WAGAH

[Levina]

oh and honourable lady too @Levina

The lady thinks it's ferocious, ludicrous, yet entertaining.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Nilgiri

So that was what was bothering you. Right.

Have you seen the differences between the Americans on parade, the Germans, the Russians, the Chileans (yes, the Chileans, with Uhlan helmets and a quasi-goose step), the north Koreans, and the British?

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/wagah.444359/#ixzz4HPpieTrB
https://defence.pk/threads/wagah.444359/#ixzz4HPpieTrB
That was the British version of the Quick March. Let me explain.

The regular march, until Napoleon, was what the British Royal Guards march: 80 steps to the minute. Napoleon, or the French Revolutionary armies in general, introduced the quick march, which is 120 steps a minute. The command reflects that: 'Tez chal' in Hindi. The light infantry, specifically, Rifle Regiments, marched much quicker, almost unmanageable for heavily-laden regular troops, at 140 steps a minute, best done with rifles at the trail. This started in the Napoleonic Wars as well, with the British raising light infantry and rifles regiments (I won't bore you with the history and the distinctions, except to remind you that if Moore, the chief motive force behind rifle regiments, had not died at Corunna, Wellington would have had serious competition). If you look carefully at some of the Guards regiments parades (not all), they keep to the old regular march.

Point being?

If that silly chucklehead, the Air Force officer, had marched at 80 steps a minute, it would have been far more dignified. After all, he was not a French revolutionary trooper, rushing to intercept the enemy and force him to battle; he is just escorting a dignitary to inspect the Guard of Honour.

Second, and third: the actual inspection is done at a slow march. You are probably already aware that the Guards each of the five regiments have two tunes, one, their signature quick march, one, their signature slow march, or inspection march. Earlier, our dignitaries used to make at least an attempt at keeping to the slow step, now they just stroll along and get on with it. Just as well, I suppose.

The third bit is the ridiculous Soviet Russian inheritance, where the guard's individual members each turn their faces to the dignitary, moving as he moves along. Never seen such a ridiculous spectacle, and just goes to show what complete lack of depth our generals had, mixing and matching Russo-German modes with British.

The goose-step is Prussian, and the Russians have adapted it, after adopting it. They do it as a slow step as well, particularly ceremonial guards around a monument. That is a separate chapter by itself.

That is the cadence, the beat, the marching cycle. What you are tittering about is the arm movement. Right. Let's visit that.

Let's start with one extreme and move to the other. The LEAST arm movement is the American, and it goes along with the listless stride that is their parade-ground practice; it is unsettling to see a bad-arse Marine daintily picking his way with that particular gait. Video examples will follow.

Then we have the Germans (and the Russians; Russian drill generally follows German drill very closely, because of the long history of Russian monarchs being from small German principalities). They take their arms across their body in the opposite direction, almost touching the opposite arm. The back-swing is limited and short. I mention this because worse is to follow.

The Thais have the same movement across the body, in front; when the arm goes back, however, it is flung OUT, away from the body, in a very defined, unmistakable kind of way. But since HM has written pretty good marches (in a German style) himself, it is difficult to question his adaptation of ceremonial. He obviously has a view, and obviously likes it to be heard.

That brings us to the last, most extreme variation: the British-Indian-Pakistani way (I presume the PA has not changed its basic quick march; never having watched a Pakistani parade, can't say). Here the arm is raised to the level of the shoulders, BUT NOT BEYOND. A bad parade commander will allow some enthusiastic idiots to make their squads raise their arms unnecessarily high, which looks clumsy and gauche.

So if your baneful eye were to fall on the same ceremonial at the regular march cadence of 80, and were to see the arm lifted up to the shoulder but not beyond, it would have nothing to quarrel about. I can assure you that these two small modifications would make the matter far more graceful.

You didn't like the double time the soldiers did. More of that and the paratrooper double time later.

 

[Grevion]

Also it did not miss my eyes that on the Pakistan side, besides the ceremonial gate and leg swinging guys, there were proper Rangers in combat uniform with guns. I did not see similar on our side but am ok if I am corrected.

Maybe that's because they need tighter security on their side of wagah. There was an incident of bombing in 2014.
http://indianexpress.com/article/wo...ed-in-bomb-blast-at-wagah-border-in-pakistan/
OT- it's a bit over the top. But it's good for the local crowd and for those who wants to see some action between India and Pakistan.

 

[anant_s]

Watching the special broadcast of beating retreat at Wagah.

Can't help asking. Am I the only one who finds it cringeworthily embarrassing?

The whole thing. Eyes flashing, nostrils flaring etc.

Definitely not brother!
the whole choreographed cockatoo show with tapped music and almost bollyeoodesque performance for audiences on either side of border is garish to me.
But since these things sell, who am i to complain!

Besides I'm more into WAG 7/9 than WAG AH

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Nilgiri

Are you OK to read about the double time the gunners did?

 

[django]

I find it a little over the top as well.

But most desis like the panache and extra spice....just like our food and drink ...and its tyranny by majority I'm afraid.

I also have some level of disdain for various british-legacy procedures in the indian military when marching, parading etc. I think its time to move on and make them more clean and professional rather than have the excessive silly walk tradition I see sometimes. Not sure how it goes with the Pakistan military.

Oh and dont get me started with the jogging in one spot parade thing that the Indian paratroopers seem to have caught onto....and which seems to have a longer legacy among our neighbours to the west.

What do the honourable gents think?

@Joe Shearer @jbgt90 @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @RAMPAGE @django @anant_s @Oscar @Rain Man et.al


oh and honourable lady too @Levina

Bro the Pak army is more geared to US military manuals knowadays , still an element of british tradition is kept, though I full agree with you we need to move on, we (south asian people) owe east india company nothing.Kudos

 

[Spring Onion]

I am not so worried about the men in uniform. I know there have been instances in the past where emotions have run high and they have come to blows.

Also it did not miss my eyes that on the Pakistan side, besides the ceremonial gate and leg swinging guys, there were proper Rangers in combat uniform with guns. I did not see similar on our side but am ok if I am corrected. Was also surprised to see a Pakistani surd. Felt weird.

The junta on both side wearing caps and waving paper flags looked like they were enjoying themselves. Like on a picnic.

But I am worried about the slogans etc. Tempers might run high. People might lose their cool. There may be a day when both crowds overpower the few soldiers on both sides and clash.

Might get very ugly???

for the red part well Indian pavilion is larger than the one on Pakistani side so you might had not seen on your side.

as far as bold part well it is a picnic in fact.

BTW everyone Happy Independence Day.

 

[Spring Onion]

Yar ye kya bakwaas photo laga diya. Manhoos photo. Shukhr he Allah swt ka hum in janwaro se door ho ge.

aray bhai Allah dosron ki khushian celebrate karnay say nahi rokta.

Even our forces exchange sweets with them.

We cannot curse the entire nation for few thousands people's brutalities or mentality

 

[lastofthepatriots]

aray bhai Allah dosron ki khushian celebrate karnay say nahi rokta.

Even our forces exchange sweets with them.

We cannot curse the entire nation for few thousands people's brutalities or mentality

Apki marzi.

 

[Sky lord]

Anyway for me the best thing was that when the officer on our side was showing us border and explaining I wanted to put one leg atleast on Indian side and he was yelling again and again miss please don't cross the line and at the end angrily looking too much embarrassed he said "kiya ap peshawar say hain?"

What would happen if you put a foot on the Indian side...they can't blow it off

 

[Spring Onion]

What would happen if you put a foot on the Indian side...they can't blow it off

Well I did cross with both foot i mean feet and indeed they can't blow it off.

The soldiers on your side behind the wired fence were hmmmm too innocent looking fragile ones.

The problem is the war jingoism by people like you and me on such forums fails to understand that these soldiers on both sides suffer to what extent and they are human too.

Apki marzi.

o chal hun mon na bana.

 

[Joe Shearer]

for the red part well Indian pavilion is larger than the one on Pakistani side so you might had not seen on your side.

as far as bold part well it is a picnic in fact.

BTW everyone Happy Independence Day.

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY.

 

[livingdead]

nobody likes it here but ppl travel 1000s of kms to watch the circus @thesolar65

 

[Abingdonboy]

Watching the special broadcast of beating retreat at Wagah.

Can't help asking. Am I the only one who finds it cringeworthily embarrassing?

The whole thing. Eyes flashing, nostrils flaring etc.

It's theatre, as simple as that. It serves no purpose other than entertainment and for whatever reason there are a fair ammount of people on (both sides) that seem to enjoy this absurdity and thus it continues.


I know the BSF had tried to "tone down" the spectacle a few years ago (less "silly walks"/stamping) but the Pak Rangers had refused.

If I had my way the entire event would be cancelled and the crossing treated like any other functional outpost.

But I am worried about the slogans etc. Tempers might run high. People might lose their cool. There may be a day when both crowds overpower the few soldiers on both sides and clash.

Might get very ugly???

It's all a show- down to the "tempers" on both sides from the crowds and both sides can control the crowds I am quite sure.

I'm more worried about the potential security risk posed by having this kind of well attended event on both sides. We saw a few years ago the threat posed from the Western side where terrorist managed to get alarmingly close to the border gates (and crowds) and for some absurd reason the BSF/GoI/MHA resumed the shows only a few weeks later.

 

[dray]

I find it a little over the top as well.

But most desis like the panache and extra spice....just like our food and drink ...and its tyranny by majority I'm afraid.

I also have some level of disdain for various british-legacy procedures in the indian military when marching, parading etc. I think its time to move on and make them more clean and professional rather than have the excessive silly walk tradition I see sometimes. Not sure how it goes with the Pakistan military.

Oh and dont get me started with the jogging in one spot parade thing that the Indian paratroopers seem to have caught onto....and which seems to have a longer legacy among our neighbours to the west.

What do the honourable gents think?

@Joe Shearer @jbgt90 @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @RAMPAGE @django @anant_s @Oscar @Rain Man et.al


oh and honourable lady too @Levina

The Wagah border drill looks like a cock-fight. I for one would have shot myself than doing all that.