Vietnam vice minister apologizes to Japan for “$2 Billion loan” gaffe

[William Hung]

In my eyes, this's all as an excuse. Vietnam has the right to refuse ODA from Japan, the only problem is Vietnamese officials they need it.

Who is giving the excuse? the Vietnamese civilians like the Viet members here? Realistically, they do not have the power to refuse Japanese ODA. Only the Viet govt and the Japanese govt (JICA) can refuse or accept these ODA deals. The average Vietnamese people has no influence on these matters.

But it's the average Vietnamese people that will be paying the debts piling up from these ODA. The Japanese govt agency (JICA) is more accountable for these ODA scandals. Realistically, they are the one with the most power to stop or change their ODA program, not the average Vietnamese.

It's foolish to blame it on the average Vietnamese people.

 

[cnleio]

Who is giving the excuse? the Vietnamese civilians like the Viet members here? Realistically, they do not have the power to refuse Japanese ODA. Only the Viet govt and the Japanese govt (JICA) can refuse or accept these ODA deals. The average Vietnamese people has no influence on these matters.

But it's the average Vietnamese people that will be paying the debts piling up from these ODA. The Japanese govt agency (JICA) is more accountable for these ODA scandals. Realistically, they are the one with the most power to stop or change their ODA program, not the average Vietnamese.

It's foolish to blame it on the average Vietnamese people.

I didn't blame any normal Vietnamese, my view is there the only problem inside Vietnam government & officials ... they r addicted to ODAs coz it's a easy way to make money ... even from foreign aid funds ... so u can see how wores corruption inside local officials than ur thought. When corruption out of controls, there's no effective offcial can really work for Vietnamese.

 

[William Hung]

I didn't blame any normal Vietnamese, my view is there the only problem inside Vietnam government & officials ... they r addicted to ODAs coz it's a easy way to make money ... even from foreign aid funds ... so u can see how wores corruption inside local officials than ur thought. When corruption out of controls, there's no effective offcials can really work for Vietnamese.

So who did you say is giving an excuse?

You said VN has the right to refuse these Japanese ODA, who are you talking about?

Were you talking about corrupt Viet officials? No, they dont want to refuse ODA, they love it.

So I'll ask again, who did you say is giving an excuse? who did you say has the right to refuse the ODA?

 

[Toss The Lemon]

. Meaning, these "aid" program are designed so that the borrower will become a slave to the master who provides these loans.

will always be in debt. Meaning, these "aid" program are designed so that the borrower will become a slave to the master who provides these loans.

Have you seen this youtube cartoon? I don't agree with the part on terrorists but everything else they describe looks like the VN-JP ODA relationship:

Have you seen this youtube cartoon? I don't agree with the part on terrorists but everything else they describe looks like the VN-JP ODA relationship:

They are not designed to work!!!!! As Mike2000 has explained, these "AID" are designed so that the poor countries will have to keep borrowing and borrowing and borrowing and will always be in debt. Meaning, these "aid" program are designed so that the borrower will become a slave to the master who provides these loans.

Have you seen this youtube cartoon? I don't agree with the part on terrorists but everything else they describe looks like the VN-JP ODA relationship:

The government of India also agreed to provide loan to Vietnam for financing purchase of equipment and supplies, including USD 100 million for Vietnam sourcing India produced naval patrol ships. Would that increase the dependence of foriegn military equipment and decrease the independence of developing Vietnam's heavy industrial ability?

 

[NiceGuy]

The government of India also agreed to provide loan to Vietnam for financing purchase of equipment and supplies, including USD 100 million for Vietnam sourcing India produced naval patrol ships. Would that increase the dependence of foriegn military equipment and decrease the independence of developing Vietnam's heavy industrial ability?

I posted here already, now, I will post again what Karl Max said: "poor and oppressed nations need help, but help must come from friendly countries". India-Russia-France (maybe US ) r our friendly countries now, so any help from friendly countries is always good for VN, while JP is still not, they worry that VN could become strong like SK and beat their business like what SamSung is doing to Sony now.

But things may change when both VN-JP join the TPP.

 

[William Hung]

The government of India also agreed to provide loan to Vietnam for financing purchase of equipment and supplies, including USD 100 million for Vietnam sourcing India produced naval patrol ships. Would that increase the dependence of foriegn military equipment and decrease the independence of developing Vietnam's heavy industrial ability?

No one knows the answer to this question yet. This is the first time that India has extended a credit line to VN for military procurements. No one knows if this credit line is a one-off offer or if they will continue to extend the credit line. The value of this credit line is also smaller than what Japan has been throwing into VN. $100 million won't make or break an economy like VN.

So I'll answer again, whether India is trying to do what Japan is doing or not, no one knows for sure. You will have to wait and see.

 

[Toss The Lemon]

No one knows the answer to this question yet. This is the first time that India has extended a credit line to VN for military procurements. No one knows if this credit line is a one-off offer or if they will continue to extend the credit line. The value of this credit line is also smaller than what Japan has been throwing into VN. $100 million won't make or break an economy like VN.

So I'll answer again, whether India is trying to do what Japan is doing or not, no one knows for sure. You will have to wait and see.

I just hope the fund also comes with somewhat tech-transfer other than just simply require Vietnam to buy the equipments. I also hope the gov. of Vietnam didn't put all the bet on India, cuz after all, India isn't as close as China is to Vietnam geographically . China and Vietnam are neighbours for thouthands of years, it's the undeniable truth, and both of them will have to face the reality some day.

 

[William Hung]

I just hope the fund also comes with somewhat tech-transfer other than just simply require Vietnam to buy the equipments. I also hope the gov. of Vietnam didn't put all the bet on India, cuz after all, India isn't as close as China is to Vietnam geographically . China and Vietnam are neighbours for thouthands of years, it's the undeniable truth, and both of them will have to face the reality some day.

Where are you from my friend? I don't think any of us here have any influence on what direction our country will take.

 

[William Hung]

I will like to finish/conclude this with a funny statement(i like them), but true/serious one, This is from the word of the late tyrant president of the Central African Republic, Jean Bedel Bokassa, he cynically summed it up by saying: "The French government pays for everything in our country. We ask the French for money. We get it, and then we waste it." Well said man, he summed it all well. Keep the 'aid'/loans coming, we need them

For me, the best Anti-Aid statement is from Peter Bauer:

"Aid is transferring money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries."

hahahahahaha Peter Bauer, or Lord Bauer, is a right winger but I still love this quote.

 

[Rechoice]

This warship is made in Vietnam. Problem for us is money.

 

[William Hung]

This warship is made in Vietnam. Problem for us is money.

View attachment 153667

Of course poor countries need help and money from outside.

The Anti-Aid argument is saying that the "money" or "help" that the Japanese style ODA is giving to your countries is causing you more harm than good.

In the short term, it may look good because people can use the bridge, road, etc,. But in the long term, these kind of ODA is very bad for your country. You need a different kind of help and assistance, not the Japanese ODA type.

 

[Toss The Lemon]

Where are you from my friend? I don't think any of us here have any influence on what direction our country will take.

China.
That's true. What both sides doing right now are good. To "求同存异“ means to ignore the differences and arguements for now, and focus on the common agreement. Such as increase communication on maritime security on SCS, make sure the saftey of the shipping courses, etc.

 

[Rechoice]

Of course poor countries need help and money from outside.

The Anti-Aid argument is saying that the "money" or "help" that the Japanese style ODA is giving to your countries is causing you more harm than good.

In the short term, it may look good because people can use the bridge, road, etc,. But in the long term, these kind of ODA is very bad for your country. You need a different kind of help and assistance, not the Japanese ODA type.

I'm a technician, so I don't have more idea than what I have read in newspaper here in Vietnam. Vietnam is developing country, poor and backward. ODA Loan is important for us in first step to develop our country after Vietnam war, country is fully destroyed, and we don't have money. I think Vietnam can play this game in short time. We have stop receive ODA in reasonable time when our public debt is reached to permited amount. I agree with you.

However, base on my experience I think ODA project is good for VN technically. For example, for the technology transfer. After Haivan tunel completed. We could designed and built Deongang Tunel by ourselves.

 

[Aepsilons]

I'm a technician, so I don't have more idea than what I have read in newspaper here in Vietnam. Vietnam is developing country, poor and backward. ODA Loan is important for us in first step to develop our country after Vietnam war, country is fully destroyed, and we don't have money. I think Vietnam can play this game in short time. We have stop receive ODA in reasonable time when our public debt is reached to permited amount. I agree with you.

However, base on my experience I think ODA project is good for VN technically. For example, for the technology transfer. After Haivan tunel completed. We could designed and built Deongang Tunel by ourselves.

These are the costs in developing a nation. Nations don't develop free of debt as what some others here might think possible.

 

[dropkix]

Lolllll... he looks like a really nice guy, he wasjust on flu meds, poor chutiya got confused