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VN-1 Wheeled APCs are we Getting Them in Big Numbers!!

In Libyan pic it is Land Cruiser 70 series not Hilux
As we have a insatiable love for Toyotas, maybe we can provide our men with some added protection like below..
15dc48fe1a1c123d2096fca4bf87704e.jpg

Or like this..
hilux-inner-2.jpg


Or if we intend to do a high speed shoot and scoot maybe Hilux can be modified with different guns, ATGMs, rocket launchers or AAMs on the Toyota below!
asc_hornet_special_operations_vehicle_640_001.jpg


In Libya some big AAGs on a humble Hilux.
khalifa-haftar-libya-toyota-wars-23mm-hilux-technical-mad-max-gun-truck-2019.jpg
 
As we have a insatiable love for Toyotas, maybe we can provide our men with some added protection like below..
15dc48fe1a1c123d2096fca4bf87704e.jpg

Or like this..
hilux-inner-2.jpg


Or if we intend to do a high speed shoot and scoot maybe Hilux can be modified with different guns, ATGMs, rocket launchers or AAMs on the Toyota below!
asc_hornet_special_operations_vehicle_640_001.jpg


In Libya some big AAGs on a humble Toyota.
khalifa-haftar-libya-toyota-wars-23mm-hilux-technical-mad-max-gun-truck-2019.jpg

Based on my personal experience, the tires actually give the trouble. Even un-aimed bursts can take out the tires, making the vehicle immobile and stranded nowhere. The men inside, even if they remain protected, become much more vulnerable, to a fatal RPG hit since they are now stationary....thats why procedures dictate to dismount the vehicle in case of ambush since they can become a kill-box.

This same point can be said against other wheeled vehicles / APCs.
 
Pakistan is in need of APCs since the time when the Taliban were a few kilometres away from our capital. We have lost multiple generals and brigadiers due to insecure transport. IEDs and suicide bombings left and right.

We still need them badly now, specially after we have seen that our soldiers are martyred in Balochistan in a 2005 Toyota pick up frequently. If we cannot get our relationship with Iran straight, or cannot root out the presence of RAW from Balochistan, then I think APCs will be a good investment. I hope Chinese APCs are reliable enough to withstand multiple IEDs and suicide attacks because we will need that.

Not buying APCs, and at the same time, quietly sustaining soldier casualties to foreign funded groups round the clock, is just laughable at this point.
 
there are run flat tires. Also solid rubber tires. Many solutions available today to make rubber tyred vehciles useful.

Well then lets hope they are able to withstand RPG hits.

Solutions are available for everything i believe, question always is that which solutions we can afford.
 
Well then lets hope they are able to withstand RPG hits.

Solutions are available for everything i believe, question always is that which solutions we can afford.

Even a tank tracks won't survive an RPG 29 hit : )

best way to take out a tank, hit its tracks or hit from the rear.
 
Even a tank tracks won't survive an RPG 29 hit : )

best way to take out a tank, hit its tracks or hit from the rear.

Yeah, but if a tank is hit from the rear by a shoulder fired weapon from enemy infantry, then it means the mechanized infantry supposed to accompany the tanks has failed. :woot:

Even a tank tracks won't survive an RPG 29 hit : )

best way to take out a tank, hit its tracks or hit from the rear.

Do please keep in view that for a hit on a moving target, RPG team ought to get to within :-)300 m of the target.

If enemy infantry is able to get 300 m near you... One of you deserves to be roasted.
 
Yeah, but if a tank is hit from the rear by a shoulder fired weapon from enemy infantry, then it means the mechanized infantry supposed to accompany the tanks has failed. :woot:



Do please keep in view that for a hit on a moving target, RPG team ought to get to within :-)300 m of the target.

If enemy infantry is able to get 300 m near you... One of you deserves to be roasted.

That is also true for wheeled vehicles as much as for tracked vehicles. Which brings our discussion back in full circle - that an RPG can be used to take out a tracked or a wheeled vehicle by placing a hit on the wheel or the tracks. To make such a shot you would either need to get clos(er), or use an ATGM.

So, the logical conclusion is, tracked vehicles are not better protected than wheeled ones. AND:

1. They are much cheaper, easier to deploy and more suitable for modern combat which relies on the vast tracks of road networks now available in the world and not available in the same way during WWII.

2. That numbers count and wheeled vehicles allow one to use "quantity has a quality all its own"

3. Easier repair, maintenance, cost of operations.
 
That is also true for wheeled vehicles as much as for tracked vehicles. Which brings our discussion back in full circle - that an RPG can be used to take out a tracked or a wheeled vehicle by placing a hit on the wheel or the tracks. To make such a shot you would either need to get clos(er), or use an ATGM.

So, the logical conclusion is, tracked vehicles are not better protected than wheeled ones. AND:

1. They are much cheaper, easier to deploy and more suitable for modern combat which relies on the vast tracks of road networks now available in the world and not available in the same way during WWII.

2. That numbers count and wheeled vehicles allow one to use "quantity has a quality all its own"

3. Easier repair, maintenance, cost of operations.

Dear, whether tracked or wheeled vehicles are better protected all depends upon how much weight are you ready to put on wheels or tracks. And which, out of tracks or wheels, is better suited to take n heavy weight ind different terrain areas.

Your Point 1 is true, but is applicable only to those areas having good road networks, not all.

Your Point 2, yeah, numbers always count, but more number on ground, or more troop to space ratio,present easy and plentiful targets as well. Moreover, more numbers need more money.
 
Dear, whether tracked or wheeled vehicles are better protected all depends upon how much weight are you ready to put on wheels or tracks. And which, out of tracks or wheels, is better suited to take n heavy weight ind different terrain areas.

Your Point 1 is true, but is applicable only to those areas having good road networks, not all.

Your Point 2, yeah, numbers always count, but more number on ground, or more troop to space ratio,present easy and plentiful targets as well. Moreover, more numbers need more money.

The Conventional Answer
I don't know how effective heavy weight is compared to the costs it brings in, in modern combat. We see heavy Turkish tanks being blown away with single ATGM hits.

Research shows that ATGMs cut through steel like a knife through butter. Protection against ATGMs has to look beyond adding mere weight. It makes little sense to put on weight solely because of ATGMs because, no matter how much weight u put on, you are still open to ATGM hits.

This is how tech has evolved. There was a time when knights would wear very heavy armor. Then guns and gunpowder came, and it didn't make sense anymore because whether you wear armor or don't wear armor, you are still dead from a gun shot. So medieval armor became a thing of the past.

Weight always sacrifices mobility, which in turn sacrifices survivability. A toyota pickup can perhaps survive ATGMs better than a tank these days. In Syria, pickup trucks have found a way to avoid ATGMs by reversing the vehicle at a critical point before impact. The acceleration it can do, makes it impossible for the ATGM to change course in the last minute.

Something Turkish tanks, or any tanks could not achieve against ATGMs in theatre.


Ways of being able to carry weight are many. One can increase tire width. Number of tyres. etc. The desi approach is "oh this can't be done". This is the mind of a slave. They are unable to think beyond what they have been told.

But the free spirit finds ways. It innovates. It says "yes I can do it, let's try". And that is the mindset that is missing.

The Less Conventional Answer

Imagine building a wheeled vehicle. 25-30 tons. It uses innovative ways to increase protection and mobility. Automation allows a two man crew, decreasing inner dimensions - increasing protection for a given weight category.

Imagine that it further reduces weight and space requirements with a smaller gun - after all - what use is that big main gun when fighting tanks, the best bet is an ATGM? Instead, it have ATGMs of its own to shoot.

Imagine it uses thicker wheels and finds ways to increase the number of sets of wheels. It finds ways to allow a given wheel size to more efficiently carry its weight.

The smaller main gun is good enough to support infantry and for destroying anything but a heavy tank. Say, the 76mm Rooikat gun which can take out a T-55 with a single shot. Certainly would be good enough for 95% of battlefield use. For that extra 5%, the vehicle simply uses boxed ATGMs instead.

Imagine this vehicle uses armor innovatively. It finds a way perhaps to create a double layer of ERA. Combines this with spaced armor, cage armor. The vehicle also possibly uses active and passive kill mechanisms. The vehicle could find ways to trigger the ATGM from further away.

But none of this is ever possible because desi armies do not innovate. You will never see them come up with a new tech or new way of warfare. They will wait for the West to build something and only if the gora does it, they will follow. In this kind of a situation, every word asking for innovation is a word wasted.

I'll give you an example. In 2010 I wrote a paper with @Munir on how armed UAVs can help Pak overcome Indian forces. Jokes, sniggers and insults were all we got from desis. The only people that took these papers seriously was the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics who summarized our findings in their reports. It took goras to appreciate this.

Now that Elon Musk and the West are taking armed UAVs seriously, you can bet our pendus will now jump on the board and start discussing how they can get "TOT" for it. This gap in mindset is not a technology gap. It is a mental gap. The gap between brown people that are educated in a manner that leaves them feeling inferior and looking up to the white man. And free people who can think independently.
 
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