VN - Party leader arrives in Beijing for China visit
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Lux de Veritas
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When the master state is weak, he need to expect all his protectorate jump ship. When the master state is strong, the peripheral state will gravitate back.
Nothing wrong with this.
The client state will try to get goodies from master state, and master state need to fulfill the client state apetite. You wont be able to get any good things from deadbeat USA.
Meanwhile China is able to throw monies around.
Never mind how much Vietnamese hate China, you cant escape the destiny of going back to China.
empirefighter
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Although we donot like VCP and donot care about its regime, we donot want USA to come to Vietnam and wish Vietnam peaceful since a stable neibour is good for our development. Nowdays , the reality is USA is already there,for securing our national interest, we should interfere the internal affairs of Vietnam by supporting VCP,and we welcome Russia to join this game together. All of us have something in common:we actually donot care about Vietnam at all, we just play some longtime and interesting games in Vietnam just as we are doing in MiddleEast and Central Asia, China and Russia should support one side to fight the other side supported by USA,let the Vietnam people fight each other,this will benefit all of us including all other SouthEast Asia countries.
Lux de Veritas
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Vietnam people are self illusioned how much they can be independence from China. Just look at the 2010 chart, and they know who is their MOST important partner.
Not USA.
And Vietnam trade a lot not just with China, but with Chopstick land like HK, Singapore, S Korea and Japan.
No matter how much you hate China, you need to come to the reality.
Also I am a good man. I advise PRC to be gentle with these guys. They are not our enemy but our ally.
We are fighting a civilization war and we have other competitor, which is white man.
cnleio
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But as far as i read news about P.M family ... his family members 2 sons + 1 daughter get the most power in Vietnam, and this P.M has more relationships with Vietnam Army during his personal experiences in military force. Mr Trong is much weaker...
William Hung
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Such a pleasant and friendly discussions going on between Vietnamese and Chinese members. Lets keep it this way guys.
There seems to be some huge misunderstanding and misinformation coming from the PRC and SG members in this thread. Since there are a few Chinese members here who I like, I will need to say something.
As an honorary Viet member, let me make some corrections. I'm the type of person who only strives to seek and speak the truth (even if it might offend) and would never, unlike some member, tell lies in order to make internet friends. So you all should believe what I say.
- Firstly, there are no pro-CCP factions inside the VCP. The real pro-CCP officials have already been purged from the VCP long ago back in the 70s and 80s. Now, there are only the "extremely anti-CCP" faction and the "moderately anti-CCP" faction. Even then, the moderate anti-CCP has become extremely weakened.
- You are extremely mistaken if you think that southern Viets are pro-US while northern Viets are pro-China. The reality is in the opposite. The northern Viets are more politically minded so they are naturally more anti-China. The southern Viets are more business oriented and not so much interested in politics. So if given a choice, the southern Viets would probably prefer to have a cordial relationship with China so that they could continue to make their money in peace.
- It's naive for some Chinese members to think that a Viet colour revolution will split the country in half with a pro-China North and pro-US South. Like I've mentioned, there are no pro-China faction, let alone a pro-China Vietnamese population. At best, there are only the "lets-not-fight" faction.
-If the US succeed in winning VN fully into its camp, most of the top VCP members will keep their positions. The US is not going to pluck some random Viet peasants from the rice field and prop them up as the new Viet govt. No, it is in the interest of the US to have a strong Viet govt with members who have strong experiences in diplomacy. The only candidates for that are the current top VCP officials. As long as they are pro-US, and they currently are, then that is all that the US want. In other words, there will not be a VCP collapse, but just a name change, if ever. The bottom small fries officials (minister of tourism, education, etc) will lose their positions, especially if they have proven themselves to be incompetent. That's why, some Viets still don't want to get too close to the US. But the top VCP officials will be safe in keeping their jobs, and it is them who are calling the shot.
-It is true when someone mentioned that the VCP was invited by the CCP for this current visit and it wasn't the VCP requesting it. Well at least, that is how the Viet state media has reported it. On the other hand, the Chinese state media doesn't mention who invited who (other than some internet tabloid rumors). So I'm inclined to believe the Viet side of the story of them getting invited. This rejects the theory that the "pro-china" VCP faction is under pressure and "requested" a meeting with the CCP for assistance.
- The pro-US VCP leaders has already made their chess move in order to make this current VCP-CCP meeting meaningless. Remember how the Philippines was constantly making noises about the PRC land reclamation work while VN largely stayed silent (because they have previously done similar work). But notice a few weeks ago, the Viet govt issued an official statement condemning the PRC land reclamation work and requesting China to stop in order not to agitate the disputes, etc.? That statement was directed at this VCP-CCP meeting and has barely any intention against the reclamation work itself. The VCP knows very well that the PRC land reclamation work will not stop no matter who say what. However, the pro-US VCP knows that the CCP will issue reconciliatory statements during this visit, that VN and CN are friends, they will solve the dispute peacefully and respectfully, etc. But the Viet request to stop the land reclamation work will inevitably be ignored by the CCP and therefore will make their reconciliatory statements and promises meaningless.
-Thus, the pro-US faction are the mastermind and are the ones calling the shot. The CCP invited the VCP for some reconciliatory words but the pro-US faction has already made their chess move to make the meeting meaningless. The moderate anti-China faction will be silenced knowing that the CCP would not and could not fulfilled their reconciliatory promises. The Vietnamese population will be reminded the same thing. But the VCP will still have the impression that they still have the pro-China card when the VCP GS go to the US for some negotiation.
... to be continued.
There seems to be some huge misunderstanding and misinformation coming from the PRC and SG members in this thread. Since there are a few Chinese members here who I like, I will need to say something.
As an honorary Viet member, let me make some corrections. I'm the type of person who only strives to seek and speak the truth (even if it might offend) and would never, unlike some member, tell lies in order to make internet friends. So you all should believe what I say.
- Firstly, there are no pro-CCP factions inside the VCP. The real pro-CCP officials have already been purged from the VCP long ago back in the 70s and 80s. Now, there are only the "extremely anti-CCP" faction and the "moderately anti-CCP" faction. Even then, the moderate anti-CCP has become extremely weakened.
- You are extremely mistaken if you think that southern Viets are pro-US while northern Viets are pro-China. The reality is in the opposite. The northern Viets are more politically minded so they are naturally more anti-China. The southern Viets are more business oriented and not so much interested in politics. So if given a choice, the southern Viets would probably prefer to have a cordial relationship with China so that they could continue to make their money in peace.
- It's naive for some Chinese members to think that a Viet colour revolution will split the country in half with a pro-China North and pro-US South. Like I've mentioned, there are no pro-China faction, let alone a pro-China Vietnamese population. At best, there are only the "lets-not-fight" faction.
-If the US succeed in winning VN fully into its camp, most of the top VCP members will keep their positions. The US is not going to pluck some random Viet peasants from the rice field and prop them up as the new Viet govt. No, it is in the interest of the US to have a strong Viet govt with members who have strong experiences in diplomacy. The only candidates for that are the current top VCP officials. As long as they are pro-US, and they currently are, then that is all that the US want. In other words, there will not be a VCP collapse, but just a name change, if ever. The bottom small fries officials (minister of tourism, education, etc) will lose their positions, especially if they have proven themselves to be incompetent. That's why, some Viets still don't want to get too close to the US. But the top VCP officials will be safe in keeping their jobs, and it is them who are calling the shot.
-It is true when someone mentioned that the VCP was invited by the CCP for this current visit and it wasn't the VCP requesting it. Well at least, that is how the Viet state media has reported it. On the other hand, the Chinese state media doesn't mention who invited who (other than some internet tabloid rumors). So I'm inclined to believe the Viet side of the story of them getting invited. This rejects the theory that the "pro-china" VCP faction is under pressure and "requested" a meeting with the CCP for assistance.
- The pro-US VCP leaders has already made their chess move in order to make this current VCP-CCP meeting meaningless. Remember how the Philippines was constantly making noises about the PRC land reclamation work while VN largely stayed silent (because they have previously done similar work). But notice a few weeks ago, the Viet govt issued an official statement condemning the PRC land reclamation work and requesting China to stop in order not to agitate the disputes, etc.? That statement was directed at this VCP-CCP meeting and has barely any intention against the reclamation work itself. The VCP knows very well that the PRC land reclamation work will not stop no matter who say what. However, the pro-US VCP knows that the CCP will issue reconciliatory statements during this visit, that VN and CN are friends, they will solve the dispute peacefully and respectfully, etc. But the Viet request to stop the land reclamation work will inevitably be ignored by the CCP and therefore will make their reconciliatory statements and promises meaningless.
-Thus, the pro-US faction are the mastermind and are the ones calling the shot. The CCP invited the VCP for some reconciliatory words but the pro-US faction has already made their chess move to make the meeting meaningless. The moderate anti-China faction will be silenced knowing that the CCP would not and could not fulfilled their reconciliatory promises. The Vietnamese population will be reminded the same thing. But the VCP will still have the impression that they still have the pro-China card when the VCP GS go to the US for some negotiation.
... to be continued.
Last edited:
Viva_Viet
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Many pro-PM tycoons such as Mr.Kien( ACB bank), Mr.Binh ( Vinashin) etc have been in jail recently, and PM Dung could do Nothing to help them.
You analyst base on the idea that CN is the master when VN is just vassal state, and its totaly wrong.When the master state is weak, he need to expect all his protectorate jump ship. When the master state is strong, the peripheral state will gravitate back.
Nothing wrong with this.
The client state will try to get goodies from master state, and master state need to fulfill the client state apetite. You wont be able to get any good things from deadbeat USA.
Meanwhile China is able to throw monies around.
Never mind how much Vietnamese hate China, you cant escape the destiny of going back to China.
Read a again the history. When CN or any one threaten VN with war, we always stand up and fight back. We also expand to the South & West to become stronger....and there are still lots of lands in the South & West for VN to continue our expansion.
Lux de Veritas
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Many pro-PM tycoons such as Mr.Kien( ACB bank), Mr.Binh ( Vinashin) etc have been in jail recently, and PM Dung could do Nothing to help them.
You analyst base on the idea that CN is the master when VN is just vassal state, and its totaly wrong.
Read a again the history. When CN or any one threaten VN with war, we always stand up and fight back. We also expand to the South & West to become stronger....and there are still lots of lands in the South & West for VN to continue our expansion.
You guys pay tribute to China. Your name Vietnam was given by Emperor Jiaqing.
East Asia: A New History - Hugh Dyson Walker - Google Books
mrfly911
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It's past!
Viva_Viet
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We requested the name ' Nam Viet' but thats the old name of Trieu dynasty ( Zhao tuo was the firt emperor) and seem like Nam Viet included GuangDong- GuangXi, so CN emperor requested us to change from NamViet to VietNam.
Btw: its just a name for the country, nothing so special . We also paid tribute to Mongol, but u know what we did to Mongol invasion, right ?
William Hung
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Yea, I think at this current direction, the VCP will slowly move into the US camp. But they want to take it cautiously and slowly. This VCP-CCP meeting is just a card for the VCP to tell the US during negotiations that, hey, don't push us too hard and don't negotiate unfairly with us, because we can still always become pro-CCP again. At least, the VCP can present that impression to get the most from the US.
Lux de Veritas
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Even your French name Cochin Chinois was given by Chinese 交趾
William Hung
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We requested the name ' Nam Viet' but thats the old name of Trieu dynasty ( Zhao tuo was the firt emperor) and seem like Nam Viet included GuangDong- GuangXi, so CN emperor requested us to change from NamViet to VietNam.
Btw: its just a name for the country, nothing so special . We also paid tribute to Mongol, but u know what we did to Mongol invasion, right ?
Let's not go offtopic about the past. Let's talk about the present and future.
Viet
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wrong. since the oil rig incident, the pro-china faction is weakened. vietnam is at the crossroad, should the party chief return home with empty hands, the consequences will be dramatic, not only for vietnam, but laos and cambodia. after the china trip, he will head to america.
William Hung
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Vietnam people are self illusioned how much they can be independence from China. Just look at the 2010 chart, and they know who is their MOST important partner.
Not USA.
And Vietnam trade a lot not just with China, but with Chopstick land like HK, Singapore, S Korea and Japan.
No matter how much you hate China, you need to come to the reality.
Also I am a good man. I advise PRC to be gentle with these guys. They are not our enemy but our ally.
We are fighting a civilization war and we have other competitor, which is white man.
Aligning with one country doesn't mean that you can not do business with another country.
JP and SK are much bigger trade partners with China than VN is. Yet JP and SK are US allies, not VN.
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