Vietnam visit: Anti-American exhibits abound, but people are friendly

[below_freezing]

Soooo...The typical 'end justified the means' communist argument. China co-instigated the Vietnam War, imposed land reform program in North Viet Nam that resulted in famine, abused the peasantry even to crimes of rapes and murders, but it is all good because now Viet Nam is independent.

Not as much famine as Agent Orange in south vietnam, the 2 million killed by US strategic bombers, the land poisoned by chemical weapons even to today, using food and denying food as a weapon to force South Vietnamese to move to the city, illegal imprisonment in "strategic hamlets" and the propping up of military dictators. Also, there is even a special word in Vietnamese for "Eurasian", you want to talk about rape?

 

[gambit]

You really have no shame do you. It wasn't China that sprayed biological agents in Vietnam. It wasn't China that killed 2 million civilians in collateral damage. Rape? It still happens in American bases in Japan today and you think Americans didn't do far worse in Vietnam. Murder? I guess dropping bombs on innocent civilians in your mind don't count as murder.

No...It is you Chinese boys who have no shame in trying to deny China's very prominent and pivotal role in the starting the Vietnam War. All this talk about Agent Orange and B-52 strikes are convenient distractors and I will admit they are effective. For the gullible, that is. You want the US to own up to Agent Orange? Then you Chinese boys should have the balls to own up for China's crimes against the Viets.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Not as much famine as Agent Orange in south vietnam, the 2 million killed by US strategic bombers, the land poisoned by chemical weapons even to today, using food and denying food as a weapon to force South Vietnamese to move to the city, illegal imprisonment in "strategic hamlets" and the propping up of military dictators. Also, there is even a special word in Vietnamese for "Eurasian", you want to talk about rape?

No no no no noooooo,

America come to Vietnam and spread flowers and rainbows.

They love us so much that we let them have our women. Its not rape.

Bombs? they only drop happy fun time fireworks for our children. No bomb here.

What Agent orange? Is that some nice American beverage? Maybe drop some more then.

 

[gambit]

No no no no noooooo,

America come to Vietnam and spread flowers and rainbows.

They love us so much that we let them have our women. Its not rape.

Bombs? they only drop happy fun time fireworks for our children. No bomb here.

What Agent orange? Is that some nice American beverage? Maybe drop some more then.

And what did China gave Viet Nam? Communist inspired misery and economic depression. All for a feather in China's cap. The propaganda is 'liberation' and you swallowed it wholesale.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

No...It is you Chinese boys who have no shame in trying to deny China's very prominent and pivotal role in the starting the Vietnam War. All this talk about Agent Orange and B-52 strikes are convenient distractors and I will admit they are effective. For the gullible, that is. You want the US to own up to Agent Orange? Then you Chinese boys should have the balls to own up for China's crimes against the Viets.

What crimes did the Chinese do that was so much worse than what Americans did?

 

[gambit]

What crimes did the Chinese do that was so much worse than what Americans did?

Communism.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

And what did China gave Viet Nam? Communist inspired misery and economic depression. All for a feather in China's cap. The propaganda is 'liberation' and you swallowed it wholesale.

Hell of a lot more than Americans did which was to drop bombs, and biological agents then bailed.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Communism.

Quantifiable results to direct actions please.

 

[gambit]

Quantifiable actions please.

Look at your own country for those statistics. Look at the decades China spent behind lagging in every way.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Look at your own country for those statistics. Look at the decades China spent behind lagging in every way.

The same China that lends money to America so they can finance their debt repayments.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Look at your own country for those statistics. Look at the decades China spent behind lagging in every way.

Yet its growing immensely while still being very communist according to you.

 

[below_freezing]

And what did China gave Viet Nam? Communist inspired misery and economic depression. All for a feather in China's cap. The propaganda is 'liberation' and you swallowed it wholesale.

Economic depression? Vietnam is now the 24th fastest growing economy in the world and has just entered its period of acceleration. In addition, HDI has improved in Vietnam since 1975. When Chinese investment pours into Vietnam and Vietnam hits 9% growth rates I wonder who will be the jealous loser sitting in the dust?

China lagged behind? Even during Mao's rule we were the 5th nation to build nuclear weapons, fusion weapons, nuclear submarine, created our indigenous fighter jets, machine tools, were the first to chemically synthesize insulin and the US even bought our patents for hybrid rice. We lagged behind due to Japan destroying 1 trillion USD worth of infrastructure and who knows how much during the civil war. There has been no 3rd world country starting out backwards under US rule that ended up advanced. Even South Korea today is a joke that can't even make its own factors of production, it still is forced to import machine tools.

 

[gambit]

So boys...Is 'the end justified the means' acceptable as a political credo?

 

[ViXuyen]

There were Jews that collaborated with the Nazis, blacks that sold other blacks to slavery in order to become a house slave, and Indians that sold India to the British just for a cheap governor's secretary post.

We might talk about Ho's relationship with the French but it is fact that as the leader of a small, weak and new nation he had to make compromises and reduce the number of enemies he fought. Jiang even tried to negotiate with Japan, Ho talking with France is nothing. The end result is still the same: USA used strategic bombers and chemical weapons on helpless Vietnamese civilians, killing millions. Vietnam, with the help of China and Russia, fought the US back and turned 8000 of their planes into free iron ore.

I hate to say this but the word "millions" have been abused and used too much for the civilian casualties in the war. Million is simply too much of an exaggeration.

Let's take a look at the Christmas bombing campain in 1972. That's the heaviest bombing campaign ever over a stretch of 11 days. Bombs were dropped on North Viet Nam in general and on the two most densely populated cities of Ha Noi and Hai Phong. It is said the the tonnages were 5 times more than those were dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The result: 1100 civilian deaths in 11 days, that's an average of 100 per day on areas of heavily packed civilians.

Now the war started from 1965-1972; that's close to 3000 days and the Vietnam War is not a war that is being fought on a daily basis, the intensity of the war is nowhere near the 1968 Tet Offense or the 1972 Christmas bombing occasion. Now people are talking about millions of deaths due to bombing?? Even the NVA and VC did not die by the millions despite the fact that they were the primary targets of the bombing campaign and now people are talking about civilians died by the millions? Such a joke

My prediction for the # of civilians that died due to the U.S bombing campaign over the stretch of that 3000 days is about less than 10,000.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

So boys...Is 'the end justified the means' acceptable as a political credo?

Its much better than means justifying nothing which what Americans demonstrated perfectly after bombing the crap out of Vietnam and then just leaving Vietnamese to clean it up.