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WASHINGTON DIARY: India-Pakistan conundrum

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WASHINGTON DIARY: India-Pakistan conundrum —Dr Manzur Ejaz

Pakistan, with a regressing economy, cannot keep up with Indian defence outlays even on proportional basis. Therefore, Pakistan has no choice but to detract and pull India back through other means

Like many last decades, the recent Indo-Pak talks in Delhi did not make any breakthrough. As usual, they provided the forum for both countries to restate their positions. The US can force the horse to the water, but cannot make it drink. As a matter of fact, Indo-Pak reconciliation is becoming more difficult every passing year because of increasing scarcity of water, a mutual desire to pull the other side down, and conflicts riddling societies in both countries. Sometimes it appears that keeping the tensions up serves both sides.

Pakistan was adamant to put the Kashmir and water issues on the agenda, while India was mainly interested in terrorism originating from Pakistan. For Pakistan, the territory of Kashmir may not be as important as the water issue. If the Pakistani claims are valid, then Indian infringements into the rivers running from its territory into Pakistan will leave major parts of Pakistan barren. Agriculture is not possible in Punjab and Sindh without river water. Therefore, unless Pakistan is assured on the supply of water, it will never abandon the proxies that can keep India on its toes by destabilising Kashmir.

Many world experts have predicted that future wars will be fought over water. States within India, like Punjab and Sindh in Pakistan, are continuously at each other’s throats because of this scarce natural resource. If federating units within India and Pakistan cannot forgo their claims, how will the two hostile nations? Therefore, the Indo-Pak dispute over water in the garb of the Kashmir problem is not unique and will not go away unless credible international organisations provide effective guarantees.

Besides the real issue of water, future scenarios are also an unending source of tension. India is growing fast and may want to leave Pakistan behind so that the competition between the two neighbours becomes irrelevant. Following the Reagan strategy against Russia to raise defence expenditures to the level that your enemy breaks down if it tries to compete, India, by military expansion, is forcing Pakistan to follow suit and economically get destroyed.

Pakistan, with a regressing economy, cannot keep up with Indian defence outlays even on proportional basis. Therefore, Pakistan has no choice but to detract and pull India back through other means. Pakistan’s strategy has not worked very well because, despite the Kashmir issue, India has grown steadily. Probably, Pakistan’s military leadership is aware of its unsuccessful strategy and, therefore, trying to strengthen the state institutions to match Indian economic growth. However, it cannot let go of instruments developed to keep India distracted.

Besides the real geographic and economic issues between India and Pakistan, the public opinion in both countries has hardened. The new electronic media, run by not-so-well-groomed people, looks for the easy formula to dub villains in a situation. The Indian media quickly blames Pakistan for any bomb blast in their country and the Pakistani media reflexively traces the tragic incidents on its territory to an Indian conspiracy. The situation has become so messy that it is hard to tell who is doing what.

The public in both countries accept the media versions because of changing public psyche due to internal conflicts and extreme rightwing forces donning the mantle of patriotism. While Pakistan is fighting the Taliban and other jihadi outfits, India is also mired in communal, ethnic and guerrilla insurgency. The Gujarat massacre of Muslims, the Shiv Sena crusade to cleanse Maharashtra and Mumbai of North Indians, and the Maoist guerrilla war are just a few things that have embittered the public psyche. A psyche born out of a constant conflict-ridden atmosphere can easily be turned against other nations.

The right wing’s monopoly over patriotism in Pakistan, a well-entrenched phenomenon, has been replicated in India. The rise of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), especially the Narendra Modi brand, and the likes of Bal Keshav Thackeray, founder of Shive Sena, have become the standard bearers of national pride. They have pushed the Congress Party to the right as well in pursuit of patriotism. The decline of communist parties in North India has also been responsible for the unchecked rise of a jingoistic style of nationalism. The dynamics of generating hatred are becoming much more powerful than the forces preaching reconciliation within the country and in the international arena.

Settlement of longstanding issues between India and Pakistan is becoming more difficult than it was in the past. The fight over water with hardening public opinion in both countries is further complicating the situation. No one knows how and where the chips are going to fall.

The writer can be reached at manzurejaz@yahoo.com
 
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The article is pretty much good, specially role of the media.
However...
Many world experts have predicted that future wars will be fought over water. States within India, like Punjab and Sindh in Pakistan, are continuously at each other’s throats because of this scarce natural resource. If federating units within India and Pakistan cannot forgo their claims, how will the two hostile nations? Therefore, the Indo-Pak dispute over water in the garb of the Kashmir problem is not unique and will not go away unless credible international organisations provide effective guarantees.

The water issue is not much as it is made out to be. Kudos to conspiracy theories.
The IWT is still non-violated. Most of the issues are consequesnces of Pakistan's bad policies in this regard.

The public in both countries accept the media versions because of changing public psyche due to internal conflicts and extreme rightwing forces donning the mantle of patriotism. While Pakistan is fighting the Taliban and other jihadi outfits, India is also mired in communal, ethnic and guerrilla insurgency. The Gujarat massacre of Muslims, the Shiv Sena crusade to cleanse Maharashtra and Mumbai of North Indians, and the Maoist guerrilla war are just a few things that have embittered the public psyche. A psyche born out of a constant conflict-ridden atmosphere can easily be turned against other nations.

The author equated the Taliban issue with Maosit/Naxalite issues. This shows author's lacks of knowledge about these movements in India.
Gujrat's incident was indeed blot on India. But it has been several years. Situation is completely different now. At present, Gujrat is fastest growing region in country.

The right wing’s monopoly over patriotism in Pakistan, a well-entrenched phenomenon, has been replicated in India. The rise of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), especially the Narendra Modi brand, and the likes of Bal Keshav Thackeray, founder of Shive Sena, have become the standard bearers of national pride. They have pushed the Congress Party to the right as well in pursuit of patriotism. The decline of communist parties in North India has also been responsible for the unchecked rise of a jingoistic style of nationalism. The dynamics of generating hatred are becoming much more powerful than the forces preaching reconciliation within the country and in the international arena.

BJP lost last two elections. They are winning in Gujrat because of excellent development and growth.
Also Bal Thankrey (ShivSena leader) lost in elections and Congress is in charge both in Maharashta and center.
Communists has, generally, not ruled in nortern India in recent times. I do not know what is the point.
This adds to the points that author do not have sufficient knowledge about Indian politics and events.
 
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"The water issue is not much as it is made out to be. Kudos to conspiracy theories."

Please explain how water doesn't have a massive impact on two countries totaling 1.33B people and growing> Generally, it is a global concern and has a very specific impact on S. Asia. I don't think the issue is understated but await your reply...

"The IWT is still non-violated."

There seems some question however, even if not, is the IWT still a valid mechanism as currently configured?

"Most of the issues are consequesnces of Pakistan's bad policies in this regard..."

With respect to water management? How so? Please elaborate...

"This shows author's lacks of knowledge about these movements in India."

But not Pakistan, I presume? How so the difference?

The author's points are specifically related to how these conflicts are postured within the public's perception of each country. Again, you make a definitive declaration yet show no supporting argument to substantiate it. In effect, you dismiss the argument as beneath consideration and only worthy of contempt.

"Situation is completely different now. At present, Gujrat is fastest growing region in country..."

Thus, I presume from above, any issues ethnically/religiously based are now moot because of a recent change in the local economic climate?

ek_indian, I ask these questions in all honesty as I DON'T KNOW but won't learn in the absence of an underlying argument to support your contentions.

For myself, I recognized some three years ago that the arms race was one that couldn't be sustained by Pakistan-even proportionately. I challenged Pakistanis to cease such and dare to bare their throats to India while using their national treasure to address other issues. Clearly an unpopular notion here and one easily dismissed as originating from a "ferenghi who just doesn't care to understand".

I disagree. I see my thought as unassailable based upon economic realities but it strikes to the core of many long-held tenets that fashion and hold Pakistan to its current form.

Many here might have a vested interest in the maintenence of such. Others can't look beyond the patriotic/nationalist veil pulled over their eyes. Some see it sustainable if only "great powers" will find them indispensible as a club to wield for their own ambitions (read America or the PRC depending on which day it is).

Anyway, I look forward to your elaboration. I believe water is, possibly, the single greatest resource issue facing the region. If so and if resources are an increasingly prominent portion of any S. Asian nat'l security strategy (and it should be) then here may well lie the key to regional transformation.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
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WASHINGTON DIARY: India-Pakistan conundrum —Dr Manzur Ejaz

Pakistan, with a regressing economy, cannot keep up with Indian defence outlays even on proportional basis. Therefore, Pakistan has no choice but to detract and pull India back through other means

Ok what are other means can someone plz tell
 
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nothing new as he said the Pak military cannot lose the strategic assets to lose india.India is also chalking out doctrines to tighten the screws on pakistan.The Monkey trap doctrine,Cold Start ,Dams on the indus with discreet storage facilities etc are all new tools in India's arsenal.The earlier line of thought that a united pakistan is not being echoed in indias establishment after 26\11.They seem to prefer a Jehadi openly declaring his intent than a closet jehadi wrt to India in the present scenario.There also rumours in India that GOI is working with Russia,Iran and CARS to strengthen the NA to horrendous proportions is in the plans.
 
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"The water issue is not much as it is made out to be. Kudos to conspiracy theories."

Please explain how water doesn't have a massive impact on two countries totaling 1.33B people and growing> Generally, it is a global concern and has a very specific impact on S. Asia. I don't think the issue is understated but await your reply...

"The IWT is still non-violated."

There seems some question however, even if not, is the IWT still a valid mechanism as currently configured?

"Most of the issues are consequesnces of Pakistan's bad policies in this regard..."

With respect to water management? How so? Please elaborate...

"This shows author's lacks of knowledge about these movements in India."

But not Pakistan, I presume? How so the difference?

The author's points are specifically related to how these conflicts are postured within the public's perception of each country. Again, you make a definitive declaration yet show no supporting argument to substantiate it. In effect, you dismiss the argument as beneath consideration and only worthy of contempt.

"Situation is completely different now. At present, Gujrat is fastest growing region in country..."

Thus, I presume from above, any issues ethnically/religiously based are now moot because of a recent change in the local economic climate?

ek_indian, I ask these questions in all honesty as I DON'T KNOW but won't learn in the absence of an underlying argument to support your contentions.

For myself, I recognized some three years ago that the arms race was one that couldn't be sustained by Pakistan-even proportionately. I challenged Pakistanis to cease such and dare to bare their throats to India while using their national treasure to address other issues. Clearly an unpopular notion here and one easily dismissed as originating from a "ferenghi who just doesn't care to understand".

I disagree. I see my thought as unassailable based upon economic realities but it strikes to the core of many long-held tenets that fashion and hold Pakistan to its current form.

Many here might have a vested interest in the maintenence of such. Others can't look beyond the patriotic/nationalist veil pulled over their eyes. Some see it sustainable if only "great powers" will find them indispensible as a club to wield for their own ambitions (read America or the PRC depending on which day it is).

Anyway, I look forward to your elaboration. I believe water is, possibly, the single greatest resource issue facing the region. If so and if resources are an increasingly prominent portion of any S. Asian nat'l security strategy (and it should be) then here may well lie the key to regional transformation.

Thanks.:usflag:
GaribNawaz is a Bohra muslim from Gujarat and he will give you a much better idea than most of us here sir.
 
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"Dams on the indus with discreet storage facilities etc are all new tools in India's arsenal."

Is this a fact? If so, how does that jibe with IWT and would you consider such to be an ethical and morally-sound decision?

Overall, your comments seemed designed for provocation here. You're not trolling a bit are you?

Thanks.:usflag:
 
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"Dams on the indus with discreet storage facilities etc are all new tools in India's arsenal."

Is this a fact? If so, how does that jibe with IWT and would you consider such to be an ethical and morally-sound decision?

Overall, your comments seemed designed for provocation here. You're not trolling a bit are you?

Thanks.:usflag:

sir Earlier they used to honour and are honouring the IWT but that wont be anywhere so in the future .Leaving the morality aside they are certain domestic compulsions which they have to fullfill .They built one of the largest Hydel projects on Sutlej and if the GOI says that they don't have storage facility for a project producing 9000MW electricity I won't buy it
 
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"sir Earlier they used to honour and are honouring the IWT but that wont be anywhere so in the future."

They did and they are but you say the won't in the future. Isn't it best to let the future determine that on this issue while working to make the existing agreement which is being honored better?

"...if the GOI says that they don't have storage facility I won't buy it"

Meaning that your government insists that "discreet storage facilities" don't exist but you neither believe the GoI nor hope that's the case?

You understand, of course, that water is life. All other issues can be relegated far to any country's back-bench but this will be why nations fight wars in the future.

Shall India and Pakistan be the first and would a radioactive S. Asia suit India's needs? Nothing is so red-line as nat'l survival and nothing is so directly affixed to nat'l survival as fresh water.

Let's hope your government doesn't lie to you on this issue and that the IWT can be strengthened to become the foundation for solid Pakistan-India progress on other issues offering some modest degree of flexibility.

There is no flexibility here and the resource will only become more valuable with time and increases in people (thus use) while it's availability appears finite at best.

Thanks:usflag:.
 
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"sir Earlier they used to honour and are honouring the IWT but that wont be anywhere so in the future."

They did and they are but you say the won't in the future. Isn't it best to let the future determine that on this issue while working to make the existing agreement which is being honored better?

"...if the GOI says that they don't have storage facility I won't buy it"

Meaning that your government insists that "discreet storage facilities" don't exist but you neither believe the GoI nor hope that's the case?

You understand, of course, that water is life. All other issues can be relegated far to any country's back-bench but this will be why nations fight wars in the future.

Shall India and Pakistan be the first and would a radioactive S. Asia suit India's needs? Nothing is so red-line as nat'l survival and nothing is so directly affixed to nat'l survival as fresh water.

Let's hope your government doesn't lie to you on this issue and that the IWT can be strengthened to become the foundation for solid Pakistan-India progress on other issues offering some modest degree of flexibility.

There is no flexibility here and the resource will only become more valuable with time and increases in people (thus use) while it's availability appears finite at best.

Thanks:usflag:.
We were already had three conflicts and a low intensity war since 1947 reagrding water "the Kashmir conflict".It doesn't get any much worse than this sir.Regarding the GOI statements I used to work for the GOI and so I have insight into how these guys take decisions

PS:I frequently read your posts on WAB and Iam honoured to interact with you
 
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@S-2:

Please explain how water doesn't have a massive impact on two countries totaling 1.33B people and growing> Generally, it is a global concern and has a very specific impact on S. Asia. I don't think the issue is understated but await your reply...

I was talking in terms of various allegations made that "India is stealing water" and so on. There are various threads even on this forum as well.
I know it is a pressing issue and both govt should work together for the better. This would be best possible solution.

There seems some question however, even if not, is the IWT still a valid mechanism as currently configured?

Below are the supporting links.

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers37\paper3676.html

Indus water treaty is intact,India-Pakistan commissioners - Breaking News, Pakistan News, National, World, Business, Cricket, Education, Health, Stock Exchange | OnePakistan.com

One good signal came when our Indus Waters Commissioner Mr Jamaat Ali Shah left for India last week for talks with his counterpart. Reported in Nawa-e-Waqt (May 31, 2009), Indus Waters Treaty Commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah, while leaving for New Delhi to talk about waters shared by India and Pakistan, said that Pakistan was getting its share of waters under the Indus Treaty and that building a dam was the right of India. He said less water in Pakistani rivers was because of lack of rain, not because India had blocked it. *

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

"Most of the issues are consequesnces of Pakistan's bad policies in this regard..."

Experts urge provincial govts to build dams | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

They are not doing anything for 36 MAF of water. All they are shouting that India is stealing 0.2 MAF of water. This could easily be solved without much ho-ha.

"This shows author's lacks of knowledge about these movements in India."

(1) The Naxalite/Maoist as a general, are not fighting for separate land or "religious cause". They are more like installing a particular governance system.
(2) Army is not involved to counter them. Recently paramilitary forces were sent for the purpose and since then these movements has suffered some severe blows including arrest of some senior leader.
(3) They are present (not dominant) in 1/4 of India as myth propogated. Both are two different things.
(4) They are hit-&-run type jungle warriors. They neither have money nor resources to carry out such a large scale operations as in case of talibans.
(5) Even in international discussions, they are not considered a potential issue.
(6) Lastly, these movements beecame powerful due to political reasons. Now people has began realising they are not exactly fighting for a cause. If govt is seriuos, they are not much of threat.

Below thread might be of some help to you.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...maoists-insurgency-targets-rights-groups.html

"Situation is completely different now. At present, Gujrat is fastest growing region in country..."

I have already said this riot is a blot on India. However to say they are winning because of religious politics is far fetched. Also the case is still going on in courts.
There is growing awakening in masses and main BJP-rival won handsomely. People are more focused on economic development rather than this whole religion sh!t.

Lastly Gujrat was not a Indo-Pakistan thing. Pakistan should not become spokeperson for Indian muslims. Indian muslims has plenty for own leader to do this. This issue has been twisted a bit as well just to malign India. I am not defending the riot. It was tragic case where Indian killed Indian. Whoever did that, should be hanged. But to question India's secularism in general, is something a lie.

Below is a thread which I found heelpful. Please have the link (post#54 in particular)..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/25095-barbaric-gujrat-massacre-truth-behind-story-4.html

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I thought I do not have to produce links as they are discussed many times on this forum. However I will try to do as you suggested.
I also support Indo-Pakistan talks regarding water issue. Both countries should work towards the same. If possible modify IWT to suit both parties or work on joint projects. However just repeating nonsense like India is stealing water does not solve anything. This is a myth that is told to Pakistani people. And now people actually believe them. This is what makes things worse.

P.S. --> It is somewhat similar to "India did Mumbai on its own" just to malign Pakistan.
 
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The Maoists are a reaction against the excesses of the indian feudal society I would rather welcome.It was due to them that GOI is going for the development rhetoric
 
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