War with India not an option, says Pakistan PM:

[I.R.A]

A very mature and apt statement, war is death for each party involved.

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Billion strong humanity ..........a laughable claim.

A billion ..... mostly insecure rich and ripe on superstition, most of whom don't even get to know people of another city in their own country, who end up beating foreigners because they find them alien, who fear other human's skin color, who out of their superstitious nature start worshiping a dustbin that looks like a kangaroo .......... they hardly have any exposure to the world outside their own streets and cities ......... and most probably would be the first ones to fart and shit their trousers when faced with an opponent who knows how to beat an insecure hateful extremist racist bigots rear ............ they don't know yet what they are up against.

 

[RealNapster]

i respect your opinion

Thank you.

But I disagree with you

Completely acceptable.

Who cares about India

If you care about Pakistan. You should care about india.

We have nothing in common with Indians anyways.

But we have many things in common with China right ? Dont tell me.

Why be associated with Hindus

We were.talking about India, not hindus. And India have equal number of muslims as we have in Pakistan. Just that you know.

Also, trading and living in peace with India do not associate you with Hindus.

lol

Lulwa
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Bro your thoughts are like a breath of fresh air. Consistently.

Thank you. I am just trying to be practical. Emotions doesnt work always.

India is not enemy because of Kashmir.

Kashmir is a hauwwa.

India is enemy because it is kafir Hindu

Here i disagree. China is more kaafir then India. But they are 'brothers'. So why can't India ? Answer : many reasons including Kashmir. Many people in Pakistan hate India because they think 'right or wrong' that India is killing muslims torturing them and not providing them their basic right that is freedom. If Kashmir is solved then we have no other reason to hate you.

Just think about this. If kaafir china can be brother why cant partial kaafir India ?

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

And what is stand still agreement if you could explain ????? Do you think it's some holy agreement which will nullify any subsequent agreements ??

can you tell me any agreement that is holy? any agreemennt can be broken with that argument. the said agreement was a right to self determination of local people.Had Kashmir wanted to join India it would not have sent a standtill agreeement to each party but a straight forward instrument to acccession to India.But it did not.

FYI, a stand-still agreement is nothing but and agreement/promise to continue business as usual or to maintain the status-quo until a new agreement is penned and agreed upon. If you don't know please learn that first.

you are missing the whole point..India refused to sign the standstill agreement when asked Why?instead they called the kasmiri leaders to new delhi? and they refused...now that added to the fears, fears Kashmir might go independent or with Pakistan based on the majority muslim population other than cultural and geographic reasons in case a referendum / plebiscite happens.Indians bought the top guy and he had him signed both without any further queries.. this is a straight forward robbery of Kashmiri peoples right .

Ironically the next agreement was INSTRUMENT OF ACCESSION with India (the reason for which is the involvement of Pakistani proxies in Kashmir's civil unrest), which is actually the right given to every princely state under British dominion. And tell some correct facts friend, I bet you won't be able to state or show an accession signed between Hyderabad and Pakistan, since he choose to join neither Pakistan or India, so please don't lie.

Pakistani proxies jumped into Kashmir in October way after India refused to sign the standstill agreement that was sent to new delhi on august 12th.
Regarding Hyderabad and Junagadh your own authors and leaders say the decision was reverted on bot provinces, one of them carried out by a military take over and an ironic plebiscite (99.5% in favor of india) under Indian admin while the other one taken over with no plebiscite and a military takeover(operation polo). Nawab of Hyderabad changed his decision of independence and considered joining Pakistan once he was told by Britishers that Hyderabad has to join either of the two dominions.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Yes, we refused to sign the standstill agreement and expected the Kingdom to join India,

says everything i wanted ..
, thanks for proving my point..
you cant force anyone into accession..also proves your law and order tactics you adopted later for forced accession .

Moreover Kashmir didn't send an Instrument of Accession, initially just because they needed some time to think like most of the Kingdoms under British rule did.

invalidates your earlier point..you refused to give them time by NEGATING status quo.. see the contradictions. Did you give that time to hyderabad or junagadh?

NO. It was not India's fear, but Pakistan who feared that Kashmir would join India which eventually forced Pakistan to push in your proxies/non-state actors along with regulars into Kashmir.

cry a thousand rivers, wouldn't change the fact we only jumped in after india refused a status quo and pressured the govt. into accession by not signing a standstill agreement.Before partition Kashmir was pretty much moving towards an independence state till Britishers opposed the plan.Jinnah even sent a message on June 11th 1947 that Pakistan would have friendly relations with an independent Kashmir but India never gave such a gesture to Kashmiris. The tribes were actually welcomed by Kashmiris because of characters like ram chandra kak, they were hailed by the locals. there was even an uprising in Poonch. Do you have names of those women who were
raped? or people who were plundered? many of the vague references of such incidents come from those with congress leaning national conference.Muslim conference rejected such incidents. in case you dont know the Kashmir resistance against maharajas and dogras is much older and was at its peak during 30s. Im sure that one is a shocker for you. there was no Pakistan back then that you can lay blame on? it was always a lost war for Indians.

Why don't you bring in Baluchistan, especially "Khanate of Kalat" into the discussion

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/some-historical-inaccuracies.304218/

 

[padamchen]

Thank you. I am just trying to be practical. Emotions doesnt work always.

Here i disagree. China is more kaafir then India. But they are 'brothers'. So why can't India ? Answer : many reasons including Kashmir. Many people in Pakistan hate India because they think 'right or wrong' that India is killing muslims torturing them and not providing them their basic right that is freedom. If Kashmir is solved then we have no other reason to hate you.

Just think about this. If kaafir china can be brother why cant partial kaafir India ?

I do not think you guys are friends with the Chinese any more than you were with the Americans before them.

You think you are using them. They think they are using you.

But regardless of how anyone spins it my friend, the issues between India and Pakistan are Hindu v Muslim issues.

This is not an ordinary border dispute. You want to see any ordinary border dispute, even with a war fought in the past, see the one between India and China.

No bomb blasts. No massacres. No shots or shelling. No beheadings. No terror attacks. No safe havens for enemies of the state. No tunnels. No terror training camps. No non state actors by sea. No attacks on parliaments.

You get the point?

Its personal between us. And what is the difference between us if not for the Hindu and Muslim thing?

With Mumbai, your deep state also made it amply clear that it does not differentiate between Indian Hindus and Indian Muslims as fair targets.

So where is the question of half or full kafir?

For those who call the shots at your end, we are all kafir. Period. The fact that we share blood and did not convert is the genesis of the angst. The frustration of being left with a rump state after being de facto rulers of the entire land mass for a large part of the last millennium.

Cheers, Doc

 

[RealNapster]

I do not think you guys are friends with the Chinese any more than you were with the Americans before them.

You think you are using them. They think they are using you.

But regardless of how anyone spins it my friend, the issues between India and Pakistan are Hindu v Muslim issues.

This is not an ordinary border dispute. You want to see any ordinary border dispute, even with a war fought in the past, see the one between India and China.

No bomb blasts. No massacres. No shots or shelling. No beheadings. No terror attacks. No safe havens for enemies of the state. No tunnels. No terror training camps. No non state actors by sea. No attacks on parliaments.

You get the point?

Its personal between us. And what is the difference between us if not for the Hindu and Muslim thing?

With Mumbai, you deep state also made clear that it does not differentiate between Indian Hindus and Indian Muslims as fair targets.

So where is the question of half or full kafir?

For those who call the shots at your end, we are kafir. Period. The fact that we share blood and did not convert is the genesis of the angst. The frustration of being left with a rump state after being de facto rulers of the entire land mass for a large part of the last millennium.

Cheers, Doc

You may have more experience and experties then me but i live in the society you talking about. I am aware of the mindset. And i can pretty co fidently say that you solve kashmir as per Kashmiris well and you will force 70-80 million 'enemie minds' to think of you as 'friend' Or worse 'not an enemy anymore'. The other who will still blame you will surely exist but will lose their major point of argument and that is Kashmir. They will be no more able to reason why we hate India. Dont force on hindu part as we also have hindu population as well as sikhs. Despite what sikhs did to muslims in independence time you should see how our society treat them. The bad news regarding hjndus you listen sometimes are not a hindu muslim issue but a jagirdaari mindset. Which pretty much exist in India too.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Thank you.



Completely acceptable.



If you care about Pakistan. You should care about india.



But we have many things in common with China right ? Dont tell me.



We were.talking about India, not hindus. And India have equal number of muslims as we have in Pakistan. Just that you know.

Also, trading and living in peace with India do not associate you with Hindus.



Lulwa
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Thank you. I am just trying to be practical. Emotions doesnt work always.



Here i disagree. China is more kaafir then India. But they are 'brothers'. So why can't India ? Answer : many reasons including Kashmir. Many people in Pakistan hate India because they think 'right or wrong' that India is killing muslims torturing them and not providing them their basic right that is freedom. If Kashmir is solved then we have no other reason to hate you.

Just think about this. If kaafir china can be brother why cant partial kaafir India ?

You make some good points bro.

I have learned a lot from you.

However we can agree to disagree .

Thanks, it was a pleasure talking with you.

 

[RealNapster]

However we can agree to disagree .

Bilqul janab.