We are leaving the Pakistanis with an enormous mess | US Professor Dr Michael Scheuer

[cyphercide]

There is no mess a few billion more cannot help clean up, is there?

Don't leave. No mess left behind!!!

Of course, then the whiners would be whining a completely different tune!!!

 

[VCheng]

right amount of Money and right amount of Faith (with correct flavour & correct sect) can sort out everything in Pakistan
but that doesnt mean we should give up our born right to Burn American and Israeli flags thats also part of our faith now.

Of course Pakistanis have every right to express their opinions as they see fit too, just like Sheuer or Chomsky in USA.

He certainly does. That has nothing to do with my comment on Pakistani "liberals".

To be honest, there are no true liberals in Pakistan in my view.

 

[OrionHunter]

Lets get this clear now. USA was not here to give democracy to Afghanistan or to fight OBL. Taliban, Al Qaida are all pawns in this Great Game.
The objective of Americans are:
1. Encircle China
2. Fund anti China terrorist groups
3. Deny China and Russia link to Gwadar Port
4. Divide Pakistan into smaller states
5. Keep Iran in check
6. Make India the sole power of South & Central Asia
To achieve all of this Pakistan's nuclear weapons will first have to go. Media propaganda has all ready been going against Pakistan's nukes.

Extremely simplistic argument! I think you're way out of sync with reality! You need to brush up on your geopolitics and the great game being played by the US of A. What you've mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with their so called WOT in Afghanistan.

If you are not familiar with Operation Cyclone, do spend some time researching this interesting piece of U.S. history.

So let's see what this “New Great Game” is all about.

The Real Reasons Behind the Afghanistan War

> Afghanistan is strategically located in the resource-rich region of Central Asia. Amid the rise of many emerging nations in search of new oil supplies, Central Asia has become ground zero in what is a new scramble for natural resources.

> It has been estimated that the entire Caspian Sea is full of oil and natural gas, starting from Azerbaijan and continuing to the opposite shore in the territory of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. These energy deposits take on enormous importance given their close proximity to the rising energy hungry powers of China and India. In addition, because of the expected depletion of the oil deposits in Alaska and the North Sea around the year 2015, the West is aggressively seeking access to new sources of energy supplies.

> In 2010, it was reported that a small team of Pentagon officials and American geologists had discovered vast amounts of untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan worth nearly $3 trillion.

> Rewind to the US sponsored 'Color revolutions' in the Central Asian Republics, the latest being Ukraine. This is what Brzezinski, who is a former Presidential advisor and a member of both the Bilderbergers and the Council on Foreign Relations had said:

"America’s global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained… A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world’s three most advanced and economically productive regions…most of the world’s physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil."

> The difficulty in exploiting the natural resources within Central Asia is one of transport not exploration. Geographically, there are several potential pathways for these pipelines. Two of these include:
1. A pipeline running south from the Caspian Sea, crossing through Iran, and out into the Black Sea.
2. A pipeline from the Caspian that traverses Afghanistan and Pakistan, and then out to the Arabian Sea.

> This has been the route preferred by the United States for well over a decade. However, one thing has long stood in the way of this becoming reality: Radical Islamic militants in the region.

In summary, evidence suggests that the U.S. planned to invade Afghanistan even before the tragic events of 9/11. While the reasons are somewhat speculative, the weight of the evidence points to the Taliban’s obstruction in allowing Western oil companies to build a Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

Twelve years later, the U.S. military remains and will remain in Afghanistan while the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline is being constructed with completion plans set for 2017. Iran’s competing pipeline project will be completed by the end of 2014 and is catching the attention of China, Russia, India, and others. The U.S. cannot allow renegade regimes, like Iran, to dictate the flow of natural resources in this important region. Therefore, the U.S. government has inflicted punitive economic and political measures upon Iran in an effort to bring it into submission.

Note: The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were both “resource wars” sold to the American public under the false pretense of WOT. America’s empire of 700+ military bases in 130+ nations serves as a global oil protection service, not a national military seeking to 'protect American citizens'.

Instead of protecting their nation’s borders, the U.S. military is used by the Washington elites to protect the petrodollar system. The foundations of the American empire are now crumbling as emerging nations are no longer willing to spend their lives and their new found wealth propping up the U.S. consumer. Nor do they have any desire to tolerate the belligerence of the U.S. war machine.

So in a nut shell, it's all about a war for resources. And the WOT just an excuse to fool the gullible public and divert attention from America's oil cartels on which their military industrial complex depends, all of which are vital for America's aim of establishing a New World Order (NWO).

 

[SrNair]

India & Pakistan can never become allies not because i want it that way, the partition has left a deep scar on both nations and it looks like none of us are ready to forgive or forget. The most we can do is increase trade and avoid war.
India will use Afghanistan to create trouble in Pakistan's western borders, it doesn't matter whether you don't want this to happen or not, this decision rests in the hand of Indian establishment. I believe Afghanistan will have to strike a balance in its relations with Pakistan & India.

Build relations with Russia is important but i agree, India will remain Russia's main ally in South Asia. We just need Russia for trade and business.

USA is only helping India as a counter balance against China. Honestly i don't think USA would want India to become world power but just a regional power being able to challenge China's rising influence in South, Central Asia and ME.

You are right bro.Partition creates a deep scar in subcontinent.But India begin to take interest in Afghanistan seriously just after an incident and you may know that.1999 Indian Airlines hijack and you know very well where it is landed it is in Kandahar.
Thats single incident creates so much provocation in GoI.Till then Pakistan can give active airsupport to Taliban inside the Afghanistan.May we show some small interest in earlier times but we never interested in Afghanistan like you mentioned .But this single incident change the whole picture and India support to the Afghanistan increased in multiple times with active 2 billion$ support.
So in sense it is the Pakistan that drag India into Afghanistan.Pakistan's anti India measures with Taliban change entire strategic culture in GoI.If Pakistan dont use Taliban in 1999 IA incident we will not show this much interest in Afghanistan.
Now we have an airbase in Tajikistan.It is sure a civilwar will broke out in Afghanistan just after NATO withdraw.But India alread prepared for any eventuality.Not for the offense against Pakistan but only as a defence measures

US dont need us as a global power.But we decide about our power.US dont have any role in that.We will determine our reach not US

 

[Informant]

Michael Sheuer is a nightmare for Pakistani "liberals".

If any Pakistani were to say what he says -- that Israel controls the US Congress, that Pakistan's behavior in Afghanistan is guided by its national interests, that American foreign policy promotes extremism in the Muslim world -- he would be dismissed as a jihadi lunatic.

But he is white, an American and ex-CIA to boot, so the "liberals" can't use their brainless, formulaic rants on him.

But wait ... he does have a beard .... hmm... maybe he is a jihadi after all....

What is your hard on for liberals? Fucking chip on the shoulder. Rightwingers equally berrate Army/ISI as oes the left.
Loser.

 

[Developereo]

To be honest, there are no true liberals in Pakistan in my view.

It's probably a mistake to talk about liberal individuals. It's ideas and policy positions which are liberal, and any one individual may have a host of positions, only some of which may be liberal.

There are many prominent people in Pakistan who are champions of social democracy, which I consider to be the cornerstone of liberalism.

My comment was more about certain high profile columnists whose columns don't fit the bill of true liberalism.

Anyway, getting a bit off-topic, I suppose...

What is your hard on for liberals?

I don't oppose liberalism -- quite the opposite.

I oppose self-proclaimed pseudo-liberals whose comments and policy positions are directly antithetical to liberal principles.

 

[Solomon2]

I oppose self-proclaimed pseudo-liberals whose comments and policy positions are directly antithetical to liberal principles.

Yourself included?

 

[Developereo]

Yourself included?

Which of my positions contradicts liberal principles?

 

[Solomon2]

Which of my positions contradicts liberal principles?

You hold that only anti-Zionist Jews are "real" Jews, thus denying freedom of worship, freedom of expression, and the principle of democratic self-determination.

 

[Juice]

You guys made the mess (Taliban).

 

[Jaanbaz]

You are right bro.Partition creates a deep scar in subcontinent.But India begin to take interest in Afghanistan seriously just after an incident and you may know that.1999 Indian Airlines hijack and you know very well where it is landed it is in Kandahar.
Thats single incident creates so much provocation in GoI.Till then Pakistan can give active airsupport to Taliban inside the Afghanistan.May we show some small interest in earlier times but we never interested in Afghanistan like you mentioned .But this single incident change the whole picture and India support to the Afghanistan increased in multiple times with active 2 billion$ support.
So in sense it is the Pakistan that drag India into Afghanistan.Pakistan's anti India measures with Taliban change entire strategic culture in GoI.If Pakistan dont use Taliban in 1999 IA incident we will not show this much interest in Afghanistan.
Now we have an airbase in Tajikistan.It is sure a civilwar will broke out in Afghanistan just after NATO withdraw.But India alread prepared for any eventuality.Not for the offense against Pakistan but only as a defence measures

US dont need us as a global power.But we decide about our power.US dont have any role in that.We will determine our reach not US

I do not hate India or Indians. On a individual level we can interact and be friends but on state to state level as i have mentioned before there is too much mistrust between us. I don't know when India got involved in Afghanistan but Afghanistan has always been anti Pakistan.
You just mentioned India's base in Tajikistan. I am just saying even India is being used by USA to counter Chinese influence otherwise what business does India have in Tajikistan?
USA will maintain CIA bases and some of its troops, its not fully withdrawing from Afghanistan. USA is not leaving this region. Afghanistan war gave USA great chance to grab resources in Central Asia & undiscovered oil and gas in Balochistan and Sindh.

 

[Developereo]

You hold that only anti-Zionist Jews are "real" Jews, thus denying freedom of worship, freedom of expression, and the principle of democratic self-determination.

Not at all.

I have always maintained that Zionism is to Judaism as Islamism is to Islam -- they both tarnish the name of their associated faith.

It is, in fact, Zionists who have tried to make Zionism a religious requirement of Judaism, suggesting that non-Zionists are not true Jews.

This has always been my position and all my comments will confirm that.

 

[AUz]

Extremely simplistic argument! I think you're way out of sync with reality! You need to brush up on your geopolitics and the great game being played by the US of A. What you've mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with their so called WOT in Afghanistan.

If you are not familiar with Operation Cyclone, do spend some time researching this interesting piece of U.S. history.

So let's see what this “New Great Game” is all about.

The Real Reasons Behind the Afghanistan War

> Afghanistan is strategically located in the resource-rich region of Central Asia. Amid the rise of many emerging nations in search of new oil supplies, Central Asia has become ground zero in what is a new scramble for natural resources.

> It has been estimated that the entire Caspian Sea is full of oil and natural gas, starting from Azerbaijan and continuing to the opposite shore in the territory of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. These energy deposits take on enormous importance given their close proximity to the rising energy hungry powers of China and India. In addition, because of the expected depletion of the oil deposits in Alaska and the North Sea around the year 2015, the West is aggressively seeking access to new sources of energy supplies.

> In 2010, it was reported that a small team of Pentagon officials and American geologists had discovered vast amounts of untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan worth nearly $3 trillion.

> Rewind to the US sponsored 'Color revolutions' in the Central Asian Republics, the latest being Ukraine. This is what Brzezinski, who is a former Presidential advisor and a member of both the Bilderbergers and the Council on Foreign Relations had said:

"America’s global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained… A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world’s three most advanced and economically productive regions…most of the world’s physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil."

> The difficulty in exploiting the natural resources within Central Asia is one of transport not exploration. Geographically, there are several potential pathways for these pipelines. Two of these include:
1. A pipeline running south from the Caspian Sea, crossing through Iran, and out into the Black Sea.
2. A pipeline from the Caspian that traverses Afghanistan and Pakistan, and then out to the Arabian Sea.

> This has been the route preferred by the United States for well over a decade. However, one thing has long stood in the way of this becoming reality: Radical Islamic militants in the region.

In summary, evidence suggests that the U.S. planned to invade Afghanistan even before the tragic events of 9/11. While the reasons are somewhat speculative, the weight of the evidence points to the Taliban’s obstruction in allowing Western oil companies to build a Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

Twelve years later, the U.S. military remains and will remain in Afghanistan while the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline is being constructed with completion plans set for 2017. Iran’s competing pipeline project will be completed by the end of 2014 and is catching the attention of China, Russia, India, and others. The U.S. cannot allow renegade regimes, like Iran, to dictate the flow of natural resources in this important region. Therefore, the U.S. government has inflicted punitive economic and political measures upon Iran in an effort to bring it into submission.

Note: The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were both “resource wars” sold to the American public under the false pretense of WOT. America’s empire of 700+ military bases in 130+ nations serves as a global oil protection service, not a national military seeking to 'protect American citizens'.

Instead of protecting their nation’s borders, the U.S. military is used by the Washington elites to protect the petrodollar system. The foundations of the American empire are now crumbling as emerging nations are no longer willing to spend their lives and their new found wealth propping up the U.S. consumer. Nor do they have any desire to tolerate the belligerence of the U.S. war machine.

So in a nut shell, it's all about a war for resources. And the WOT just an excuse to fool the gullible public and divert attention from America's oil cartels on which their military industrial complex depends, all of which are vital for America's aim of establishing a New World Order (NWO).

Any source of this trans-Afghanistan pipeline being constructed? What is the current state?

American military protecting the flow of resources and petro-dollar system? You know if this is the case...then who's the biggest winner?

The Arabs!

This petro-dollar system has enabled Arabs to fund puritanical Islam all over the globe...U.S fighting Islamic insurgents to protect the system that is funding the very insurgent and their ideological base? In short, U.S is fighting against itself then? lol

No wonder it has been more than a decade and war is still at starting point..Nothing has been achieved.

 

[Developereo]

1. A pipeline running south from the Caspian Sea, crossing through Iran, and out into the Black Sea.
2. A pipeline from the Caspian that traverses Afghanistan and Pakistan, and then out to the Arabian Sea.

Actually, it is Russia that prefers the second option. Russia wants to have as much leverage over Europe's energy supplies as possible, and wants to divert CAR resources towards Asia -- away from Europe.

The US and Europe want the CAR resources to come to Europe.

 

[Solomon2]

I have always maintained that Zionism is to Judaism as Islamism is to Islam -- they both tarnish the name of their associated faith.

It's gross, disgusting, and dishonest to equate peace-loving Zionists with sturm-und-drang Islamists.

Nor is the Muslim and Jewish approach to violent extremism equivalent. When a Jew commits unjustifiable violence against a non-Jew the overwhelming response of the Jewish community is to reject that person and make it a priority to prosecute them for their crime. When a Muslim commits unjustifiable violence against a non-Muslim the overwhelming Muslim response is to blame the non-Muslim for somehow offending the Muslim. Until that changes, I think Muslim-majority states will always be in a state of perpetual turmoil as citizens commit crimes against each other, justifying themselves on the basis that their victim was either a non-Muslim who committed an offence or a Muslim who wasn't "really" Muslim.

It is, in fact, Zionists who have tried to make Zionism a religious requirement of Judaism, suggesting that non-Zionists are not true Jews.

The claim that Zionists hold that non-Zionists are "not true Jews" is yours, not mine.