War is not an option,Pakistan ready for ‘conditional’ talks with India says Qureshi

[GumNaam]

the Kashmiri masses have been siding with Pakistan for 70 years and now India has set its eyes on PoJaK. This is not a good situation. You may be ok for calls of nuclear war sitting in the US but our people will perish in this unwanted game. We should be smarter and thwart the Western and Chinese game being played with us.

india has been eyeing AJK/GB for over 70 years as well and yet, has kept failing while this is a recent phenomenon that the Kashmiris under your occupation have started siding with Pakistan as of the mid 1980s...they weren't siding with Pakistan before and were more geared towards being an independent country. Now, they want to JOIN Pakistan as you can see by the waving of the Pakistani flags in the indian occupied Kashmir. its too late to do anything now...you maybe new here but I forewarned well over a year ago that the whole intention of the u.s. was to bring india up as a sacrificial cow against CHINA...after 20+ years of directly & indirectly feeding india economically & militarily, it came as a shock to the western powers on Feb 27 all the way to today that india can't even manage to handle a nation like Pakistan that is 1/6th its size so there's no chance in hell that india could even last a day against China. therefore, they have gone to their plan B...break india into a civil war like situation, and then barge into india in the name of peace keeping and thereby gain a foot hold against China right next to its underbelly. China knows this...hence their statement that they modi's move as a threat to their sovereignty. They are going to act accordingly both in Ladhak AND in Sikkim, they already know what the american plan is. nuclear war isn't gonna happen, u.s. will see to it; india as a barren nuclear wasteland is of no use to the united states, they'll make sure that indian nukes are neutralized before their "peace keeping" masquerade against China begins...

yeah...welcome to the global chess game. india should've remained neutral & maintained its nonaligned status instead of taking sides.

 

[jericho]

The problem is he has unilaterally changed the goalposts, so suddenly the abrogation of 370 is okay according to Qureishi. Bhaktistan is enjoying this freebie from Qureishi.

I dont think anyone in Pak including SMQ said that 370 abrogation is okay, did he? And if was mentioned earlier that 370 was never recognized by Pak, that was part of Indian constitution, whether its there or not wasnt never issue, the issue is the curfew imposed on Kashmiris, military presence, clampdown on Kashmiri, Kashmiri leaders arrest and the change in demographic of Kashmir valley to weaken Kashmiris, in all of these , Kashmiri people need support, that is why SMQ suggested that talks can only happen if Kashmiri leadership are released and Pak could meet with them, people are upset that SMQ said this but they forgetting that India for sure will never allow even this to happen

If the mention of talks are so sensitive to so many posters here then why was everyone so happy whenever Modi or Indian ministers are caught changing their stance of 'Kashmir is our internal matter' to 'Kashmir is bilateral issue' ?

 

[GumNaam]

Jinnah was probably incorrect as this situation would not have occurred if muslims lived with hindus without the shadow of partition. This was a fait accompli. This situation has come as a result of partition.

the discrimination that was alive and well among the hindus BEFORE the partition is what drove Jinnah to do the partition in the first place...don't forget, that he was once the strongest ambassador of Muslim hindu unity. His experience with the hindus is what changed his mind. Also don't forget the elections in the mid 1930s when Jinnah and Muslim League lost and lost MISERABLY while the congress won an overwhelming majority...it was the following discrimination against Muslims on beef, against mosques, Azans, Islamic customs that caused to same Muslims to change their mind.

 

[Placemat]

the discrimination that was alive and well among the hindus BEFORE the partition is what drove Jinnah to do the partition in the first place...don't forget, that he was once the strongest ambassador of Muslim hindu unity. His experience with the hindus is what changed his mind. Also don't forget the elections in the mid 1930s when Jinnah and Muslim League lost and lost MISERABLY while the congress won an overwhelming majority...it was the following discrimination against Muslims on beef, against mosques, Azans, Islamic customs that caused to same Muslims to change their mind.

Jinnah and Mulsims did not want land reforms. They did not want to lose their elite status. Nothing more. It was pure economical.

india has been eyeing AJK/GB for over 70 years as well and yet, has kept failing while this is a recent phenomenon that the Kashmiris under your occupation have started siding with Pakistan as of the mid 1980s...they weren't siding with Pakistan before and were more geared towards being an independent country. Now, they want to JOIN Pakistan as you can see by the waving of the Pakistani flags in the indian occupied Kashmir. its too late to do anything now...you maybe new here but I forewarned well over a year ago that the whole intention of the u.s. was to bring india up as a sacrificial cow against CHINA...after 20+ years of directly & indirectly feeding india economically & militarily, it came as a shock to the western powers on Feb 27 all the way to today that india can't even manage to handle a nation like Pakistan that is 1/6th its size so there's no chance in hell that india could even last a day against China. therefore, they have gone to their plan B...break india into a civil war like situation, and then barge into india in the name of peace keeping and thereby gain a foot hold against China right next to its underbelly. China knows this...hence their statement that they modi's move as a threat to their sovereignty. They are going to act accordingly both in Ladhak AND in Sikkim, they already know what the american plan is. nuclear war isn't gonna happen, u.s. will see to it; india as a barren nuclear wasteland is of no use to the united states, they'll make sure that indian nukes are neutralized before their "peace keeping" masquerade against China begins...

yeah...welcome to the global chess game. india should've remained neutral & maintained its nonaligned status instead of taking sides.

India until a few decades ago wanted to resolve by giving up PoJak. So it did not have 70 y of demands on this.
You overestimate your strengths based on one plane downed which cha see ed you and for the loss of a far superior plane.

 

[GumNaam]

Jinnah and Mulsims did not want land reforms. They did not want to lose their elite status. Nothing more. It was pure economical.

WHAT? Jinnah was from a low, middle class background, he was not one of those big agricultural land lords...

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Jinnah and Mulsims did not want land reforms. They did not want to lose their elite status. Nothing more. It was pure economical.

Seriously are you for real? We would have been happy in brahministan?? What are you smoking?

I dont think anyone in Pak including SMQ said that 370 abrogation is okay, did he? And if was mentioned earlier that 370 was never recognized by Pak, that was part of Indian constitution, whether its there or not wasnt never issue, the issue is the curfew imposed on Kashmiris, military presence, clampdown on Kashmiri, Kashmiri leaders arrest and the change in demographic of Kashmir valley to weaken Kashmiris, in all of these , Kashmiri people need support, that is why SMQ suggested that talks can only happen if Kashmiri leadership are released and Pak could meet with them, people are upset that SMQ said this but they forgetting that India for sure will never allow even this to happen

If the mention of talks are so sensitive to so many posters here then why was everyone so happy whenever Modi or Indian ministers are caught changing their stance of 'Kashmir is our internal matter' to 'Kashmir is bilateral issue' ?

I think you know I'm right on this one.

 

[GumNaam]

Jinnah and Mulsims did not want land reforms. They did not want to lose their elite status. Nothing more. It was pure economical.


India until a few decades ago wanted to resolve by giving up PoJak. So it did not have 70 y of demands on this.
You overestimate your strengths based on one plane downed which cha see ed you and for the loss of a far superior plane.

india has NEVER officially offered to give AJK/GB up, you really need stop making excuses out of thin air. And loss of our "far superior" plane? How many times have the pictures of your abhinonedone's unfired missiles have been posted on this forum alone? I'll ask you the same question that no indian has been able to answer as of yet...what exactly did abhinonedone shoot down that "superior aircraft" with??? a laser torpedo???

 

[masterchief_mirza]

india has NEVER officially offered to give AJK/GB up, you really need stop making excuses out of thin air. And loss of our "far superior" plane? How many times have the pictures of your abhinonedone's unfired missiles have been posted on this forum alone? I'll ask you the same question that no indian has been able to answer as of yet...what exactly did abhinonedone shoot down that "superior aircraft" with??? a laser torpedo???

Nice.

 

[PaulSimon]

Firstly, US will not leave Afghanistan. US presence in Afghanistan is very important to keep an eye on Russia and China.

US wants a deal from Pakistan/Taliban to continue its presence.

In return, US was willing to give Pakistan/Taliban the control of Afghanistan but Pakistan also wanted Kashmir on the table.

US is willing to give the Kashmir valley to Pakistan if Pakistan will go into a tight alliance with the US. In return Pakistan is also asking US to reciprocate. That is, US has to give up India while Pakistan will give up China.

The prospect of the deal between US and Pakistan/Taliban has sent chills down the spine of the Indian establishment who hurriedly scrapped Article 370 to secure the Kashmir Valley.

Playing a role in Afghanistan is least of India's worries at this time.

But once the deal is done, India is bound to lose Kashmir valley with Pakistan/Taliban putting military pressure on India while US, West and Islamic World will put its diplomatic weight behind Pakistan/Taliban.

Pakistan/Taliban will not have to worry about the US or the West at all.

Once US puts its weight behind Pakistan/Taliban taking over Kashmir, Europe and Arab world will just follow the US lead.

Only Russia will come to India's rescue but it will not be enough as Russian economy is not in a good shape.

China is the wildcard here. They may lend tacit support to India by staying neutral in the war between India and Pakistan/Taliban, If India settles Sino-Indian boundary dispute in China's favor.

 

[Placemat]

WHAT? Jinnah was from a low, middle class background, he was not one of those big agricultural land lords...

Influence.

 

[GumNaam]

Firstly, US will not leave Afghanistan. US presence in Afghanistan is very important to keep an eye on Russia and China.

US wants a deal from Pakistan/Taliban to continue its presence.

In return, US was willing to give Pakistan/Taliban the control of Afghanistan but Pakistan also wanted Kashmir on the table.

US is willing to give the Kashmir valley to Pakistan if Pakistan will go into a tight alliance with the US. In return Pakistan is also asking US to reciprocate. That is, US has to give up India while Pakistan will give up China.

The prospect of the deal between US and Pakistan/Taliban has sent chills down the spine of the Indian establishment who hurriedly scrapped Article 370 to secure the Kashmir Valley.

Playing a role in Afghanistan is least of India's worries at this time.

But once the deal is done, India is bound to lose Kashmir valley with Pakistan/Taliban putting military pressure on India while US, West and Islamic World will put its diplomatic weight behind Pakistan/Taliban.

Pakistan/Taliban will not have to worry about the US or the West at all.

Once US puts its weight behind Pakistan/Taliban taking over Kashmir, Europe and Arab world will just follow the US lead.

Only Russia will come to India's rescue but it will not be enough as Russian economy is not in a good shape.

China is the wildcard here. They may lend tacit support to India by staying neutral in the war between India and Pakistan/Taliban, If India settles Sino-Indian boundary dispute in China's favor.

so...what I'm about to tell you, is not just me, it is one of the plans that are being pursued in the power corridors of washington...don't ask me how I know this cuz I'm not gonna disclose that...but read it very carefully.

rest assured, Pakistan is NOT giving up a tried & true brotherly friend like China in exchange for selfish little slut that is the u.s. HOWEVER...there is SOME truth to what you ate saying...the u.s. has miserably failed to keep any tabs on China nor on Russia. this is where the deal between Pakistan & the u.s. comes in. Pakistan won't tolerate u.s. presence in Afghanistan and nor will China nor Russia. yes, rest assured, u.s. will be FORCED out of Afghanistan at the gunpoint of the Russian Spetsnaz if Putin has to. this where dismembering india comes in. yes, DISMEMBERING india...their is a "sato" (south asian treaty organization) in the near making and China knows that is going to be against China. There has been a very blunt and open discussion between Pakistan, China, Russia and America...the americans have openly said that they want to keep an eye on China & Russia along with that the u.s. WILL NOT STOP TRYING! so in the entire equation, the weakest military link that us india (bluntly put) as been made the sacrificial lamb that is to be dismembered into smaller countries that will be totally at america's mercy & command (yes weak as united india is, they never really let america turn them into a true front against China). China knows this, Pakistan knows this, Russia knows this. All the powers involved have agreed that we'll balkanize india and take in loyal, friendly states that will set off a NEW cold war. an america in india far less dangerous than an america in Afghanistan cuz america can directly use Afghanistan to instigate Islam related jihadi trouble from Afghanistan into Xinjiang and central asia. That type of militancy is not found in the muslims of india so...yeah, Pakistan, China & Russia have thrown india under the soon to hit american train in exchange for them leaving Afghanistan. america is STARVING for a "glorious" military victory like that of world war 2 where uncle sam swoops into to a normandy like d-day landing on the shores of mumbai and "saves" the oppressed minorities from the clutches of the nazi like fascist bjp regime & a hitler/mussolini like modi. But at the same time... China (and Pakistan) come in from the north (and the west) to secure their buffers against the american treachery that will soon follow after sato materializes...

Influence.

Again, WHAT???

 

[PaulSimon]

so...what I'm about to tell you, is not just me, it is one of the plans that are being pursued in the power corridors of washington...don't ask me how I know this cuz I'm not gonna disclose that...but read it very carefully.

rest assured, Pakistan is NOT giving up a tried & true brotherly friend like China in exchange for selfish little slut that is the u.s. HOWEVER...there is SOME truth to what you ate saying...the u.s. has miserably failed to keep any tabs on China nor on Russia. this is where the deal between Pakistan & the u.s. comes in. Pakistan won't tolerate u.s. presence in Afghanistan and nor will China nor Russia. yes, rest assured, u.s. will be FORCED out of Afghanistan at the gunpoint of the Russian Spetsnaz if Putin has to. this where dismembering india comes in. yes, DISMEMBERING india...their is a "sato" (south asian treaty organization) in the near making and China knows that is going to be against China. There has been a very blunt and open discussion between Pakistan, China, Russia and America...the americans have openly said that they want to keep an eye on China & Russia along with that the u.s. WILL NOT STOP TRYING! so in the entire equation, the weakest military link that us india (bluntly put) as been made the sacrificial lamb that is to be dismembered into smaller countries that will be totally at america's mercy & command (yes weak as united india is, they never really let america turn them into a true front against China). China knows this, Pakistan knows this, Russia knows this. All the powers involved have agreed that we'll balkanize india and take in loyal, friendly states that will set off a NEW cold war. an america in india far less dangerous than an america in Afghanistan cuz america can directly use Afghanistan to instigate Islam related jihadi trouble from Afghanistan into Xinjiang and central asia. That type of militancy is not found in the muslims of india so...yeah, Pakistan, China & Russia have thrown india under the soon to hit american train in exchange for them leaving Afghanistan. america is STARVING for a "glorious" military victory like that of world war 2 where uncle sam swoops into to a normandy like d-day landing on the shores of mumbai and "saves" the oppressed minorities from the clutches of the nazi like fascist bjp regime & a hitler/mussolini like modi. But at the same time... China (and Pakistan) come in from the north (and the west) to secure their buffers against the american treachery that will soon follow after sato materializes...

Yes US will let India be the scape goat only if Pakistan/Taliban agree to side with the US against Russia & China.

US tried this with India in Afghanistan but unfortunately for the US, India failed to deliver.

But how will balkanisation of India and US presence in balkanised India serve US interests against Russia and China if Pakistan/Taliban does not do a deal with the US?

Frankly, I am totally lost with your post.

 

[airmarshal]

What the f*ck is the problem with Pakistan? Why is it always so willing to talk? Even if all those conditions are met, talk is still not an option. Pakistan should forget talking to India unless its talk about liberating Kashmir. Kashmir is at 1947 point. Its an occupied state. Its special status has been revoked. Which means instrument of accession is void. Why cant we understand a thing this simple? Did I become an extremist stating this fact?

 

[GumNaam]

Yes US will let India be the scape goat only if Pakistan/Taliban agree to side with the US against Russia & China.

US tried this with India in Afghanistan but unfortunately for the US, India failed to deliver.

But how will balkanisation of India and US presence in balkanised India serve US interests against Russia and China if Pakistan/Taliban does not do a deal with the US?

Frankly, I am totally lost with your post.

Both Pakistan & Afghanistan have been burned by the u.s. and neither of us are gonna be any sort of an ally to the u.s. It's a predetermined and foregone conclusion that in the post balkanized india period, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Russia along with the central Asian Muslim states and northern states born out of balkanized india will be firmly in China's block while most of the southern new states borne out of the balkanized india will be in america's corner. for example, khalistan though, will be an american allied state while nagaland will be in China's block. the u.s. will use it's allied states to foment trouble in Tibet and through Tibet, in Xinjiang. Russia, without China, is frankly not a threat to the u.s. if the u.s. succeeds in weakening China (which it won't) then Russia will automatically come to its knees. This "new" pentagon of China, Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan & Muslim central asian states which right now, is known as the SCO won't have india in it and they have a said understanding of pushing the u.s. out, PERIOD! the u.s. says that cooperate in giving me a glorious victory against india and I'll get out easily otherwise I'll make my exit very VERY expensive on the neighborhood. conclusion? All of us said that yeah sure you can have your "glorious" victory in india...

Now of course, won't EXACTLY play out that way word for word but regardless, india will be no more.

 

[PaulSimon]

Both Pakistan & Afghanistan have been burned by the u.s. and neither of us are gonna be any sort of an ally to the u.s. It's a predetermined and foregone conclusion that in the post balkanized india period, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Russia along with the central Asian Muslim states and northern states born out of balkanized india will be firmly in China's block while most of the southern new states borne out of the balkanized india will be in america's corner. for example, khalistan though, will be an american allied state while nagaland will be in China's block. Now of course, won't EXACTLY play out that way word for word but regardless, india will be no more.

But how will this serve US interests against Russia and China?

Or are you saying that the alliance of Russia-China-Pakistan will balkanize India while US will have no option but to quit this game altogether and be a mere spectator?

What the f*ck is the problem with Pakistan? Why is it always so willing to talk? Even if all those conditions are met, talk is still not an option. Pakistan should forget talking to India unless its talk about liberating Kashmir. Kashmir is at 1947 point. Its an occupied state. Its special status has been revoked. Which means instrument of accession is void. Why cant we understand a thing this simple? Did I become an extremist stating this fact?

Pakistan will not take any concrete steps against India until US and Pakistan/Taliban has reached a deal.