We deserve to know the truth about the tirah valley operation and 35 punjab regiment

[thrilainmanila]

whats with 35 Punjab tag? be clear about your assumptions

if you are making a claim or someone in the media is tweeting an outragious claim then burden of proof is on claimant not the respondent

the war on terror is still going on and some details are already in the public domain given out directly by ISPR and some via media visits. if that is not good enough for you then tough. you are not in the right position , rank or authority to demand any further information.

if you are invoking the public's need to know clause then raise it via your MNA, MPA or senator to launch a public inquiry and a standing committee that bullies the army to come over and "EXPLAIN" in detail about the operations.

as for our sons not loosing their lives is concerned, I am sorry but this is an occupational hazard @Bratva thats for you too. no force is immune to losses in the counter insurgency operations be it former or current supper powers or a force of a third word country like Pakistan or Sri Lanka. ambushes and IED's are the bread and butter of the gorilla force and as for TTP it employs children, women and men with Burkas and Quran to hide or transport explosives in their attacks on forces on the move. if you have better suggestions then do share how to ensure 100% safety while passing through populated areas maybe NATO, Iraqis and Syrians can also learn few things to avoid making "stupid mistakes" as you put it.

finally @thrilainmanila you shoudl start your quest by contacting the originator of that tweet, and use google, to find out all the press releases by ISPR and videos on Tirah valley, like explained by someone, in formation is already there dont expect others to do it for you by making a half-arsed thread like this.

@M.SAAD as far as TTP videos of bombings are concerned I have seen videos titled PAF killing Pashtons that include B2 "spirit" bombing as well and I have also seen the burnt out corpses still from Falujah used to show belonging to Red Mosque "masjid Zarar" in Islamabad, with the required sounds and voices. I am not aware of any heavy fighting in population areas of Tirah valley , I doubt if anyone was allowed to stay there before the launch of the operation but if you know otherwise then do share.

Precisely what do you want to achieve after knowing what you demand ?

your post/opinion is half arsed, you think ISPR is a credible source this has to be joke of the year, Wajahat S khan isn't some one who is known to spread anti-pak propaganda he's been embeded with the pak army for quite some years and knows more about some of the fighting then most ordinary journalists, he wouldn't just tweet something to spread gossip and gain followers, people ,like you are whats wrong with PDF, you'd rather listen to a diluted version of massive military encounter from a propanganda machine like ISPR, do you honestly believe ISPR? they said that 2500 terrorists attacked a military post which is simply absurd? and being mr guillable your fed there BS.
the army never seems to learn from its mistakes, i just wanted to know know the reason why casualties were so high, its not fair that so many men should die if it was due to poor intel or the fact they werent trained properly.

 

[macnurv]

No right now you have no right to demand full disclosure of casualties. All you need to know great sacrifices are being made by our soldiers for our future, in any case the media will spin it in other ways.

No. We lost 41+ soldiers at that night. I have a friend from naala (Terah valley), and he is is the eye witness.

Yeah he was standing there and watching the whole thin unfold.

 

[pakdefender]

No. We lost 41+ soldiers at that night. I have a friend from naala (Terah valley), and he is is the eye witness.

lol ... how did you friend do the count , was he standing and watching as it happened ?

This is just another tall tale .. unfortunately militants from that area have been spinning these tall tales as the army operation has busted long standing myths and FATA will no longer be a no go area for the state authorities.

 

[aks18]

captain hassan martyred in tirah valley they were 5 to 6 jawans surrounded by more than 100 talidogs no doubt Tirah valley was the most deadly operation .. they gave real hard time to those dogs and what i was informed he and his team hunted more then 30 dogs till their last breath

 

[thrilainmanila]

From what i know about this incident with respect to 35 Punjab, there was either intelligence failure or a stupid decision from the officers in command which led to so many death in a single incident. Nearly one whole company was dead / injured. From what i heard, a ridge / feature was captured in hurry before proper due diligence and its a very lush green area and the enemy being native knew the area, so once the army guys reach the spot, the enemy came out from everywhere and engaged them from all sides and the resulting chaos led to so many dead. 35 punjab guys fought bravely but lost lot of men.

Even few days ago when we heard that 07 army men died in a suicide explosion in SWA, in reality it was a check post which was over run and the total dead were 11 men with 4 injured and the total number of guys in that check post was 15. Some casualties occurred due to our own artillery fire. As per practice if a check post if being overrun, artillery fire is called in which will result in own deaths too and enemy deaths too.

But officially we will never know the exact details of every engagement. But many times we have lost men due to wrong decision making of officers in command. And this is how military affairs work. History if full of instances where wrong decision by military leaders has caused casualties.

this is the reason why i dont trust ISPR, some bufoons on PDF would rather have there heads in the sky and live in fantasy then realize the truth, People on hear need to understand that losing a company in less then 2 days worth of fighting in this day and age isnt normal and what annoys me is that similar incidents keep on repeating themselves and no one wishes to speak about it.

 

[aks18]

 

[pakdefender]

The operations in FATA have defeated the militants on every front that they engaged the military , the proof is in the pudding with almost no suicide bombings and the movement in and out of the areas without much resistance any more.

These militants are like a turd that keeps getting flushed from one commode to the other , overtime it gets flushed it breaks down a bit more , if time permits will draw it on the map to explain

 

[Irfan Baloch]

From what i know about this incident with respect to 35 Punjab, there was either intelligence failure or a stupid decision from the officers in command which led to so many death in a single incident. Nearly one whole company was dead / injured. From what i heard, a ridge / feature was captured in hurry before proper due diligence and its a very lush green area and the enemy being native knew the area, so once the army guys reach the spot, the enemy came out from everywhere and engaged them from all sides and the resulting chaos led to so many dead. 35 punjab guys fought bravely but lost lot of men.

Even few days ago when we heard that 07 army men died in a suicide explosion in SWA, in reality it was a check post which was over run and the total dead were 11 men with 4 injured and the total number of guys in that check post was 15. Some casualties occurred due to our own artillery fire. As per practice if a check post if being overrun, artillery fire is called in which will result in own deaths too and enemy deaths too.

But officially we will never know the exact details of every engagement. But many times we have lost men due to wrong decision making of officers in command. And this is how military affairs work. History if full of instances where wrong decision by military leaders has caused casualties.

at a time in the given circumstances a commander makes a call and then it is followed through
knowing too well sometimes that enemy is well dug in with machine guns, the commander orders a frontal assault . the purpose is to achieve the objective at any cost depending on the importance and critical nature of the objective.

sometimes we dont have the luxury of time to call in air support of artillery strike and make do with available intelligence. we are trained to deal with ambushes , that are meant to be a surprise otherwise they are Not an ambush.,, and when we are attacking an enemy stronghold we are meant to be surrounded and in any such terrain like Tirah, the defender will use the natural cover to his advantage.

I will use the word failure, rash or stupid. if the commander ignores the intelligence or the SOPs . I know the ground forces were spear headed by SSG and there was constant air support available in this operation. but sadly its not a bollywood movie and NOT everything turns out favourably. war is a fluid concept and a good commander adapts

we can only speculate what happened there unless there is an official inquiry about the way that operation was conducted. it was an important stronghold with weapon piles comparable to a regular army which were to lost for years for the TTP. the fight was expected to be bitter and hard.

I dont want to second guess the ground commanders there, maybe for personal glory or competition with other forces there they moved in without due care of the surrounding OR just simply faced what somebody was bound to face if not them. the internal inquiry should determine if the casualties were inevitable or due to some bad calls and lack of SOPs.
now, whether this inquiry should be made pubic or not is irrelevant in order to keep the fog of war . what is relevant is if there are any lessons to be learnt and any commanders need to be reprimanded for rashness, something very hard to prove because anyone under fire on the spot has to make a decision and everyone follows . there is no walk out or dharna or jamhuriyat ka husan there our men will march in front of MG fire if ordered if thats what it takes to take the objective.

your post/opinion is half arsed, you think ISPR is a credible source this has to be joke of the year, Wajahat S khan isn't some one who is known to spread anti-pak propaganda he's been embeded with the pak army for quite some years

go run quick and jump inside Wajahat's back and get all your answers
bitching on ISPR over PDF wont get you anywhere

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

@Irfan Baloch Sir.When did this happen??/How could have we lost so many people in a single encounter???Does TTP still have such power????Why didnt we we call air strikes or cobras???etc

 

[Sage]

I have almost the exact number of the casualties on both sides ...I have posted about this in a passing comment but was told not to share anything about it ...a silent agreement you may say ....consider Tirah Battle as the Mother of All Battles during Zarb-e-Azb ...And there was no mistake made by the Commanders ...it just happened that both sides had decided to fight to the last breath ...What happened to the 35th at the end and how they were helped by another unit (can't disclose the name) and how the terrorists were made to run away like jackrabbits is another story though ...!

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

I have almost the exact number of the casualties on both sides ...I have posted about this in a passing comment but was told not to share anything about it ...a silent agreement you may say ....consider Tirah Battle as the Mother of All Battles during Zarb-e-Azb ...And there was no mistake made by the Commanders ...it just happened that both sides had decided to fight to the last breath ...What happened to the 35th at the end and how they were helped by another unit (can't disclose the name) and how the terrorists were made to run away like jackrabbits is another story though ...!

Where did u get that information???

 

[Sage]

Where did u get that information???

From a friend in uniform !

 

[Moon]

your post/opinion is half arsed, you think ISPR is a credible source this has to be joke of the year, Wajahat S khan isn't some one who is known to spread anti-pak propaganda he's been embeded with the pak army for quite some years and knows more about some of the fighting then most ordinary journalists, he wouldn't just tweet something to spread gossip and gain followers, people ,like you are whats wrong with PDF, you'd rather listen to a diluted version of massive military encounter from a propanganda machine like ISPR, do you honestly believe ISPR? they said that 2500 terrorists attacked a military post which is simply absurd? and being mr guillable your fed there BS.
the army never seems to learn from its mistakes, i just wanted to know know the reason why casualties were so high, its not fair that so many men should die if it was due to poor intel or the fact they werent trained properly.

Lol @ ISPR is not a credible source. And an arm chair general who writes shit about our army is?. Wajahat S Khan by the look of his tweets is a retard who doesn't know crap of how army engaged militants in Tirah. He's a no-brainer who wants followers on Twitter and has resorted to cheap accusations against the army, likely to gain sympathy from Indian trolls (no offence Indians) who roam the internet. Know what? my dad retried from the army, but he still has contacts within the army and the intelligence, how about I show him your and your boyfriend's "requests" and see what he says?. And then of course he wont be a better source than the ISPR but by all means better than an arm chair general.

 

[Bratva]

I have almost the exact number of the casualties on both sides ...I have posted about this in a passing comment but was told not to share anything about it ...a silent agreement you may say ....consider Tirah Battle as the Mother of All Battles during Zarb-e-Azb ...And there was no mistake made by the Commanders ...it just happened that both sides had decided to fight to the last breath ...What happened to the 35th at the end and how they were helped by another unit (can't disclose the name) and how the terrorists were made to run away like jackrabbits is another story though ...!

Was it 50+ on our side ? and other unit as 57 Baloch unit. It is already disclosed

From what i know about this incident with respect to 35 Punjab, there was either intelligence failure or a stupid decision from the officers in command which led to so many death in a single incident. Nearly one whole company was dead / injured. From what i heard, a ridge / feature was captured in hurry before proper due diligence and its a very lush green area and the enemy being native knew the area, so once the army guys reach the spot, the enemy came out from everywhere and engaged them from all sides and the resulting chaos led to so many dead. 35 punjab guys fought bravely but lost lot of men.

Even few days ago when we heard that 07 army men died in a suicide explosion in SWA, in reality it was a check post which was over run and the total dead were 11 men with 4 injured and the total number of guys in that check post was 15. Some casualties occurred due to our own artillery fire. As per practice if a check post if being overrun, artillery fire is called in which will result in own deaths too and enemy deaths too.

But officially we will never know the exact details of every engagement. But many times we have lost men due to wrong decision making of officers in command. And this is how military affairs work. History if full of instances where wrong decision by military leaders has caused casualties.

It seems PA suffer second biggest casualty in one day. First one being in N.Waziristan where Army convoy was ambushed and 60-70 soldiers died in 2010

 

[Amaa'n]

From all accounts this was the bloodiest fighting pak army faced in the entire operation with many men killed, I'd like to know in detail what happened, as some one who honetsly cares about the pak army, the public deserve to know what happened to the brave men who laid down there lives in the fighting against the terrorists. It makes no sense for so many to be killed in such a short period of time, but I'm making this thread for people to come forward so we can discuss this and learn some facts about what really happened, its important that we know of this mission so we can avoid the sons of tomorrow not losing there lives due to poor intel. I am not trying to created propangada against the pak fauj i just want to know a little truth.

You want to hear the truth, then talk to your friends in Military, they will tell you what happened....this was not the first big hit we had in Tirah, there were few before this, as bratva said there was one attack during K-1 where we lost a bloody Tank.....nobody made a mistake, its about getting best under the circumstances, but somehow enemy has the element of surprise, they have the vantage points, you don't.....so i order to capture those Points you have to fight to the end, one or the other way.......
@Bratva - i think you remember how SSG was pinned down in Tirah op back in 2011