Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viet]

this thread is named as Vietnam Military News & Discussion, therefore I'm very surprised to see that an active member of this thread now told me this is not the right place to looking for information about made in Vietnam weapons.

Could you pls kindly direct me to the right thread? many many thanks!


Sure. I'm also very proud to be part of China.

I must disappoint you as I have no clue where you can get the latest info about Made in VN weapons.
how about this: you send an inquiry to Vietnam Army Headquarter, asking the source directly?

here is the address:
Vietnam People´s Army, the Headquarters
7 Nguyen Tri Phuong Street
Hanoi

 

[GS Zhou]

I must disappoint you as I have no clue where you can get the latest info about Made in VN weapons.
how about this: you send an inquiry to Vietnam Army Headquarter, asking the source directly?

here is the address:
Vietnam People´s Army, the Headquarters
7 Nguyen Tri Phuong Street
Hanoi

Thanks for your great tips!

Feel sorry for you, because even a patriotic Vietnamese doesn't know where to get the update for information of Made-in-Vietnam weapons. I think VN army must be doing a superb job on keeping secrets! A great role model to China, Russia and U.S.!

 

[Viet]

Thanks for your great tips!

Feel sorry for you, because even a patriotic Vietnamese doesn't know where to get the update for information of Made-in-Vietnam weapons. I think VN army must be doing a superb job on keeping secrets! A great role model to China, Russia and U.S.!

You are welcome my chinese friend. Not too sure if we are a model for you. I don't think so.

Wanting to give you a tip: if you contact the people from the army, avoid saying you are from China (you can be suspected as a Chinese spy), saying you are from Japan, a nihonjin, admiring Vietnam military technology. Pls find out if our army has destroyers under development. I am a fan of US Aegis destroyer, you know.

Good luck!

 

[GS Zhou]

You are welcome my chinese friend. Not too sure if we are a model for you. I don't think so.

Wanting to give you a tip: if you contact the people from the army, avoid saying you are from China (you can be suspected as a Chinese spy), saying you are from Japan, a nihonjin, admiring Vietnam military technology. Pls find out if our army has destroyers under development. I am a fan of US Aegis destroyer, you know.

Good luck!

Thanks for your kind advice. But I'm an honest man, and pretend to be a Japanese will make me feel uncomfortable. So I will just tell the VN army that I'm a Chinese with interests in Made-in-Vietnam weapons. And writing them the letter is a kind advice from my Vietnamese friend @Viet

Glad to hear that you are a fan of Aegis destroyer. I'm also a fan of it! But US is too far away to Vietnam, why not shift your passion to the Chinese Aegis destroyers? Wanna to share you a satellite picture of a shipyard in Shanghai: six Aegis destroyers (052Dx5, 052cx1)are under construction simultaneously! Hope you like the picture.

Pls don't challenge me that I'm derailing the topic. I just want to entertain your interests on Aegis destroyers!

 

[vtnsx]

 

[Mokaman]

Yes, I agree that let's make the conversation in a rational and polite way. I'll stop using the word like stupid, meanwhile, could you plz. urge other VN PDFer on this thread stop using the insult tone like "crawl back into the shitty hole that you called home"? Agree?


Thanks for the response. Let me make a quick summary of your long message:

1. you believe the the infantry units could contribute to VN for a victory against China. The detailed approaches include: a) deploy a big amount of manpower on the islands to defend the attack; b) send a large infantry unit to attack 1 or 2 Chinese islands; c) shoot down the Chinese fighters via portable missiles; d) attack Yunnan or Guangxi of China
2. you believe Vietnam will bring a big casualty to China, which will make the one-child society hard to bear
3. you believe Vietnam is 10years behind China in terms of military industry capability, but Vietnam is now quickly catching up.

Now I will try to address each of the points that you put:
1-a: deploy a big amount of manpower on the islands to defend the attack.
I'm not sure about the exact size of the VN controlled islands in the South China Sea. But even the largest island that you controlled won't be larger than 1km2, or 1000m x 1000m. You could put as many soldiers as you want on the tiny island, but the problem here is:
- an ultra high infantry density will cause horrible casualty to Vietnam. Just imagine how many people a 250kg aerial bomb could kill if it hits a big crowds
- how could you feed these units in war time? All the necessary supplies, even water, needs to be shipped from the land to the islands. This won't be an issue in peaceful time. But now we are talking about war time, how could you guarantee the safety of your supply lines? You really think you could get the command of the sea in war time?

1-b: send a large infantry unit to attack 1 or 2 Chinese islands
this is again a question of command of the sea. Could you get it from the PLA Navy and the PLA Airforce?

1-c: shoot down the Chinese fighters via portable missiles
I don't deny the possibility fully. But the situation on the small islands is completely different to the USSR/Afghanistan war. The massive size of Afghanistan, as well as its mountainous terrain leaves USSR no other choice but to send its helicopters or fixed-wings planes to fly very low and make the attack within the visual range. The USSR pilots have no ideas where the threaten is, maybe from the bottom, or from the right side, or the left side, or even from the above (e.g. when the plane/helicopter is flying at the bottom of the canyon).

But this is completely not the case for a battle on a small island! We have plenty of long-range missiles to attack the island; the Chinese pilots also don't need to worry about a sudden attack from nowhere, all they need to focus is the small island (1000m x 1000m)!

1-d: attack Yunnan or Guangxi of China
I said on this thread again and again that we don't have any interests in the VN land. But that doesn't mean our ground units in Guangxi or Yunnan will be in vacation during the war time. They will be in full preparation for any land assaults from Vietnam. What I want to remind you is that, if the battle concentrates on the sea and the islands alone, this is still a regional conflict that within control. At least the VN cities could be in safety. But if any land assaults made by Vietnam, we will do an immediate revenge. Even Hanoi will be in extreme danger. We could only guarantee the safety of the tomb of Uncle Ho, because we respect him fully as we respect Mao.

2. You believe Vietnam will bring a big casualty to China, which will make the one-child society hard to bear
I don't expect a zero-death victory. That is impossible. But it doesn't mean Vietnam could make a big casualty to China. Could you get the command of the air? the command of the sea? If you don't have any, how could you make a big casualty to China?

One child policy brings us huge benefits, but also with many social problems. The affordability of war casualty is one of it. But that doesn't mean we thereof become vulnerable. In especially for a war that gaining back the islands or the sea that belonging to us!

BYW, it is too risky to place the victory bet on the so called "mentally vulnerable" of your opponent.

3. you believe Vietnam is 10years behind China in terms of military industry capability.
10 year gap means theoretically that Vietnam should be capable of the things we did in 2004 or 2005. We built our own 052C class destroyers in 2005. Do you mean that Vietnam is capable of this today? We built our own J10 in 1990s', so there must be many VN J10 in service now! Am I right? If J10 is still too complicated for you today, how about MIG21? We built J7 in 1960s', is Vietnam capable of making its own MIG21 today? Tell me your answer! Can, or cannot?

There is nothing more dangerous than underestimate your opponent, in particular it is a much stronger guy than you. But now I do have the feeling that some VN PDFers on this thread have such tendency. Some one said the defence spending ratio is China 10 vs Vietnam 1, but in fact it is 50 vs 1; now you said VN is 10 years behind China for military industry, but in fact it is at least 40 or 50 years gap. And the big spending of China is enlarging the gap constantly. Even if one day VN achieves China's capability today, how far China could go?

Finally, you couldn't stop me believe China could get back all the islands on the South China Sea. I believe this just like I believe Brazil could beat China easily in a football match. The capability gap is so huge! No matter how hard our football players perform, there won't be other outcome for a CN vs BR football game.

I know VN wants to beat us eagerly. There exists no short cut, but to work harder for more taxes payment and stronger domestic manufacturing industry!

It hard to try discuss with someone who doesn't have any military background and his only knowledge come for internet and books, but I will try. I try to be very rational and neutral, because I don't really care who gotta take that hot potato Spratley.

1. I never say anything about putting troop on those tiny islands, it's too small. Those garrisons on those tiny islands are for purely symbolic and politic purposes. But I believe that VPA submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters can give a nice and honorable fight.

2. PLA cant be everywhere and have a heavy military presence in every corner of the South China sea. There would certainly a weak spot somewhere . And don't try to put that aircraft carrier in action in Spratley, it wont last long.

3. About Afghanistan, Soviet use helicopters (transport & gunship) and planes. Choppers fly really low to supply or transport troops(targeting them when they takeoff or landing was a easy) and planes fly was too high and only lower down to launch their load. You are in a mountain or in a canoe with MANPAD, the pilot in the plane cant see you, he's thousand meters above you. Like I say above, those tiny islands are not occupy for defense purposes.

4. China- Vietnam border is long and mountainous. Commando raids is very plausible, I believe that if VietNam poke China enough to make her mad and send PLA for an invasion then China fall in the trap of Vietnam.s strategy..Make a small conflict into a larger one. If you think PLA will have a nice walk to Ha Noi, then PLA would need at least 500 000 troops for that walk. And Viet Nam have being getting the VPA ready for that scenario for the last 36 years.

5. About casualty, VietNam will never attack China, but the other way is a possibility .the country who is defending can always take a higher casualties toll in the name of patriotism. So it all come down to how long the Chinese government(in a scenario he start the conflict) will have the support of the people. The Chinese population will certainly accept a short and small scale conflict in Spratley but what happen if VPA do cross border attacks and PLA decide to enter into Viet Nam. Vietnamese government have all the interest to drag PLA into Viet Nam so that the whole world can see who is the aggressor and then have the sympathy of the world. Would Chinese population accept the casualties toll of the invasion of Viet Nam?

6. Vietnam produce already infantry weapons, canons,drones, night vision, ships, missiles...ect. So why saying Viet Nam is 40-50 years behind when they have a respectable weapon industry. Viet Nam would never produce stealth fighters because why invest money and time research for 200-300 planes you need. Buying them is cheaper. For a superpower like China, it's a must to produce hightech weapons because she need in great numbers and it's prestigious to have other countries using them. The best solution for Viet Nam is to have technology transfer by buying licenses. VPA already start producing a lot of nice weapons under licenses. Are you going to say Canada and Australia are behind China because they don't produce missiles and jetfighter? They just don't need in great numbers, that's why buying is cheaper. Most countries can produce any weapons, just give them the licenses.

7. So China would risk the economic and politic relations with all the countries in the regions for the Spratley islands. China would also don't care about all the sanctions that come with the take over and the impact on relations with all other countries in world. PLA would just invade and kick out the Pinoys, the Viets, Malaysian, Taiwanese out and tomorrow is a new day without reaction from the world. Thank to China aggressive way, all the countries in the region invest heavily in navy and airforce lately. What was suppose to be easy a few years ago look a little bit tougher and tougher in the future because everyone will be equipped with the same high tech weapon (jets, subs, missiles, ships....) but PLA will have the edge on numbers.

By the way, I live in Canada and most people here try to avoid paying taxes because people are feed up with mismanagement of their taxes money. And taxes keep going up and government services is lesser and lesser by years. I respect your patriotism but you starting to have a superiority complex toward everybody who is not a PLA supporters. Just like the Japanese during WW2, thinking they are a superior race with their imperial army invading whatever they want and considering Chinese and other Asian people like sub-humans. Like I told you, I'm analyzing everything in rational and neutral way and I just don't care what happen because the outcome won't make me any richer. I think the best and less expensive way for China is negotiation between countries, China would certainly take a big piece of cake instead of going around bullying and may lose it all, because all the competitors (Japan, USA and Western countries) of China will gladly help Viet Nam and others with high tech weapons and aids.

 

[GS Zhou]

It hard to try discuss with someone who doesn't have any military background and his only knowledge come for internet and books, but I will try. I try to be very rational and neutral, because I don't really care who gotta take that hot potato Spratley.

1. I never say anything about putting troop on those tiny islands, it's too small. Those garrisons on those tiny islands are for purely symbolic and politic purposes. But I believe that VPA submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters can give a nice and honorable fight.

2. PLA cant be everywhere and have a heavy military presence in every corner of the South China sea. There would certainly a weak spot somewhere . And don't try to put that aircraft carrier in action in Spratley, it wont last long.

3. About Afghanistan, Soviet use helicopters (transport & gunship) and planes. Choppers fly really low to supply or transport troops(targeting them when they takeoff or landing was a easy) and planes fly was too high and only lower down to launch their load. You are in a mountain or in a canoe with MANPAD, the pilot in the plane cant see you, he's thousand meters above you. Like I say above, those tiny islands are not occupy for defense purposes.

4. China- Vietnam border is long and mountainous. Commando raids is very plausible, I believe that if VietNam poke China enough to make PLA try an invasion then China fall in the trap of Vietnam.s strategy..Make a small conflict into a larger one. If you think PLA will have a nice walk to Ha Noi, then PLA would need at least 500 000 troops for that walk. And Viet Nam have being getting the VPA ready for that scenario for the last 36 years.

5. About casualty, VietNam will never attack China, but the other way is a possibility .the country who is defending can always take a higher casualties toll in the name of patriotism. So it all come down to how long the Chinese government(in a scenario he start the conflict) will have the support of the people. The Chinese population will certainly accept a short and small scale conflict in Spratley but what happen if VPA do cross border attacks and PLA decide to enter into Viet Nam. Vietnamese government have all the interest to drag PLA into Viet Nam so that the whole world can see who is the aggressor and then have the sympathy of the world. Would Chinese population accept the casualties toll of the invasion of Viet Nam?

6. Vietnam produce already infantry weapons, canons,drones, night vision, ships, missiles...ect. So why saying Viet Nam is 40-50 years behind when they have a respectable weapon industry. Viet Nam would never produce stealth fighters because why invest money and time research for 200-300 planes you need. Buying them is cheaper. For a superpower like China, it's a must to produce hightech weapons because she need in great numbers and it's prestigious to have other countries using them. The best solution for Viet Nam is to have technology transfer by buying licenses. VPA already start producing a lot of nice weapons under licenses. Are you going to say Canada and Australia are behind China because they don't produce missiles and jetfighter? They just don't need in great numbers, that's why buying is cheaper. Most countries can produce any weapons, just give them the licenses.

7. So China would risk the economic and politic relations with all the countries in the regions for the Spratley islands. China would also don't care about all the sanctions that come with the take over and the impact on relations with all other countries in world. PLA would just invade and kick out the Pinoys, the Viets, Malaysian, Taiwanese out and tomorrow is a new day without reaction from the world. Thank to China aggressive way, all the countries in the region invest heavily in navy and airforce lately. What was suppose to be easy a few years ago look a little bit tougher and tougher in the future because everyone will be equipped with the same high tech weapon (jets, subs, missiles, ships....) but PLA will have the edge on numbers.

By the way, I live in Canada and most people here try to avoid paying taxes because people are feed up with mismanagement of their taxes money. And taxes keep going up and government services is lesser and lesser by years. I respect your patriotism but you starting to have a superiority complex toward everybody who is not a PLA supporters. Just like the Japanese during WW2, thinking they are a superior race with their imperial army invading whatever they want and considering Chinese and other Asian people like sub-humans. Like I told you, I'm analyzing everything in rational and neutral way and I just don't care what happen because the outcome won't make me any richer.

• I respect your infantry service experience fully. But pls stop selling it here. Your experience may be helpful to WW2 or the 1979 war, but what we are talking about now is a modern air/sea battle in 2015 onward. That is why Vietnam Army is so reluctant to put the investment on its ground units, but to invest most of its budget on air or sea units.

• Why do you think an assault on the VN land necessarily needs 500,000 troops to walk into Vietnam? Do you live in 2015 or 1945? I even don't want to mention the things like cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, air-to-land missiles, these stuff are obviously too complicated to an outdated infantry veteran. Lets just talk about land artillery, which should be the closet area to you. Do you have any clue about the range of the monster below? Do you have any idea about its accuracy? Hanoi is nothing but a medium-size city that 140km to the China-Vietnam border

• The new VN equipment you mentioned, submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters, they seem to be power stuff in peaceful time. But that is not the case in war time!! A modern war today is no longer the war of "one piece of weapon vs. another piece of weapon", it is a "System vs. System" war. Take VN fighter vs. CN ship case as an example:

1. You need to know where the Chinese ship is! That's actually a very very difficult job! The globe is not flat, it is a sphere! This means the ground-based radar is very much short eye-sighted for a water target. You may argue that Vietnam holds some islands on the South China sea, and the radar stations on these islands could extend the search distance of Vietnam. That's true at peaceful time; but now we are talking about war! these radar stations are very vulnerable at war times; they are the easiest targets for the China Air Force, or the 2nd Artillery.
2. Satellite is the best way to get the initial / rough location information of the CN ships. But does Vietnam has the satellite capability now? No. It needs time, and needs tons of investment. But even if you get it one day, a cruel fact to you is that China already owns strong anti-satellite capabilities. How could you guarantee the safety of your satellite in war times?
3. Even if you get the location information of the ships via satellite, you need to make sure that you could be updated with the location information constantly, because the Chinese fleet is moving constantly! The best way for this job is to use AWACS system. Because the satellite could only stay above a specific area for a short period of time. But do you have AWACS system now? No. It needs time again, and also tons of investment. Even if you have it, AWACS system itself is very vulnerable. You need to make sure such a high-value asset would not be shot down by J10, J11, J15, J16, or J20. There must be a competition among the Chinese pilots for such a target!
4. Lets assume that your satellite is not shot down by China, your AWACS is also in a safe situation. Now you find that the Chinese fleet is in a good area for your fighter. So the fighter takes off.
5. Wait, a precondition for fighters taking off is that the airport hasn't been bombed by the Chinese bombers (H6K) or cruise missiles (DF10), or basaltic missiles (DF11/15/16/21) yet, you'd better prey for it.
6. Now you are lucky enough. The airport is fortunately not be bombed by China yet. So the fighters take off, and your AWACS guides your fighters to get closer and closer to the Chinese fleet. But how could you make sure the safety of your fighters on the air? The island construction done by China means China could easily deploy fighters to the South China Sea to protect the Chinese fleet. Do you have full confidence about the survival of your fighters?
7. Ok, maybe your fighter is blessed by the god. So they successfully enter the range for launching air-to-ship missiles. But the Chinese ships are not naked. The 052D, 052C, or even 054A, they are designed for such tasks. I just put a picture of a Shanghai-based shipyard on this thread. There are six Aegis warships (5x 052D, 1x 052C) under construction simultaneously! Could you understand the implication behind it??

• Canada and Australia are of course far way behind China in terms of either military industry, or the overall manufacturing industry capability. I don't know why you feel surprised on this. A modern military industry is the reflection of a strong manufacturing sector. The strengthen of US military industry not only comes from Lockheed Martin, but also coming from none-military companies like GM, Ford or Caterpillar. The strength of Germany comes from Daimler or Siemens as well. The strength of China is just the same, Sany, XCMG, Shanghai Electric, Harbin Electric, FAW Jiefang, CNR, CSR, Huawei, it is actually these none-military companies that pave the road to a strong military industry! But for Canada or Australia, could you pls name a few manufacturing companies that are with global leadership positions?

• In terms of tax payment, plz don't use the example of a much developed country like Canada. Canada has almost zero military pressure, it owns great infrastructures, great medical system, great education system. But does Vietnam has any of the these points? If the answer is NO, does Vietnam has any solution other than tax collections to deal will all these tough points??

 

[TheConquerer]

What is this?

 

[GS Zhou]

Are those missiles are reliable? Please stop scaring people, you start to look like those Americans thinking they can scare and beat everyone before the meltdown of Iraq and Afghanistan. PLA have zero combat experience and it will be a hell of mess to see PLA in real combat action

Why don't you say all the Chinese stuff are paper-made?

We are not talking about the war to conquer a country fully!! I mentioned this again and again. We are talking about some small islands on the sea!! If US only wants to get some islands from Iraq, can anyone stop it?

PLA is short of real combat experience. But Is Vietnam owning rich experience in a modern air and sea war?

 

[Mokaman]

• I respect your infantry service experience fully. But pls stop selling it here. Your experience may be helpful to WW2 or the 1979 war, but what we are talking about now is a modern air/sea battle in 2015 onward. That is why Vietnam Army is so reluctant to put the investment on its ground units, but to invest most of its budget on air or sea units.

• Why do you think an assault on the VN land necessarily needs 500,000 troops to walk into Vietnam? Do you live in 2015 or 1945? I even don't want to mention the things like cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, air-to-land missiles, these stuff are obviously too complicated to an outdated infantry veteran. Lets just talk about land artillery, which should be the closet area to you. Do you have any clue about the range of the monster below? Do you have any idea about its accuracy? Hanoi is nothing but a medium-size city that 140km to the China-Vietnam border

View attachment 270553 View attachment 270555 View attachment 270564

• The new VN equipment you mentioned, submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters, they seem to be power stuff in peaceful time. But that is not the case in war time!! A modern war today is no longer the war of "one piece of weapon vs. another piece of weapon", it is a "System vs. System" war. Take VN fighter vs. CN ship case as an example:

1. You need to know where the Chinese ship is! That's actually a very very difficult job! The globe is not flat, it is a sphere! This means the ground-based radar is very much short eye-sighted for a water target. You may argue that Vietnam holds some islands on the South China sea, and the radar stations on these islands could extend the search distance of Vietnam. That's true at peaceful time; but now we are talking about war! these radar stations are very vulnerable at war times; they are the easiest targets for the China Air Force, or the 2nd Artillery.
2. Satellite is the best way to get the initial / rough location information of the CN ships. But does Vietnam has the satellite capability now? No. It needs time, and needs tons of investment. But even if you get it one day, a cruel fact to you is that China already owns strong anti-satellite capabilities. How could you guarantee the safety of your satellite in war times?
3. Even if you get the location information of the ships via satellite, you need to make sure that you could be updated with the location information constantly, because the Chinese fleet is moving constantly! The best way for this job is to use AWACS system. Because the satellite could only stay above a specific area for a short period of time. But do you have AWACS system now? No. It needs time again, and also tons of investment. Even if you have it, AWACS system itself is very vulnerable. You need to make sure such a high-value asset would not be shot down by J10, J11, J15, J16, or J20. There must be a competition among the Chinese pilots for such a target!
4. Lets assume that your satellite is not shot down by China, your AWACS is also in a safe situation. Now you find that the Chinese fleet is in a good area for your fighter. So the fighter takes off.
5. Wait, a precondition for fighters taking off is that the airport hasn't been bombed by the Chinese bombers (H6K) or cruise missiles (DF10), or basaltic missiles (DF11/15/16/21) yet, you'd better prey for it.
6. Now you are lucky enough. The airport is fortunately not be bombed by China yet. So the fighters take off, and your AWACS guides your fighters to get closer and closer to the Chinese fleet. But how could you make sure the safety of your fighters on the air? The island construction done by China means China could easily deploy fighters to the South China Sea to protect the Chinese fleet. Do you have full confidence about the survival of your fighters?
7. Ok, maybe your fighter is blessed by the god. So they successfully enter the range for launching air-to-ship missiles. But the Chinese ships are not naked. The 052D, 052C, or even 054A, they are designed for such tasks. I just put a picture of a Shanghai-based shipyard on this thread. There are six Aegis warships (5x 052D, 1x 052C) under construction simultaneously! Could you understand the implication behind it??

• Canada and Australia are of course far way behind China in terms of either military industry, or the overall manufacturing industry capability. I don't know why you feel surprised on this. A modern military industry is the reflection of a strong manufacturing sector. The strengthen of US military industry not only comes from Lockheed Martin, but also coming from none-military companies like GM, Ford or Caterpillar. The strength of Germany comes from Daimler or Siemens as well. The strength of China is just the same, Sany, XCMG, Shanghai Electric, Harbin Electric, FAW Jiefang, CNR, CSR, Huawei, it is actually these none-military companies that pave the road to a strong military industry! But for Canada or Australia, could you pls name a few manufacturing companies that are with global leadership positions?

• In terms of tax payment, plz don't use the example of a much developed country like Canada. Canada has almost zero military pressure, it owns great infrastructures, great medical system, great education system. But does Vietnam has any of the these points? If the answer is NO, does Vietnam has any solution other than tax collections to deal will all these tough points??

You wasting my time with your theories that even PLA (with zero combat experience try to apply). Let say that USA and Japanese will gladly give the info on PLA positions in case of conflict

 

[GS Zhou]

You wasting my time with your theories that even PLA (with zero combat experience try to apply). Let say that USA and Japanese will gladly give the info on PLA positions in case of conflict

Vietnam must been rich in experience of a high-tech sea/air battle!!

 

[Mokaman]

Why don't you say all the Chinese stuff are paper-made?

We are not talking about the war to conquer a country fully!! I mentioned this again and again. We are talking about some small islands on the sea!! If US only wants to get some islands from Iraq, can anyone stop it?

PLA is short of real combat experience. But Is Vietnam owning rich experience in a modern air and sea war?

You said that Ha Noi will be in danger from PLA. So I assume a partial invasion

Vietnam must been rich in experience of a high-tech sea/air battle!!

Please re-read my post...Let say that USA and Japanese will gladly give the info on PLA positions in case of conflict

Source: Vietnam Military News & Discussion | Page 343

 

[cnleio]

Why don't you say all the Chinese stuff are paper-made?

We are not talking about the war to conquer a country fully!! I mentioned this again and again. We are talking about some small islands on the sea!! If US only wants to get some islands from Iraq, can anyone stop it?

PLA is short of real combat experience. But Is Vietnam owning rich experience in a modern air and sea war?

See, a complex question is here still aftertaste the memory of 1960s Vietnam War and 50-year-ago experience ... and call all they don't know is the 'Paper Tiger' or 'unreliable' ... simply speaking, they just thinking others as same level & poor as them and deny the truth behind others.

 

[GS Zhou]

You said that Ha Noi will be in danger from PLA. I

Any thing wrong to this comment? Hanoi is just 140km far away from the border. You mean 140km is a formidable gap to the Chinese missiles, bombers, fighters, or the long-range rocket systems that I just put in this thread?

 

[Mokaman]

• I respect your infantry service experience fully. But pls stop selling it here. Your experience may be helpful to WW2 or the 1979 war, but what we are talking about now is a modern air/sea battle in 2015 onward. That is why Vietnam Army is so reluctant to put the investment on its ground units, but to invest most of its budget on air or sea units.

• Why do you think an assault on the VN land necessarily needs 500,000 troops to walk into Vietnam? Do you live in 2015 or 1945? I even don't want to mention the things like cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, air-to-land missiles, these stuff are obviously too complicated to an outdated infantry veteran. Lets just talk about land artillery, which should be the closet area to you. Do you have any clue about the range of the monster below? Do you have any idea about its accuracy? Hanoi is nothing but a medium-size city that 140km to the China-Vietnam border

View attachment 270553 View attachment 270555 View attachment 270564

• The new VN equipment you mentioned, submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters, they seem to be power stuff in peaceful time. But that is not the case in war time!! A modern war today is no longer the war of "one piece of weapon vs. another piece of weapon", it is a "System vs. System" war. Take VN fighter vs. CN ship case as an example:

1. You need to know where the Chinese ship is! That's actually a very very difficult job! The globe is not flat, it is a sphere! This means the ground-based radar is very much short eye-sighted for a water target. You may argue that Vietnam holds some islands on the South China sea, and the radar stations on these islands could extend the search distance of Vietnam. That's true at peaceful time; but now we are talking about war! these radar stations are very vulnerable at war times; they are the easiest targets for the China Air Force, or the 2nd Artillery.
2. Satellite is the best way to get the initial / rough location information of the CN ships. But does Vietnam has the satellite capability now? No. It needs time, and needs tons of investment. But even if you get it one day, a cruel fact to you is that China already owns strong anti-satellite capabilities. How could you guarantee the safety of your satellite in war times?
3. Even if you get the location information of the ships via satellite, you need to make sure that you could be updated with the location information constantly, because the Chinese fleet is moving constantly! The best way for this job is to use AWACS system. Because the satellite could only stay above a specific area for a short period of time. But do you have AWACS system now? No. It needs time again, and also tons of investment. Even if you have it, AWACS system itself is very vulnerable. You need to make sure such a high-value asset would not be shot down by J10, J11, J15, J16, or J20. There must be a competition among the Chinese pilots for such a target!
4. Lets assume that your satellite is not shot down by China, your AWACS is also in a safe situation. Now you find that the Chinese fleet is in a good area for your fighter. So the fighter takes off.
5. Wait, a precondition for fighters taking off is that the airport hasn't been bombed by the Chinese bombers (H6K) or cruise missiles (DF10), or basaltic missiles (DF11/15/16/21) yet, you'd better prey for it.
6. Now you are lucky enough. The airport is fortunately not be bombed by China yet. So the fighters take off, and your AWACS guides your fighters to get closer and closer to the Chinese fleet. But how could you make sure the safety of your fighters on the air? The island construction done by China means China could easily deploy fighters to the South China Sea to protect the Chinese fleet. Do you have full confidence about the survival of your fighters?
7. Ok, maybe your fighter is blessed by the god. So they successfully enter the range for launching air-to-ship missiles. But the Chinese ships are not naked. The 052D, 052C, or even 054A, they are designed for such tasks. I just put a picture of a Shanghai-based shipyard on this thread. There are six Aegis warships (5x 052D, 1x 052C) under construction simultaneously! Could you understand the implication behind it??

• Canada and Australia are of course far way behind China in terms of either military industry, or the overall manufacturing industry capability. I don't know why you feel surprised on this. A modern military industry is the reflection of a strong manufacturing sector. The strengthen of US military industry not only comes from Lockheed Martin, but also coming from none-military companies like GM, Ford or Caterpillar. The strength of Germany comes from Daimler or Siemens as well. The strength of China is just the same, Sany, XCMG, Shanghai Electric, Harbin Electric, FAW Jiefang, CNR, CSR, Huawei, it is actually these none-military companies that pave the road to a strong military industry! But for Canada or Australia, could you pls name a few manufacturing companies that are with global leadership positions?

• In terms of tax payment, plz don't use the example of a much developed country like Canada. Canada has almost zero military pressure, it owns great infrastructures, great medical system, great education system. But does Vietnam has any of the these points? If the answer is NO, does Vietnam has any solution other than tax collections to deal will all these tough points??

With all those artillery and missiles pics, you applying the same game plan as the american. Massive bombardement and carpet of bombs, The American did that during the Viet Nam war, for 8 years and the total amount of bombs was 3-4 times of all the bombs use by all armies altogether during ww2 ( 1 Hiroshima bomb a week for 8 years).

Today, Viet Nam have the artillery and missiles to attack China in respond as well but in lesser numbers. Nobody is scare of nobody and nobody should allow someone attack you without giving a honorable fight. So Please, let allow the VPA fight for the honor even if they lose