to communism to date, that somehow the American space program would be inevitably lagging behind the Soviets without von Braun.

There must be logical error in there somewhere...

Where did I said he did not take Robert Goddard's previous experience with liquid-fuel rocket? Can you stop putting words in my mouth? Next time, make sure you understand what I'm trying to say and make counter argument based on what I'm trying to say and not deflecting my argument into another subject.

please read on the subject of Space Race.

------------------------------
by Anthony Young

Monday, July 10, 2006
June 16th passed with virtually no mention of one of the greatest names in the exploration of space. On that date in 1977, Dr. Wernher von Braun passed away. He was admired and loved by many he worked with during projects Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo, yet vilified by others because of his wartime efforts developing the V-2 for the Third Reich. He profoundly influenced the course of history in Europe and America, and was instrumental in the United States achieving the greatest engineering, scientific and geopolitical accomplishment of the 20th century.

For many Americans, their memories of Wernher von Braun are and will remain profoundly positive. I am one of them. Like many other children of the 1950s, I first learned of Dr. von Braun on the Walt Disney TV series devoted to space exploration. The first of these was “Man In Space” first broadcast on March 9, 1955. This was followed later that year with “Man and the Moon.” The last of the three memorable programs was “Mars and Beyond” broadcast in 1957. It was estimated over 40 million viewers saw these shows. Von Braun was already familiar to the many readers of Collier’s magazine which published a fascinating series on space exploration several years before. With the launch of Sputnik on October 4, 1957, von Braun stood on the real threshold of space exploration he had dreamed of pursuing since his youth.

He was admired and loved by many he worked with during projects Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo, yet vilified by others because of his wartime efforts developing the V-2 for the Third Reich.
America suddenly found itself in a space race with Russia. Were it not for Wernher von Braun’s rational persuasion and quick actions to surrender his group to American forces in 1945 at the close of World War 2, there might have been no space race at all. The culturally illiterate can be forgiven if they believe the group of German engineers and scientists who came to America as part of Operation Paperclip comprised the entire braintrust behind the V-2 rocket. It did not. While over 120 Germans were eventually brought to the United States under that secret program, it is a little known fact that more than 270 members of that rocket team were taken, both voluntarily and involuntarily, to Russia. Had the entire German rocket team been captured by the Soviet Army, it would not have been the America flag planted on the Moon, but instead a red flag with the hammer and sickle.

While von Braun was still at Ft. Bliss, Texas with his team of engineers and scientists, he seriously considered the possibility of one day working in private American industry. However, rocket development was being driven by the US Army, and it was there he and his fellow Germans had the best chance of advancing rocket technology, not the commercial sector which was non-existent. He and the others on his team held out the hope that one day they could work on rocket development for peaceful purposes, including launching satellites and pursuing the dream of manned spaceflight. The German rocket team chose to stay together, although some did accept offers from US businesses. Eventually, all the German rocket team members became US citizens.

Sputnik, of course, changed the direction and speed of American rocket development. Once again, von Braun was in the right place at the right time. In October 1949, the Secretary of the Army approved the transfer of von Braun and his team from Ft. Bliss to Redstone Arsenal, Alabama the following year—a move welcomed by practically all the Germans. Von Braun and his family settled in Huntsville. He became technical director of the Guided Missile Development Group, then Chief of Guided Missile Development Division. Von Braun was encouraged by the formation of NASA in 1958. Two years later, von Braun and his team received another transfer, this time to the newly formed Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville. Von Braun was appointed its first director.

The golden era of Apollo, and eclipse

The decision for the German rocket team to stick together was paying off. Their first big booster, the Saturn 1, built on the industry liaisons the team had established during development of the Redstone and Jupiter-C. With President Kennedy’s historic decision to send American astronauts to the Moon and return them safely, Huntsville became a boomtown. The decade of the 1960s was the golden era of rocket development and the thousands of government and contractor personnel working at Marshall knew they were in a pivotal moment in history. Von Braun’s responsibilities were immense but he was a superb NASA Center Director. Dr. Arthur Rudolph was director of the Saturn 5 Program Office at MSFC, and he handpicked the men responsible for the largest, most complex and powerful rocket ever conceived by man.

The first Saturn 5 launched was SA-501, Apollo 4, on November 9, 1967. This flight and the next, Apollo 6, were unmanned. In one of the boldest decisions of the Apollo program, Von Braun signed off on the NASA request to send the Apollo 8 crew of Frank Borman, William Anders, and Jim Lovell to the Moon. Apollo 8 lifted off from Kennedy Space Center on December 21, 1968. The mission was a complete success. Von Braun remained director of MSFC until March 1970.

The ability of Earth to sustain intelligent life, which in turn was capable of creating machines designed to explore the Moon and the planets was clear evidence to von Braun that man and his universe were the creation of God.
In a surprising move, he chose to accept the newly created position of Deputy Associate Administrator of Planning at NASA Headquarters. It was an extremely difficult decision for von Braun to make, and it turned out to be the first big mistake of his career. His struggles and humiliation at NASA Headquarters have been recounted by Bob Ward in his recent book Dr. Space. Von Braun left the space agency in June 1972 to accept a position as vice president of Fairchild Industries. Several years later, the world’s most famous rocket scientist learned he had contracted cancer. His health began to decline in 1976 and was finally hospitalized later that year. He resigned from Fairchild Industries in January 1977 and was confined to his bed, growing weaker by the month. He died on June 16, 1977, only 65 years old. He was buried at Ivy Hill Cemetery in Alexandria, Virgina.

Von Braun’s faith

Von Braun, a life-long Lutheran, was a believer in intelligent design in the Universe long before it became a catch phrase and a lightning rod of debate.

“For me, the idea of a creation is not conceivable without invoking the necessity of design,” he wrote in a letter to the California State Board of Education in September 1972. He added, “It is in scientific honesty that I endorse the presentation of alternative theories for the origin of the universe, life and man in the science classroom. It would be an error to overlook the possibility that the universe was planned rather than happening by chance.”

While von Braun was careful to use the word theory with regard to the creation of the universe, in his mind there was no conflict or debate. The ability of Earth to sustain intelligent life, which in turn was capable of creating machines designed to explore the Moon and the planets was clear evidence to von Braun that man and his universe were the creation of God.

It was for that reason von Braun chose, with his advancing terminal illness, a modest gravestone to cite one of his favorite passages of scripture. His gravestone reads: WERNHER VON BRAUN 1912-1977 Psalms 19:1. That scripture is: “The heavens are telling the glory of God and the firmament proclaims his handiwork.”

The Space Review: Remembering Wernher von Braun

Apollo space program director Sam Phillips was quoted as saying that he did not think that America would have reached the moon as quickly as it did without von Braun's help. Later, after discussing it with colleagues, he amended this to say that he did not believe America would have reached the moon at all.

 

[xunzi]

An American, whatever his origin may be. Like I already said, Germans are not a minority in America; Germans are the largest White ethnic group in the United States, not that anyone really cares because we don't identify ourselves by such worthless information.

And regardless as to his Nazi origins, most of the men in that photo are pure-blood American-born men.

He was a naturalized American and an immigrant, not the same as those who are natural born American so this pure-blood is nonsense. If anything von Braun is the pride of German. He was simply helping America defeating the Soviet in the Space Race. Without him, The US would be behind the Soviet.

The U.S. Navy had been tasked with building a rocket to lift satellites into orbit, but the resulting Vanguard rocket launch system was unreliable. In 1957, with the launch of Sputnik 1, there was a growing belief within the United States that America lagged behind the Soviet Union in the emerging Space Race. American authorities then chose to utilize von Braun and his German team's experience with missiles to create an orbital launch vehicle, Wernher von Braun had originally proposed in 1954 but had been denied.

 

[American_Millenium]

He was a naturalized American and an immigrant, not the same as those who are natural born American so this pure-blood is nonsense. If anything von Braun is the pride of German. He was simply helping America defeating the Soviet in the Space Race. Without him, The US would be behind the Soviet.

Again, where did I say anything about him being born American? Read English better and stop misquoting me.

I said the overwhelming MAJORITY of men in the photo are pure-blood Americans, and that is a fact, and the person you are referencing was an immigrant, like all Americans if you go back only 400 years.

Werner Von Brauhn is American; his children are American, his grandchildren, etc.

 

[gambit]

Where did I said he did not take Robert Goddard's previous experience with liquid-fuel rocket? Can you stop putting words in my mouth?

Did I said you said so?

The charge of 'putting words' into another's mouth is cheap to make and equally easy to bring forth to distract others from the fallacies of one's own argument. Your argument here is that somehow the US is so severely bereft of intellectual capital in the field of rocketry that only a foreigner, be he German or Chinese, could remedy.

Next time, make sure you understand what I'm trying to say and make counter argument based on what I'm trying to say and not deflecting my argument into another subject.

please read on the subject of Space Race.

I read them and probably have a better understanding of it than you do.

Take you own source, for example...

Sputnik, of course, changed the direction and speed of American rocket development.

If Werner von Braun was so crucial in the field of rocketry and that if the Soviets had him the Moon landing would have been done by Soviet astronaut, then why did the Soviets leapt ahead of the US with Sputnik when the US had von Braun and so many other German engineers? What happened? The lederhosens were too tight on those guys? Too much lagers and sauerkraut?

Werner von Braun was made direct or NASA as consequence of this event. Do you know what is the primary role of a 'director' or 'administrator' of any organization? From your argument, the answer is clearly 'No'.

When I was active duty, our squadron CO was a mediocre pilot but an excellent-borderline-outstanding leader/administrator. When he flew, he had no problem reducing himself to being someone else's wingman if the guy is a superior pilot. He eventually was selected 'below the zone' to full colonel. All while being a mediocre fighter pilot among fellow pilots. When general officers fly to maintain proficiency and keep their flight pay, they have to fly only a few hours a month and they fly in the rear cockpit or as a co-pilot in the right seat. Back in WW II, enlisted pilots in both German and US air forces were often element leads due to their superior flying skills regardless of their status on the ground. If the aircraft is multi-engined, the enlisted pilot is often the aircraft commander and gave orders to his officers.

The primary role of a 'director' or 'administrator' is not to be a super engineer or super lawyer or super pilot or super teacher or super whatever but the guardian of the organization's mission. A school's principal is such a person. He is not expected to teach but to make sure teachers do their jobs and that they have resources available so they can do their jobs. It would help if the principal came from the teaching ranks but essentially not necessary. It was not von Braun's daily duties in NASA to dart from department to department giving engineers brilliant and unheard of technical advice and relevation gleamed from his days back in Germany. Everything he knew of rocketry from Germany, he gave to the US by the time he was made NASA's director.

NASA's accomplishments belongs to the US from Americans of all origins and ultimately their origins does not matter. If the Saturn V had problems, it was low to mid level engineers who remedied those problems, not Werner von Braun. The most he probably did was to keep leadership of issues, from budget to manpower to technical, so that the organization's mission will not be distracted when there are competing priorities from the many departments.

The kind of mythology you are trying to impart to von Braun belongs in North Korea and China. Your emphasis on von Braun's German ethnicity is nothing but a feeble attempt to downplay America's accomplishment in any way possible, worst of all tactics is through racial division.