Vietnam visit: Anti-American exhibits abound, but people are friendly

[tanlixiang28776]

Your numbers still do not make sense for the 1100 civilians died during the 11 days bombing campagin.

11 days is not enough of a sample to estimate 3000 days. Try learning some statistics.

 

[gambit]

No it is not. You tried to imply that communism makes countries poor. I argue the opposite. It's the fast track to industrialization. Under ludicrous free market rules, "every nation plays to its comparative advantage" so in the end, poor 3rd world countries in Africa that have a comparative advantage in agriculture due to a backwards industrial base are ludicrously told, "don't develop your technology, keep farming instead, just import our technology"!

In fact, it is the free market forced onto developing countries too early by the West that keeps them poor.

Where did the microwave oven came from? If communism does not make a country poor, then explain the gross economic 'wealth' gap between East Germany and West Germany. Or any pairing, for that matter.

 

[ViXuyen]

11 days is not enough of a sample to estimate 3000 days. Try learning some statistics.

But that 11 days is the heaviest bombing campaign of the war, not over the NVA or VC, but over the most densely populated areas of North Viet Nam. Try again and name me which bombing campaign over a heavily populated areas like Ha Noi and Hai Phong?

 

[Tigershark]

I'll be the first to admit that communism has its faults, as do all forms of government. But demanding that your country be overthrown every time you think the government isn't making decisions you would make is only going to crash the economy and destroy people's livelihoods. It's easy to complain. It's harder to work with your country to improve it and strengthen it.

 

[gambit]

You forget that communism in Vietnam enjoyed broad popular support. The Vietnamese chose communism, freed their country from French and American imperialism, and now enjoys rapid economic growth and improving living standards. The Vietnamese made their choice and you should be supporting their difficult task of building a modern nation. Instead all you do is complain about China and your own country, sitting in your couch a world away.

More propaganda. If that is true, then why did the Viet Minh killed of so many of the rival non-communist nationalists in northern Viet Nam? Why did South Viet Nam persists for so long? As for me, I have spent far more money to support Viet Nam than all your rhetorics could ever do. Read the past few pages to see how China is guilty of starting the Vietnam War.

 

[gambit]

I'll be the first to admit that communism has its faults, as do all forms of government. But demanding that your country be overthrown every time you think the government isn't making decisions you would make is only going to crash the economy and destroy people's livelihoods. It's easy to complain. It's harder to work with your country to improve it and strengthen it.

Fine...Then why kill off those who disagree just so the communist experiment could proceed? Are you saying that there were no non-communist nationalists in Viet Nam?

 

[below_freezing]

Where did the microwave oven came from? If communism does not make a country poor, then explain the gross economic 'wealth' gap between East Germany and West Germany. Or any pairing, for that matter.

The microwave oven came from a developed nation, the US. Under free market economics, the poor countries that cannot make a microwave oven would keep farming and import it!

Money being pumped into West Germany by the US while being extracted from East Germany by the Soviets.

Divided nation pairings are useless because the US was already richer than the Soviets due to being untouched in WW2 while Soviets lost 25% of their population and most of their industry and could afford to pump more money. More accurate would be for countries of similar size using communism vs. capitalism. Cuba and Equador are comparable, and Cuba has both a higher GDP/capita and a higher HDI. China and India were also comparable, and China was in the lead since 1959.

 

[gambit]

The microwave oven came from a developed nation, the US. Under free market economics, the poor countries that cannot make a microwave oven would keep farming and import it!

No one forced anyone to import anything and this is the typical strawman argument. The issue is how effective is communism in developing a country and by this admission and its accompanying strawman argument, we can conclude that communism does no good.

Money being pumped into West Germany by the US while being extracted from East Germany by the Soviets.

Wrong...The West Germans did not need US assistance to the degrees that Soviet satellites do from the USSR.

Divided nation pairings are useless because the US was already richer than the Soviets due to being untouched in WW2 while Soviets lost 25% of their population and most of their industry and could afford to pump more money. More accurate would be for countries of similar size using communism vs. capitalism. Cuba and Equador are comparable, and Cuba has both a higher GDP/capita and a higher HDI. China and India were also comparable, and China was in the lead since 1959.

And yet it is only recent that China surpassed Japan as an economy. So no, it is not accurate to compare countries of similar sizes. It is misleading but it is effective for the gullible.

 

[below_freezing]

No one forced anyone to import anything and this is the typical strawman argument. The issue is how effective is communism in developing a country and by this admission and its accompanying strawman argument, we can conclude that communism does no good.


Wrong...The West Germans did not need US assistance to the degrees that Soviet satellites do from the USSR.


And yet it is only recent that China surpassed Japan as an economy. So no, it is not accurate to compare countries of similar sizes. It is misleading but it is effective for the gullible.

What another joke! So why are you not saying Phillipines developed this? China's monarchy developed gunpowder and paper and had steel production unexceeded by Europe's until the 19th century, can we say that up to 1800 monarchy was better than democracy? You think the past never has an effect on the now? By your standards, if communism is so bad, USSR being communist must have been weaker than Phillipines, and ignore the differences between developed and developing countries. Only a hardcore fanatic mind can think in your way.

No one forcing import? ok, no one forces others to breathe, but people do it anyways. You can always die if you want to. Fact is, the western free market economic model has brought nothing but ruin to developing countries that tried to follow it. Even Singapore's economic rise was largely state managed. There is absolutely no way for a developing country to industrialize by following the free market since 1945. Industrialization has to be led by the state, with state intervention, investment and protection. This is a cold hard fact and has never been proven elsewise. Free market ideology is a trick designed to keep developing countries down and singing to the white man's tune.

 

[gambit]

What another joke! So why are you not saying Phillipines developed this? China's monarchy developed gunpowder and paper and had steel production unexceeded by Europe's until the 19th century, can we say that up to 1800 monarchy was better than democracy? You think the past never has an effect on the now? By your standards, if communism is so bad, USSR being communist must have been weaker than Phillipines, and ignore the differences between developed and developing countries. Only a hardcore fanatic mind can think in your way.

The joke is on YOU for putting forth this kind of nonsense. The microwave oven question was not about mere scientific achievements but about which system can best exploit scientific achievements FOR THE PEOPLE to the point where the people do not need extensive training to use the products. In that vein, democratic and capitalist regimes have a far better record than communist ones. More like zilch from the latter.

 

[gambit]

No one forcing import? ok, no one forces others to breathe, but people do it anyways. You can always die if you want to. Fact is, the western free market economic model has brought nothing but ruin to developing countries that tried to follow it. Even Singapore's economic rise was largely state managed. There is absolutely no way for a developing country to industrialize by following the free market since 1945. Industrialization has to be led by the state, with state intervention, investment and protection. This is a cold hard fact and has never been proven elsewise. Free market ideology is a trick designed to keep developing countries down and singing to the white man's tune.

As soon as I saw that, I see no need to continue to debunking another piece of nonsense.

 

[below_freezing]

The joke is on YOU for putting forth this kind of nonsense. The microwave oven question was not about mere scientific achievements but about which system can best exploit scientific achievements FOR THE PEOPLE to the point where the people do not need extensive training to use the products. In that vein, democratic and capitalist regimes have a far better record than communist ones. More like zilch from the latter.

Yet another low IQ comment. this all applies to developed countries that had no democracy and protected their markets during industrialization.

C. Political Repression and Control in the Industrial Revolution

Once they developed, they could use "democracy" and "free markets" as a tool to maintain control over their colonies the way USA managed Phillipines and Thailand.

 

[gambit]

Yet another low IQ comment. this all applies to developed countries that had no democracy and protected their markets during industrialization.

C. Political Repression and Control in the Industrial Revolution

Once they developed, they could use "democracy" and "free markets" as a tool to maintain control over their colonies the way USA managed Phillipines and Thailand.

Just show everyone a consistent pattern of achievements that benefited ordinary people from communist regimes. Can you do that?

 

[below_freezing]

Just show everyone a consistent pattern of achievements that benefited ordinary people from communist regimes. Can you do that?

Hybrid Rice in China : APAARI – Asia Pacific Association of Agricultural Research Institutions

Radial keratotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tetris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Graphical sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Platform screen doors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Children's railway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gambit]

Hybrid Rice in China : APAARI – Asia Pacific Association of Agricultural Research Institutions

Radial keratotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tetris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Graphical sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Platform screen doors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Children's railway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You gotta be joking......Or desperate to strain credulity. The hybrid rice I can understand as a legitimate development or improvement, but the Tetris game and the kiddie railroad? Am not going to bother pursuing this issue further...