Vietnam Defence Forum

[William Hung]

I'm not too sure either, but I did hear the rumor a few times and it could very well be true.

My explanation regarding the Pantsir is that they probably bought the Tor a few years earlier, but who knows what the truth is.

Can you start a Viet military thread at DF India? I will join also. I'm sick and tired of the chinese trolls here, they ruin everything and the mods don't care.

The MP forum is actually very good, but the Viet thread doesn't have enough activity, sometimes it goes for days without postings but it does have high caliber people there. I've been there for a few years, but I don't like their system of posting pics, need to have external storage.

Let me know what your name is at the DF India forum.

I've just created a new thread over there called "The Paracel-Spratlys News and Discussion threads." in the Indo-Pacific and East Asia section.

My username at DF India is "Extragalactic Janitor."

@Viet @BoQ77 @Soryu @Ayan81, etc. come join me.

I will still stay here but just to play around with the trolls lol.

 

[Viet]

I was surprised too, but I think its directed mainly against Philippines because don't forget that they also claim and have control of Viet islands so VN needs to defend its own claims with Philippines.

China claims 80% of the south china sea, and says this claim bases on "historical facts". well, we all know that is nothing more than lie. and weird: the chinese demand from vietnam to accept this "historical facts" aka lie as basis for the negotiation. brazen, isn´t it?

It is just overdue, that the VN government has decided to slap their face by sending a note to the court. well, the result is the hope sinks that we can settle the dispute by peaceful means.

I've just created a new thread over there called "The Paracel-Spratlys News and Discussion threads." in the Indo-Pacific and East Asia section.

My username at DF India is "Extragalactic Janitor."

@Viet @BoQ77 @Soryu @Ayan81, etc. come join me.

I will still stay here but just to play around with the trolls lol.

black, you have humour.

 

[Carlosa]

China claims 80% of the south china sea, and says this claim bases on "historical facts". well, we all know that is nothing more than lie. and weird: the chinese demand from vietnam to accept this "historical facts" aka lie as basis for the negotiation. brazen, isn´t it?

It is just overdue, that the VN government has decided to slap their face by sending a note to the court. well, the result is the hope sinks that we can settle the dispute by peaceful means..

You are right, well, time to accelerate the arm purchases.

 

[William Hung]

I was surprised too, but I think its directed mainly against Philippines because don't forget that they also claim and have control of Viet islands so VN needs to defend its own claims with Philippines.

China claims 80% of the south china sea, and says this claim bases on "historical facts". well, we all know that is nothing more than lie. and weird: the chinese demand from vietnam to accept this "historical facts" aka lie as basis for the negotiation. brazen, isn´t it?

It is just overdue, that the VN government has decided to slap their face by sending a note to the court. well, the result is the hope sinks that we can settle the dispute by peaceful means.

VN positions announcement is directly against China only. The US recent analysis report released a few days ago was also directly against China. Now I really believe that something is gona happen in the next few years when the tribunal issue it's ruling.

I will talk more about it later in that Paracel-Spratlys News and Discussion thread I've created.

The MP forum is actually very good, but the Viet thread doesn't have enough activity, sometimes it goes for days without postings but it does have high caliber people there. I've been there for a few years, but I don't like their system of posting pics, need to have external storage.

MP is too strict for me, cos sometime I like to troll and they will delete and issue warnings too easily. Plus I want to post parts of articles that are copyrighted (from subscription journals) and MP is too big to do that. As you know, there are some employees like from SIPRI, etc, who browse that forum.

 

[Carlosa]

VN positions announcement is directly against China only. The US recent analysis report released a few days ago was also directly against China. Now I really believe that something is gona happen in the next few years when the tribunal issue it's ruling.

I will talk more about it later in that Paracel-Spratlys News and Discussion thread I've created.
-------
MP is too strict for me, cos sometime I like to troll and they will delete and issue warnings too easily. Plus I want to post parts of articles that are copyrighted (from subscription journals) and MP is too big to do that. As you know, there are some employees like from SIPRI, etc, who browse that forum.

Damn, the situation will get hot indeed. I didn't know the details of VN's papers to the tribunal; china will surely get nasty.

I agree about MP, they are the opposite of pdf in that sense.
Hell, the people from SIPRI at the MP forum took no time at all to shut me down when I posted an article based on SIPRI that was actually a fake.

But again, there are high caliber people there that really know a lot about the Viet military and are often part of it, they are not going to talk too much, but they do give hints.

 

[Viet]

Damn, the situation will get hot indeed. I didn't know the details of VN's papers to the tribunal; china will surely get nasty.

basically VN sends this note to the Court at the Hague:

- First, Vietnam recognises the court has jurisdiction over the case submitted by the Philippines.

- Second, Vietnam asks the court to give “due regard” to Vietnam’s legal rights and interests in the Spratleys, Paracels, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

- Third, Vietnam rejects the Chinese nine-dash line demarcation.

 

[Carlosa]

China claims 80% of the south china sea, and says this claim bases on "historical facts". well, we all know that is nothing more than lie. and weird: the chinese demand from vietnam to accept this "historical facts" aka lie as basis for the negotiation. brazen, isn´t it?

It is just overdue, that the VN government has decided to slap their face by sending a note to the court. well, the result is the hope sinks that we can settle the dispute by peaceful means..

@Black Flag I had a theory for a while that US is actually no taking a position on the chinese claims and not doing anything other than talking because they are waiting for a favorable ruling from the tribunal and then having the legal backing of it, they will get very serious with china and officially reject the chinese claims and actually take action against them. I don't know, specially with wimp Obama, but I think its very possible. What do you guys think?

basically VN sends this note to the Court at the Hague:

- First, Vietnam recognises the court has jurisdiction over the case submitted by the Philippines.

- Second, Vietnam asks the court to give “due regard” to Vietnam’s legal rights and interests in the Spratleys, Paracels, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

- Third, Vietnam rejects the Chinese nine-dash line demarcation.

Well, that's a full spread, I hope VN had been busy ordering stuff.

 

[Viet]

VN positions announcement is directly against China only. The US recent analysis report released a few days ago was also directly against China. Now I really believe that something is gona happen in the next few years when the tribunal issue it's ruling.

exactly, the resolution H.Res.714 of the US Congress clearly says: only the international law (UNCLOS, etc..) prevails. Nothing else. Not invented "historical facts". Least lie from Chinese mouth.

Well, that's a full spread, I hope VN had been busy ordering stuff.

I don´t think the chinese will start a war, but if it happens we are ready.

i just asked bcz there are media reports that new government in India could offer brahmos to friendly countries including Vietnam.

we have showed interest of the missile since a year, but your governnent is hesitant. I guess india fears chinese retaliation.

 

[Carlosa]

exactly, the resolution H.Res.714 of the US Congress clearly says: only the international law (UNCLOS, etc..) prevails. Nothing else. Not invented "historical facts". Least lie from Chinese mouth.
I don´t think the chinese will start a war, but if it happens we are ready.
.

Probably not a war, but more oil rigs and maybe island blockades, fishing boats issues, etc.

 

[Viet]

Probably not a war, but more oil rigs and maybe island blockades, fishing boats issues, etc.

well, I am optimistic as we are better prepared this time.

the government has placed an urgent funding for 32 new coast guard vessels and 30,000 modern steel fishing vessels. they will join the fleet soon. in addition, we buy coast guard ships from india, japan and america. this flotilla will sabotage any attempts to place oil rigs in our waters, or to blockade our islands.

have I told you we can build oil rigs, too?

 

[William Hung]

@Black Flag I had a theory for a while that US is actually no taking a position on the chinese claims and not doing anything other than talking because they are waiting for a favorable ruling from the tribunal and then having the legal backing of it, they will get very serious with china and officially reject the chinese claims and actually take action against them. I don't know, specially with wimp Obama, but I think its very possible. What do you guys think?

Well, that's a full spread, I hope VN had been busy ordering stuff.

exactly, the resolution H.Res.714 of the US Congress clearly says: only the international law (UNCLOS, etc..) prevails. Nothing else. Not invented "historical facts". Least lie from Chinese mouth.

I don´t think the chinese will start a war, but if it happens we are ready.

Yes, VN's positional note basically supports the Philippines' case against China. It was expected actually, as VN had previously announced that it might raise a similar case of its own against China. And the Philippines said that they were willing to send their legal experts to VN to share their analysis.

What I find most surprising was how the US made their analysis public.

Before, we were discussing how if the Philippines were to win its arbitration case, it might trigger the US-Phil MDT if China ignore the ruling. We were saying how the US must either intervene and fulfil its MDT obligation or it can ignore its obligation because an intervention might escalate into something too big.

Well, the fact that the US have just released its analysis that fundamentally reject all of China's SCS claims show that, to me, they will intervene and not just to turn the blind eye. Because if the US were to leave some space so that they could later turn the blind eye, they wouldn't have released this analysis which condemns the Chinese claims in such a direct manner. It would just be too embarrassing to issue such a strong objection now, only to later on ignore the Philippines ruling.

So either the US is issuing a warning for China that they will intervene later on, or they are pressuring China to tone down its tough stance and start negotiating properly now. However, I don't think China will tone down their voice and compromise.

But China is feeling the pressure. I've already suggested earlier that their land reclamation was a sign of desperation. Now, the fact that they have just made a big effort to issue their very detailed positional note to defend their stance enforces my belief that they are desperate and under pressure.

Before they were just totally ignoring the Philippines case and made some small informal statements here and there. They were feeling confident that the tribunal cannot touch them. Now they have just release their own +90 points analysis to defend themselves. They ain't feeling confident anymore.

Anyway, you guys coming over to DF?

 

[Carlosa]

Yes, VN's positional note basically supports the Philippines' case against China. It was expected actually, as VN had previously announced that it might raise a similar case of its own against China. And the Philippines said that they were willing to send their legal experts to VN to share their analysis.

What I find most surprising was how the US made their analysis public.

Before, we were discussing how if the Philippines were to win its arbitration case, it might trigger the US-Phil MDT if China ignore the ruling. We were saying how the US must either intervene and fulfil its MDT obligation or it can ignore its obligation because an intervention might escalate into something too big.

Well, the fact that the US have just released its analysis that fundamentally reject all of China's SCS claims show that, to me, they will intervene and not just to turn the blind eye. Because if the US were to leave some space so that they could later turn the blind eye, they wouldn't have released this analysis which condemns the Chinese claims in such a direct manner. It would just be too embarrassing to issue such a strong objection now, only to later on ignore the Philippines ruling.

So either the US is issuing a warning for China that they will intervene later on, or they are pressuring China to tone down its tough stance and start negotiating properly now. However, I don't think China will tone down their voice and compromise.

But China is feeling the pressure. I've already suggested earlier that their land reclamation was a sign of desperation. Now, the fact that they have just made a big effort to issue their very detailed positional note to defend their stance enforces my belief that they are desperate and under pressure.

Before they were just totally ignoring the Philippines case and made some small informal statements here and there. They were feeling confident that the tribunal cannot touch them. Now they have just release their own +90 points analysis to defend themselves. They ain't feeling confident anymore.

Anyway, you guys coming over to DF?

I think you are right on both counts, on the US position and the fact that China will not tone down their voice and compromise and that they are getting desperate.

I had been feeling that about the US and the picture is becoming clear. I was reading yesterday that they expect now that the tribunal final rulings will come before the end of 2015, so just 1 more year to wait.

I'll get to the indian forum later tonight.

well, I am optimistic as we are better prepared this time.

the government has placed an urgent funding for 32 new coast guard vessels and 30,000 modern steel fishing vessels. they will join the fleet soon. in addition, we buy coast guard ships from india, japan and america. this flotilla will sabotage any attempts to place oil rigs in our waters, or to blockade our islands.

have I told you we can build oil rigs, too?

I had a feeling that VN will need all those ships.

Yes, I know about the VN made oil rigs, have files on them.

Actually, the chinese made oil rigs are made under US license, but the chinese usually omit to mention that part.

 

[Viet]

I had a feeling that VN will need all those ships.

Yes, I know about the VN made oil rigs, have files on them.

Actually, the chinese made oil rigs are made under US license, but the chinese usually omit to mention that part.

yes, we need more advanced warships, too. urgent. bro, you should tell your contact at the navy, that they should begin to look what Spain offers.

LOL but yes, actually we build oil rigs, with technologies based on Friede & Goldman, that also provided the design for the Chinese HD 981 oil rig. so some 18,000 tonnage, capable of operating at a depth of 120 meters, drill at a depth of 9,000 meters.
Vietnam to build big oil rigs - News VietNamNet

this one is from PetroVietnam is cool:

Yes, VN's positional note basically supports the Philippines' case against China. It was expected actually, as VN had previously announced that it might raise a similar case of its own against China. And the Philippines said that they were willing to send their legal experts to VN to share their analysis.

What I find most surprising was how the US made their analysis public.

Before, we were discussing how if the Philippines were to win its arbitration case, it might trigger the US-Phil MDT if China ignore the ruling. We were saying how the US must either intervene and fulfil its MDT obligation or it can ignore its obligation because an intervention might escalate into something too big.

Well, the fact that the US have just released its analysis that fundamentally reject all of China's SCS claims show that, to me, they will intervene and not just to turn the blind eye. Because if the US were to leave some space so that they could later turn the blind eye, they wouldn't have released this analysis which condemns the Chinese claims in such a direct manner. It would just be too embarrassing to issue such a strong objection now, only to later on ignore the Philippines ruling.

So either the US is issuing a warning for China that they will intervene later on, or they are pressuring China to tone down its tough stance and start negotiating properly now. However, I don't think China will tone down their voice and compromise.

But China is feeling the pressure. I've already suggested earlier that their land reclamation was a sign of desperation. Now, the fact that they have just made a big effort to issue their very detailed positional note to defend their stance enforces my belief that they are desperate and under pressure.

Before they were just totally ignoring the Philippines case and made some small informal statements here and there. They were feeling confident that the tribunal cannot touch them. Now they have just release their own +90 points analysis to defend themselves. They ain't feeling confident anymore.

Anyway, you guys coming over to DF?

good analyse!

I want to add that the likelyhood is VERY high, before sending the note to the court at the Huage, the VN government has talked to the great powers in the region and the world as America, Russia, Japan and India, to secure their support. Not to mention to involve other nations as S Korea and Philippines. the step is carefully considered and planned.

 

[BoQ77]

Arrival of the new Su-30MK2s: 2 already delivered at end of november, the next 2 end of december.

Báo Nga: Việt Nam nhận thêm 2 'Hổ mang chúa' Su-30MK2 - DVO - Báo Đất Việt
View attachment 164429

 

[Viet]

Military Capabilities
Vietnam to publish new White Paper, focus on military modernisation
Jon Grevatt, Bangkok - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
03 December 2014


Vietnam will publish a new Defence White Paper before the end of 2014, Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh announced on 4 December. The White Paper will be the first that the country has published since 2009.

In comments to state-run news service VietNamNet, Thanh said the White Paper will be focused on shaping Vietnam's continuing military modernisation in order to protect and secure national sovereignty.

"We are preparing to release the White Paper on defence this year, in the way of peace, independence, autonomy, and transparency in military building," said Thanh. "We build the army to only defend the country.

Industry
Vietnam to invest in developing local industry
Jon Grevatt, Bangkok - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
08 December 2014


Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung has pledged to invest in developing the country's defence industrial base in a bid to strengthen the Vietnamese military and "especially the navy and air force".

In comments published by the official Vietnam News Agency on 6 December, Dung highlighted the government's plans to develop naval shipbuilder Ba Son Shipyard - constructor of the Vietnam People's Navy's (VPN's) Tarantul V (Project 1241.8)-class guided-missile corvettes - as an indicator of the government's commitment to invest.

State-owned Ba Son Shipyard is currently based in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam's largest city, but is being relocated to Ba Ria-Vung province, about 90 km southeast, in order to expand its naval shipbuilding facilities and be closer to naval facilities in that region.



Interesting: Ba Son Shipyard capacity will be enlarged and expanded. I bet the next generations of capital warships such as sigma class and others will be built here.

locations of vietnam shipyards: