Vietnam Defence Forum

[Aqsuperman]

Training with a certain country..........

 

[Viet]

Japan donates two boats to Vietnam to patrol South China Sea

ANADOLU AGENCY
TOKYO
Published 18 hours ago

Japan Coast Guard Ki ta ka Mi (PM02) Teshio-class patrol boat.

Japan has sent two boats to Vietnam to be used as patrol boats amid China's recent demonstrations of force in the South China Sea.

Kyodo News reported Tuesday that the Japanese government had provided two second-hand fishing boats to the Vietnamese coast guard to strengthen the country's law enforcement capability.

China continues to defend its maritime boundary claims in the South China Sea in response to United States warships sailing near the Spratly Islands -- where it has reportedly constructed two artificial islands on Subi and Mischief reefs.

China's military released photos late Sunday that show fighter jets flying over the sea near Vietnamese waters.

Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, and the Philippines have also laid claims to areas of the Spratly archipelago.

The donated vessels form part of an aid deal signed between Japan and Vietnam in Aug. 2014. They were delivered to Danang, a city on Vietnam's east coast, to be refurbished as patrol boats.

The aid-in-kind deal provided for the delivery of six vessels to the Vietnamese side, with two remaining to be delivered, Kyodo News reported.

The U.S. and Japan have expressed alarm at China's maritime expansion, which they suspect is aimed at extending its military reach, while the Philippines -- which calls the area the West Philippine Sea -- has taken the quarrel to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea in The Hague.

Japan will reportedly assist Vietnam with additional vessels under a separate agreement signed in Sept. 2014.

Japan donates two boats to Vietnam to patrol South China Sea - Daily Sabah

 

[GS Zhou]

Interesting development: Japanese Media (Nikkei) reports during the upcoming visit of Japan defence minister Gen Nakatani to Vietnam, Japanese government seeks to negotiate sending for the first time ever warships for visits and exercises with Vietnam in the SC Sea, starting 2016. exciting times ahead. I think the chinese have no reason to complain. they are the one that seeks confrontation.

We won't complain. All that we do is to accelerate the pace for island construction in South China Sea.

Feel happy for the Guangzhou Military Region and the South Sea Fleet, because they now have stronger reasons to ask for more defence fee from the government.

we still have some surprises for you.

Russia is willing to offer Kalibr cruise missile for next generation of Vietnam surface warships. so the Molynia would likely carry additional Kalibr, a land attack missle, instead of only Uran-E antiship missiles today. if you don´t know what Kalibr is, just ask the IS terrorists, because they had tasted the missiles from the russian warships recently.

Honestly, the most surprising thing to me is that although Vietnam's total GDP is even shorter than China's military spending (Vietnam GDP 186 billion USD vs. China defense spending 216 billion USD, both 2014 figures), some Vietnam persons still believe they could pose military threatens to China

 

[Viet]

We won't complain. All that we do is to accelerate the pace for island construction in South China Sea.

Feel happy for the Guangzhou Military Region and the South Sea Fleet, because they now have stronger reasons to ask for more defence fee from the government.

you have a perfect excuse, haven´t you? I hope we have fulfilled your wish.
but come on, you can admit whatever we do, you will see it as excuse for your military build-up.

Honestly, the most surprising thing to me is that although Vietnam's total GDP is even shorter than China's military spending (Vietnam GDP 186 billion USD vs. China defense spending 216 billion USD, both 2014 figures), some Vietnam persons still believe they could pose military threatens to China

it is about defending our country against aggression. if you see it as a threat, then be it. by the way what is your point of comparing GDP figures? I can list here a number of countries in the world whose GDP is lower than the afromentioned defence spending. will you come taking their people´s property, raping their people just because they are poor? should I give you my little money because you are richer than me?

 

[GS Zhou]

you have a perfect excuse, haven´t you? I hope we have fulfilled your wish.
but come on, you can admit whatever we do, you will see it as excuse for your military build-up.

it is about defending our country against aggression. if you see it as a threat, then be it. by the way what is your point of comparing GDP figures? I can list here a number of countries in the world whose GDP is lower than the afromentioned defence spending. will you come taking their people´s property, raping their people just because they are poor? should I give you my little money because you are richer than me?

We don't have interests to get your land or your people. Needless to say rape. All that we want is to get back the islands and sea that belonging to us

You have every reason to develop and modernize your army. I fully respect that. But given the huge gaps between China and Vietnam, either in the areas of economic affordability or military industry capabilities, the more you understand modern warfare, the more desperate you will be.

If I were you, I would not spend time on posting these meaningless pictures. I would rather think of if there are any particular things I could do for my motherland. Maybe get better engineering education to help Vietnam modernize its manufacturing industry, or work harder and pay more taxes to the government. This is the right things that a patriotic Vietnamese should do.

 

[Aqsuperman]

The more you understand our "history" , the more you see that military spending impact little on the the real war , unless all those spending is only for 3 military region that close to the Southern border . The point never was reaching China capabilities and never will , the point is to protect and take back what is rightfully our, you got your reasons we got our . And shall the only solution is another repeat of the '79 , we will see it to the end . and about us posting picture ? its a way for us to discuss our army potential , in the end this is a military discussion thread , taxes ? we pay them well , and in case of war , the manpower wil be us . Everybody got their job to fulfill , you cant expect every single person to have the same way to prove themselve patriotic

Some new toys for our police

 

[GS Zhou]

The more you understand our "history" , the more you see that military spending impact little on the the real war , unless all those spending is only for 3 military region that close to the Southern border . The point never was reaching China capabilities and never will , the point is to protect and take back what is rightfully our, you got your reasons we got our . And shall the only solution is another repeat of the '79 , we will see it to the end . and about us posting picture ? its a way for us to discuss our army potential , in the end this is a military discussion thread , taxes ? we pay them well , and in case of war , the manpower wil be us . Everybody got their job to fulfill , you cant expect every single person to have the same way to prove themselve patriotic

Some new toys for our police

If one spends 100 on military and another spends 80, then the difference may not be too big. But if one spends 100 and another spends 2, what's worse is that the 100-spending guy makes almost all weapons by its own, while the 2-spending guy almost soely depends on imports, how could you convince yourself that "military spending impact little on the real war"?

Btw, do you understand Chinese? If not, how could you read the ancient books in your country and learn history accordingly?

 

[Aqsuperman]

well you do spent 10 times our budget on military but as i said you dont spent all of it on military units on the Southern border , China spent it all over the country garrisons , you dont mean the Southern units armed with QBZ-95 and Type 99 but the Northen and those facing Taiwan use Type 56 rifle and Type 59 tank right ? Attack maybe not a option for us but defend is quite a diffrent matter , economy-of-force is what we will put to play , history contain many example about this type of warfare , if the side that have more military spending always win , plenty of countries wont exist today . And about the domestic military infrastructure , i admit that we do lack behind but we do try to keep up in cetain area , mostly anti-ship missiles and anti-tank launcher , cant say they are big and gorgeous but its pretty effective and mobile .

Nope , i cant . Our ancestor used to have a variant of Chinese charaters to record story ( a bit like Japan Kanji or Korean Hanja but have plenty of modifications for familiarization ) Now we use Latin alphabet so we can only read history books that are written by it , before that.......well we need a damn translation verison :v

 

[Thao Nguyen]

new radar made in Vietnam, and Zu-23 upgrade

 

[GS Zhou]

well you do spent 10 times our budget on military but as i said you dont spent all of it on military units on the Southern border , China spent it all over the country garrisons , you dont mean the Southern units armed with QBZ-95 and Type 99 but the Northen and those facing Taiwan use Type 56 rifle and Type 59 tank right ? Attack maybe not a option for us but defend is quite a diffrent matter , economy-of-force is what we will put to play , history contain many example about this type of warfare , if the side that have more military spending always win , plenty of countries wont exist today . And about the domestic military infrastructure , i admit that we do lack behind but we do try to keep up in cetain area , mostly anti-ship missiles and anti-tank launcher , cant say they are big and gorgeous but its pretty effective and mobile .

Nope , i cant . Our ancestor used to have a variant of Chinese charaters to record story ( a bit like Japan Kanji or Korean Hanja but have plenty of modifications for familiarization ) Now we use Latin alphabet so we can only read history books that are written by it , before that.......well we need a damn translation verison :v

Thanks for your response.

I don't want to make math calculation here. But China's 2014 military spending is 216,371 million USD, while Vietnam's spending is 4,251 million USD. The ratio thereof is China 50 vs. Vietnam 1. Resource for the figures: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. You could look for other resources to support your 10:1 conclusion.

Lets assume China spends 10% of the spending on China-Vietnam front, the ratio is still 5:1. What's worse is:
- The military industry capability difference means China could spending its defence fee more efficiently
- Vietnam also needs to spend certain resouces on the borders with Thailand, Cambodia and Laos. I don't think they are 100% trustworthy partners to Vietnam that need no military defend at all.

So, I won't be surprised to see the ratio enlarged to 7:1, or even 10:1. This is apparently not enough if the target is to fully occupy Vietnam. But as what I said already, We have no interests on the land of Vietnam, our target is just to get back the islands and sea that belonging to us. So, we have full confidence to realize this small target in short to mid future.

Feel pressure? This is exactly what I mean by "the more you understand modern warefare, the more desperate you will be".

Post VN military pictures could not help your country; be part of the troop in war time also could not help. Untrained manpower is completely useless in a moder war! Agree?

Believe me, hard working is the only way. So, power off your computer and pick up your maths or physics book, this is the best you could do for your country.

BTW, thanks much to your response on language. That helps!

BTW one more time, you are the most rationale VN person so far I talked with on PDF. I like the conversation with you. Hope you too.

 

[Viet]

Thanks for your response.

I don't want to make math calculation here. But China's 2014 military spending is 216,371 million USD, while Vietnam's spending is 4,251 million USD. The ratio thereof is China 50 vs. Vietnam 1. Resource for the figures: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. You could look for other resources to support your 10:1 conclusion.

Lets assume China spends 10% of the spending on China-Vietnam front, the ratio is still 5:1. What's worse is:
- The military industry capability difference means China could spending its defence fee more efficiently
- Vietnam also needs to spend certain resouces on the borders with Thailand, Cambodia and Laos. I don't think they are 100% trustworthy partners to Vietnam that need no military defend at all.

So, I won't be surprised to see the ratio enlarged to 7:1, or even 10:1. This is apparently not enough if the target is to fully occupy Vietnam. But as what I said already, We have no interests on the land of Vietnam, our target is just to get back the islands and sea that belonging to us. So, we have full confidence to realize this small target in short to mid future.

Feel pressure? This is exactly what I mean by "the more you understand modern warefare, the more desperate you will be".

Post VN military pictures could not help your country; be part of the troop in war time also could not help. Untrained manpower is completely useless in a moder war! Agree?

Believe me, hard working is the only way. So, power off your computer and pick up your maths or physics book, this is the best you could do for your country.

BTW, thanks much to your response on language. That helps!

BTW one more time, you are the most rationale VN person so far I talked with on PDF. I like the conversation with you. Hope you too.

you like to compare China vs Vietnam and make the conclusion: you win.
how about comparing China to the US military complex? America wins?

 

[GS Zhou]

you like to compare China vs Vietnam and make the conclusion: you win.
how about comparing China to the US military complex? America wins?

Very good question.
It depends on where it occurs:
1. If the fight happens in east Asia, no matter Japan, Taiwan or the South China Sea, US loses;
2. if the fight happens in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, China loses;
3. If the fight eventually grows to be a nuclear war, the Earth loses.

 

[Viet]

Very good question.
It depends on where it occurs:
1. If the fight happens in east Asia, no matter Japan, Taiwan or the South China Sea, US loses;
2. if the fight happens in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, China loses;
3. If the fight eventually grows to be a nuclear war, the Earth loses.

you have humour in respect of point 1.

 

[Aqsuperman]

Well have it your way then , pressure is what we feel since the birth of our nation , glad to be helpful

SA-13 and Zsu-23-4 form the air-cover umbrella for mechanized formation while strategic stastic position will be defend by large caliber AAA , S-125 and S-300 , SA-17 and SA-22 havent show up so far yet.............

 

[GS Zhou]

you have humour in respect of point 1.

you lack the understanding on the Chinese military force. Good for you, otherwise it will be harmful to your sleep because of the deep fear and frustration surrounded.