Vietnamese conquest of Muslim/Hindu Cham and their current situation

[ChineseTiger1986]

The OP fails miserably trying to portrait the Cham as "victim" of Vietnamese "aggression".

For centuries the Cham waged countless wars against Viet Nam; they even sacked Ha Noi in the 14th century. The Cham were determined to wipe the Vietnamese off the map but they were not strong enough to do so and in the process; the Cham got wiped out by Viet Nam.

Viet Nam's annexation of Kampuchea without losing 1 solder but that's another story that the OP might want to create another to rant

So it is those Mongols/Manchus/Tibetans who have constantly been labelled as the 'victims' of China's aggression.

They all tried to wipe out Hua Xia, but now they all end up being part of China, but it is the past, there is no need to live in the hatred of the past.

 

[Wholegrain]

So it is those Mongols/Manchus/Tibetans who have constantly been labelled as the 'victims' of China's aggression.

They all tried to wipe out Hua Xia, but now they all end up being part of China, but it is the past, there is no need to live in the hatred of the past.

I think making Paracel and Spratly Islands into an Utsul-Cham autonomous region is a good idea. The islands can support a few hundred people. The Utsul Chams in Hainan in China are all Muslim.

Yousoh Srolestz - YouTube

 

[EastSea]

I think making Paracel and Spratly Islands into an Utsul-Cham autonomous region is a good idea. The islands can support a few hundred people. The Utsul Chams in Hainan in China are all Muslim.

Yousoh Srolestz - YouTube

base on your logic, Philippine can claim Taiwan belong to them be course the native people in Taiwan aborigines shared same bloodline with them both are Austronesian people.

You and all Chinese go back to mainland, give back Island Farmosa to Philipine.

 

[Enemy]

Encyclopaedia of the South-east Asian ethnography - Google Books

Religion and expressive culture - Cham

page 40

 

[Wholegrain]

page 40

Hinduism as a religion was invented and created by the British. No "Hindu" called themselves a Hindu before British rule in India. There was no organized religion, just different religions dedicated to different gods. Hinduism was applied to many different cults and religions of India. The word Hindu is not even from Sanskrit or Indic languages and isn't found in Hindu holy texts. Its derived from the word "Sindhu" and as used by Muslim invaders to describe Indians.

So if Cham and Balinese Hindus are not Hindus, then neither are Hindus in Hindustan.

The Invention of the Hindu, by Pankaj Mishra

The Idea of India » Archive » A Temple Where I Begin To Understand That Neither Hindu Nor Muslim Means What We May Believe

Myth of One Hindu Religion

Souljerky: The Invention of the Hindu

The words "Hindu" and "Hinduism"

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_meaning.asp

NS Essay - How the British invented Hinduism

 

[Enemy]

Hinduism as a religion was invented and created by the British. No "Hindu" called themselves a Hindu before British rule in India. There was no organized religion, just different religions dedicated to different gods. Hinduism was applied to many different cults and religions of India. The word Hindu is not even from Sanskrit or Indic languages and isn't found in Hindu holy texts. Its derived from the word "Sindhu" and as used by Muslim invaders to describe Indians.

So if Cham and Balinese Hindus are not Hindus, then neither are Hindus in Hindustan.

The Invention of the Hindu, by Pankaj Mishra

The Idea of India » Archive » A Temple Where I Begin To Understand That Neither Hindu Nor Muslim Means What We May Believe

Myth of One Hindu Religion

Souljerky: The Invention of the Hindu

The words "Hindu" and "Hinduism"

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_meaning.asp

NS Essay - How the British invented Hinduism

Then why are you calling some Vietnamese animists (who may imitate some Aryavarta/Ganetic-Jamuna cultural practices and beliefs because of being colonized once upon a time in the remote past by the Aryans) Hindus?

They are as much Vietnamese as any Han is Chinese. Their ancestors had to imitate the surviving rules set by the victorious party and their descendants just follow it.

 

[EastSea]

Same idea of thread creater Manchuria will regain his independence from China.

In the early 12th century the Tungusic Jurchen people, who were Liao's tributaries, overthrew the Liao and formed the Jin Dynasty (1115–1234), which went on to control parts of Northern China and Mongolia. During the Yuan Dynasty (1271–1368),[17] Manchuria was administered under the Liaoyang province. In 1375, Nahacu, a Mongol official of the Northern Yuan in Liaoyang province invaded Liaodong, but later surrendered to the Ming Dynasty in 1387. In order to protect the northern border areas the Ming decided to "pacify" the Jurchens in order to deal with its problems with Yuan remnants along its northern border. The Ming solidified control over Manchuria under Yongle Emperor (1402–1424). Starting in the 1580s, a Jianzhou Jurchen chieftain, Nurhaci (1558–1626), started to unify Jurchen tribes of the region. Over the next several decades, the Jurchen took control over most of Manchuria. In 1616, Nurhaci founded the Later Jin Dynasty.

Around the time of World War I, Zhang Zuolin established himself as a powerful warlord with influence over most of Manchuria. During his rule, the Manchurian economy grew tremendously, backed by immigration of Chinese from other parts of China. The Japanese assassinated him on June 2, 1928, in what is known as the Huanggutun Incident.[19] Following the Mukden Incident in 1931 and the subsequent Japanese invasion of Manchuria, the Japanese declared Inner Manchuria an "independent state", and appointed the deposed Qing emperor Puyi as puppet emperor of Manchukuo. Under Japanese control Manchuria was one of the most brutally run regions in the world, with a systematic campaign of terror and intimidation against the local Russian and Chinese populations including arrests, organised riots and other forms of subjugation.[20] Manchukuo was used as a base to invade the rest of China.

Manchuria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BoXilai]

Do you want to use this way to incite Cambodia makes the 2nd border war with us as what happened in 1979??? What a dirty joke! Great Viet defeated Champa with the same reason with the Han conquest of Xiongnu - Hung Nô - 匈奴 and Vietnamese Emperors used the same tactics. They harried Great Viet for many times in border with us.

 

[Enemy]

Personally, leaving aside any identity, I would support Vietnam liberating and uniting entire South East Asia under its rule. The people of South East Asia must have a common national identity if they want to advance and contribute to the progress of humanity.

 

[Wholegrain]

Same idea of thread creater Manchuria will regain his independence from China.

In the early 12th century the Tungusic Jurchen people, who were Liao's tributaries, overthrew the Liao and formed the Jin Dynasty (1115–1234), which went on to control parts of Northern China and Mongolia. During the Yuan Dynasty (1271–1368),[17] Manchuria was administered under the Liaoyang province. In 1375, Nahacu, a Mongol official of the Northern Yuan in Liaoyang province invaded Liaodong, but later surrendered to the Ming Dynasty in 1387. In order to protect the northern border areas the Ming decided to "pacify" the Jurchens in order to deal with its problems with Yuan remnants along its northern border. The Ming solidified control over Manchuria under Yongle Emperor (1402–1424). Starting in the 1580s, a Jianzhou Jurchen chieftain, Nurhaci (1558–1626), started to unify Jurchen tribes of the region. Over the next several decades, the Jurchen took control over most of Manchuria. In 1616, Nurhaci founded the Later Jin Dynasty.

Around the time of World War I, Zhang Zuolin established himself as a powerful warlord with influence over most of Manchuria. During his rule, the Manchurian economy grew tremendously, backed by immigration of Chinese from other parts of China. The Japanese assassinated him on June 2, 1928, in what is known as the Huanggutun Incident.[19] Following the Mukden Incident in 1931 and the subsequent Japanese invasion of Manchuria, the Japanese declared Inner Manchuria an "independent state", and appointed the deposed Qing emperor Puyi as puppet emperor of Manchukuo. Under Japanese control Manchuria was one of the most brutally run regions in the world, with a systematic campaign of terror and intimidation against the local Russian and Chinese populations including arrests, organised riots and other forms of subjugation.[20] Manchukuo was used as a base to invade the rest of China.

Manchuria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Manchukuo was majority Han, the puppet army was Han and so was the puppet government including the Prime Minister Zhang Jinghui. Puyi could only speak Chinese and not Manchu.

The Manchus incorporated Manchuria into China and said the provinces of Manchuria were part of "Dulimbai Gurun" (中&#22283 China. The Manchus did not even called Manchuria by the name "Manchuria". They called it the three northeastern provinces. The name "Manchuria" was invented by the Japanese and spread to the west via Japan.

Tumen Jalafun Jecen Akk: Manchu Studies in Honour of Giovanni Stary - Google Books

The Manchus flooded Manchuria with Han during Chuang Guandong 闖關東 to stop the Russians from seizing the three provinces.

 

[Wholegrain]

Do you want to use this way to incite Cambodia makes the 2nd border war with us as what happened in 1979??? What a dirty joke! Great Viet defeated Champa with the same reason with the Han conquest of Xiongnu - Hung Nô - 匈奴 and Vietnamese Emperors used the same tactics. They harried Great Viet for many times in border with us.

No, this is a better idea.

I think making Paracel and Spratly Islands into an Utsul-Cham autonomous region is a good idea. The islands can support a few hundred people. The Utsul Chams in Hainan in China are all Muslim.

Yousoh Srolestz - YouTube

Vietnam expanded by conquest. These are maps showing the history of it.

 

[Wholegrain]

Before anyone starts making posts like BoXilai actually read what I said.

The last separatists surrendered in 1992 and I believe its demographically impossible for Champa to gain independence. Since Cham are only in the tens of thousands but Vietanmese in the tens of millions.

But what I said is that China should make the Spratly and Paracel Islands into an Utsul Cham autonomous region (the utsuls are descended from muslim cham refugees and currently live in Hainan, China).

I also made this post because both the Vietnamese government and certain people on this forum use history to present themselves as victims when its not true.

China did support Hmong rebels and was accused of aiding FULRO (Muslim and Hindu Cham, Khmer, and Montagnard rebels) against the Vietnamese government but FULRO disarmed and surrendered in the 1990s to the United Nations and the Hmong surrendered as well.

If another separatist war happens its going to be suicide for the Cham and Montagnards so China and everyone else isn't interested in that.

A better idea as I just said is for China to settle Utsul Chams into an autonomous region in the Paracel and Spratly Islands.

 

[faithfulguy]

Personally, leaving aside any identity, I would support Vietnam liberating and uniting entire South East Asia under its rule. The people of South East Asia must have a common national identity if they want to advance and contribute to the progress of humanity.

Lets see how many Vietnamese support your views. Gambit probably would be the only one. lol

 

[gambit]

Lets see how many Vietnamese support your views. Gambit probably would be the only one. lol

And you are wrong.

 

[faithfulguy]

And you are wrong.

that was a joke. actually, you would probably we the one that won't support this view. lol