Vietnam builds military muscle to face China

[rott]

China communist party is full of war mongers and bullies. They are becoming threat to East asia and Indian ocean region

If they keep provoking and occupying south china sea then time is not far once all countries will unite against them.

China should remember that with great power comes great responsibility. Learn to listen to your small neighbors & stop bullying smaller countries in region

Another arrogant and ignorant Indian.

 

[Place Of Space]

There is propaganda of China.

1945 when Vietnam regained independence, Ho Chi Ming is focued on Vietnam. He has released Indo China communist party. In Vietnam war Vietnamese has fought counter France new colonial army in both Laos and Cambodia to help them regain independence same to Vietnam.

After 1975, Vietnam tried get neutral position in Sino-Soviets split. Both Laos and Cambodia could have good relation with China in same way what Vietnam does.

Regretly, China has his own strategy what China signed with USA in Shanghai in 1972, to counter Soviet Union so called "hegemony" in Shanghai statement.

China helped Pol Pot with weapon and military advisers to attack Vietnam. In fact there is true intention of China to set up hegemony of China on Indochina pennisulla and south East Asia. There is reason for Sino-Vietnam war and tension here in SCS.

You forget Ho Chi Ming already died for years, in 1979, it's ambitious Le Duan lead the country and started to expand border. At the same time, one of top Vietnamese leaders escaped to Beijing because he opposed Le Duan's action.
It's obvious Thailand, USA, and China all more or less support Pol Pot. Regardless Cambodia, did Laos has "Pol Pot"? What your excuses to invade Laos?

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Thu, 17 Dec 2015 00:00 GMT
Author: Reuters

By Greg Torode

XUAN MAI, Vietnam, Dec 17 (Reuters) - Vietnam's military is steeling itself for conflict with China as it accelerates a decade-long modernisation drive, Hanoi's biggest arms buildup since the height of the Vietnam War.

The ruling Communist Party's goal is to deter its giant northern neighbour as tensions rise over the disputed South China Sea, and if that fails, to be able to defend itself on all fronts, senior officers and people close to them told Reuters.

Vietnam's strategy has moved beyond contingency planning. Key units have been placed on "high combat readiness" - an alert posture to fend off a sudden attack - including its elite Division 308, which guards the mountainous north.

The two countries fought a bloody border war in 1979. The likely flashpoint this time is in the South China Sea, where they have rival claims in the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos.

"We don't want to have a conflict with China and we must put faith in our policy of diplomacy," one senior Vietnamese government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told Reuters. "But we know we must be ready for the worst."

Most significantly, Hanoi is creating a naval deterrent largely from scratch with the purchase of six advanced Kilo-class submarines from Russia.

In recent months, the first of those submarines have started patrolling the South China Sea, Vietnamese and foreign military officials said, the first confirmation the vessels have been in the strategic waterway.

DIVISION 308

Militarily, the tensions are palpable northwest of Hanoi at the headquarters of Division 308, Vietnam's most elite military unit, where senior army officers talk repeatedly about "high combat readiness".

The phrase is on billboards beneath images of missiles and portraits of Vietnam's late revolutionary founder, Ho Chi Minh, and its legendary military hero, General Vo Nguyen Giap.

Perched between Vietnam's craggy northern mountains and the ancient rice paddies of the Red River Delta, 308 is Vietnam's oldest division and still effectively guards the northern approaches to Hanoi.

Reflecting deep-set official sensibilities towards offending Beijing, one senior officer, Colonel Le Van Hai, said he could not talk about China. But Vietnam was ready to repel any foreign force, he told Reuters during a rare visit by a foreign reporter.

"Combat readiness is the top priority of the division, of the Ministry of Defence and the country. We can deal with any sudden or unexpected situation ... We are ready," he said.

"High combat readiness", along with references to the "new situation", increasingly feature in lectures by senior officers during visits to military bases and in publications of the People's Army of Vietnam. The phrases also surface in talks with foreign military delegations, diplomats said.

"When Vietnam refers to the 'new situation', they are using coded language to refer to the rising likelihood of an armed confrontation or clash with China, particularly in the South China Sea," said Carl Thayer, a professor at Australia's Defence Force Academy in Canberra who has studied Vietnam's military since the late 1960s.

While ramping up combat readiness, Hanoi's once-reclusive generals are reaching out to a broad range of strategic partners. Russia and India are the main source of advanced weapons, training and intelligence cooperation. Hanoi is also building ties with the United States and its Japanese, Australian and Filipino allies, as well as Europe and Israel.

The outreach covers weapons purchases, ship visits and intelligence sharing but will have its limits. Hanoi shuns formal military alliances under a staunchly independent foreign policy.

Vietnam is seeking more Russian jet fighter-bombers and is in talks with European and U.S. arms manufacturers to buy fighter and maritime patrol planes and unarmed surveillance drones, sources have told Reuters. It has also recently upgraded and expanded air defences, including obtaining early warning surveillance radars from Israel and advanced S-300 surface-to-air missile batteries from Russia.

Indeed, increases in Vietnam's military spending have outstripped its South East Asian neighbours over the last decade, according to estimates by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).

"They are not doing this for national day parades ... they are building real military capabilities," said Tim Huxley, a regional security expert at the International Institute of Strategic Studies in Singapore.

OIL RIG FLASHPOINT

While communist parties rule both Vietnam and China and share political bonds, the two countries have a history marked by armed conflict and long periods of lingering mistrust.

Fresh academic research has revealed how the Sino-Vietnamese war in 1979 was more intense than is widely known, rumbling on into the mid-1980s. The two sides then clashed at sea in 1988 when China occupied its first holdings in the Spratly archipelago of the South China Sea - a defeat still acutely felt in Hanoi.

China also took full control of another South China Sea island chain, the Paracels, after a naval showdown with then South Vietnam in 1974. Hanoi still protests China's occupation.

More recently, China's placement of an oil rig in disputed waters for 10 weeks in the middle of last year sparked anti-Chinese riots across Vietnam.

The rig's placement on Vietnam's continental shelf 80 nautical miles from its coast was a game-changer, officials in Hanoi privately said, hardening suspicions about Chinese President Xi Jinping among political and military leaders.

Hanoi dispatched dozens of Vietnamese civilian vessels to confront the 70 coastguard and naval warships China sent to protect the oil rig in mid-2014.

"It was a reminder to all of us just how dangerous the South China Sea has become," said one retired U.S. naval officer.

For its part, China's military strategists have long been frustrated at the two dozen military outposts that Hanoi has fortified across the Spratlys since losing the Paracels in 1974, Chinese analysts say. China is building three air strips on man-made islands it is building on reefs in the Spratlys that it took from Vietnamese forces in 1988.

A statement to Reuters from China's Defence Ministry said the two militaries had close, friendly relations and China was willing to work hard with Vietnam for regional peace.

"Both sides have frank exchanges of view on the South China Sea ... both sides should look for a basic, lasting solution both sides can accept," the statement said.

China's historic claim to most of the South China Sea, expressed on maps as a nine-dash line, overlaps the exclusive economic zones of Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei. Taiwan also has claims in the area.

Some $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes through the waterway every year, including most of the oil imported by China, Japan and South Korea.

'PSYCHOLOGICAL UNCERTAINTY'

The importance to China of protecting its submarine base on Hainan Island - the projected home of its future nuclear armed submarine fleet - could be another flashpoint. Beijing also has jet fighters and many of its best warships stationed around Hainan Island. This South Sea Fleet is close to Vietnam's northern coast and its vital deep water access channels to the South China Sea and beyond.

Vietnamese generals make clear to foreign visitors they know their limitations. Two decades of double-digit increases in defence budgets have given China a vastly larger and better equipped navy, air force and army.

Foreign military envoys say they struggle to gauge Vietnam's actual capabilities and how well they are integrating complex new weapons. They are given little access beyond Hanoi's gilded staterooms.

Vietnamese military strategists talk of creating a "minimal credible deterrent" - raising the costs of any Chinese move against Vietnam, whether it is a naval confrontation or an attack across the 1,400-km (875-mile) northern land border.

If conflict did break out, Hanoi could target Chinese-flagged merchant container and oil ships in the South China Sea, said Thayer, who said he was told this by Vietnamese strategists.

The aim would be not to defeat China's superior forces but "to inflict sufficient damage and psychological uncertainty to cause Lloyd's insurance rates to skyrocket and for foreign investors to panic", Thayer said in a paper presented to a Singapore conference last month.

Vietnam's foreign ministry did not respond to requests for comment on this story.


(Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard in Beijing and Ho Binh Minh and My Pham in Hanoi.; Editing by Dean Yates and Bill Tarrant.)


INSIGHT-Vietnam builds military muscle to face China

lol, China's cough will be enough to make Vietnam surrender. Its like comparing Cyprus with USA.

 

[Rechoice]

You forget Ho Chi Ming already died for years, in 1979, it's ambitious Le Duan lead the country and started to expand border. At the same time, one of top Vietnamese leaders escaped to Beijing because he opposed Le Duan's action.
It's obvious Thailand, USA, and China all more or less support Pol Pot. Regardless Cambodia, did Laos has "Pol Pot"? What your excuses to invade Laos?

again, there is propaganda of China.

After 1975 Le Duan visited China. Vietnam tried take neutral in SoViet-China conflick. He met Dang Xiaoping. Both agreed to strengtern the Friendship relation Vietnam-China for future. But China has her intention. Deng supported Khmer Rouge to make troubles to Vietnam, he would like to change Vietnam to be puppet of China to counter Soviet Union and set up China hegemony on region.

We dont care about such Vietjian in Sino Vietnam war. Same what Chinese Hanjian did in the past when Japan Emperial is controlled North East China.

lol, China's cough will be enough to make Vietnam surrender. Its like comparing Cyprus with USA.

I can say same thing to you, with one billion human, India could do it with you too.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

again, there is propaganda of China.

After 1975 Le Duan visited China. Vietnam tried take neutral in SoViet-China conflick. He met Dang Xiaoping. Both agreed to strengtern the Friendship relation Vietnam-China for future. But China has her intention. Deng supported Khmer Rouge to make troubles to Vietnam, he would like to change Vietnam to be puppet of China to counter Soviet Union and set up China hegemony on region.

We dont care about such Vietjian in Sino Vietnam war. Same what Chinese Hanjian did in the past when Japan Emperial is controlled North East China.



I can say same thing to you, with one billion human, India could do it with you too.

Thing is, they've tried and tried but failed and failed. Its like a single lion vs a bunch of Monkeys.

 

[Place Of Space]

again, there is propaganda of China.

After 1975 Le Duan visited China. Vietnam tried take neutral in SoViet-China conflick. He met Dang Xiaoping. Both agreed to strengtern the Friendship relation Vietnam-China for future. But China has her intention. Deng supported Khmer Rouge to make troubles to Vietnam, he would like to change Vietnam to be puppet of China to counter Soviet Union and set up China hegemony on region.

We dont care about such Vietjian in Sino Vietnam war. Same what Chinese Hanjian did in the past when Japan Emperial is controlled North East China.



I can say same thing to you, with one billion human, India could do it with you too.

Do you ever understand "take neutral"? Take neutral is not an easy thing, it's not that you want or vow to take neutral, than all will agree you to take neutral. If so easy, nowadays, Syria, Ukraine, Iraq all will declare they take neutral. No, man, international politics seems not to run this way.

"Deng supported Khmer Rouge to make troubles to Vietnam, he would like to change Vietnam to be puppet of China"
Vietnam already was ally of China during 1950's-1970's, why to change Vietnam to be again puppet of China? Don't know what are you talking about.

Those are Vietjian, lol, they just opposed Le Duan. Like those hundred of thousand of Vietnamese who opposed Ho Chi Ming and escaped to America.

 

[Aepsilons]

Do you ever understand "take neutral"? Take neutral is not an easy thing, it's not that you want or vow to take neutral, than all will agree you to take neutral. If so easy, nowadays, Syria, Ukraine, Iraq all will declare they take neutral. No, man, international politics seems not to run this way.

"Deng supported Khmer Rouge to make troubles to Vietnam, he would like to change Vietnam to be puppet of China"
Vietnam already was ally of China during 1950's-1970's, why to change Vietnam to be again puppet of China? Don't know what are you talking about.

Those are Vietjian, lol, they just opposed Le Duan. Like those hundred of thousand of Vietnamese who opposed Ho Chi Ming and escaped to America.

Calm down Taiwanese buddy, calm down.

 

[Rechoice]

Do you ever understand "take neutral"? Take neutral is not an easy thing, it's not that you want or vow to take neutral, than all will agree you to take neutral. If so easy, nowadays, Syria, Ukraine, Iraq all will declare they take neutral. No, man, international politics seems not to run this way.

"Deng supported Khmer Rouge to make troubles to Vietnam, he would like to change Vietnam to be puppet of China"
Vietnam already was ally of China during 1950's-1970's, why to change Vietnam to be again puppet of China? Don't know what are you talking about.

Those are Vietjian, lol, they just opposed Le Duan. Like those hundred of thousand of Vietnamese who opposed Ho Chi Ming and escaped to America.

You are Tawanese, you cant understand what I have said about such communist camrads.

@Nihonjin1051. Thanks you for information.

 

[Place Of Space]

You are Tawanese, you cant understand what I hvave said.

@Nihonjin1051. Thanks you for information.

Holy shit. You get information from the Japanese!
Great Han saying, 站不更名，坐不改姓。

 

[oproh]

In the Philippines, there are two groups of Chinese groups, i suppose. The pure blooded Inchik (Chinese) who marry only Chinese and presere their family names and their religion. They maintain this through the generations even go as far as going back to Fujian or Canton (Guangdong) to bring back a wife back. The other group are the mixed Chinese-Filipino (Malay-Chinese mix), who tho are not pure blooded anymore, still hold some kind of allegiance to their Chinese lineage. It is almost a sense of pride for these Chinese mestizos to have Chinese 'blood'. Its actually very interesting to see this when i was there.



I think that is just part of the innate nature of Chinese people, my friend. The sense of Han superiority and Han preservation. Even in Japan; there are Han Chinese who live in Japan , even have Japanese citizenship, and have even adopted Japanese names, still, they will clarify that they are Han Chinese by Race.

That's a derogatory and racial slur against Chinese here in the Philippines, only poorly educated Filipinos would insist on using the term. You deserve a negative rating!

@jhungary you defended our vietnamese brothers by giving tons of negative ratings, do the same for our Chinese-Filipino brothers

 

[70U63]

 

[VALKRYIE]

I can find tons of articles showing that China was the clear winner of that war. Many US strategists believed that China tricked Vietnam into that war and used that war to achieve several geo political goals of Dengxiaoping. Deng wanted to have friendly relationship with the west and ASEAN countries which could enable Chinese products to enter their huge market and attract their investments, to do so China chose to spank Vietnam to humiliate USSR by showing that USSR can't even defend its treaty allies.. In the two weeks war China achieved all the long term hidden goals, US and Asean countries opened their market and investment started to pour in China. China successfully isolated Vietnam in its neighborhood and wreak havoc to North Vietnam and completely paralysed its economy, USSR just stood by and didn't do anything. Deng's short and bloody war enabled China to embark 3 decades long break neck growth development and directly resulted in today's prosperity and Vietnam suffered decades long economic stagnation and political isolation.

Gerald Segal, in his 1985 book Defending China, concluded that China's 1979 war against Vietnam was a complete failure: "China failed to force a Vietnamese withdrawal from [Cambodia], failed to end border clashes, failed to cast doubt on the strength of the Soviet power, failed to dispel the image of China as a paper tiger, and failed to draw the United States into an anti-Soviet coalition."

China lost the war because it fail its primary objective which was to force Vietnam out of Cambodia control by Khmer Rouge backed by China who kill innocent Cambodian, Chinese and Vietnamese through genocide.

Only a few villages were captured and damaged PLA wasn't even close to the capital of Hanoi.

The defeat of the 1979 war led China toward the path of major econonic reform and accepting US hegemony through investment and trade.

It must be embrassing for PLA to lose against militias which consisted of women and children while the main battlion was in Cambodia. Even the Chinese president fear Vietnam strength after the defeat of the Americans.

On February 27, 1979, President, Deng told American journalists in Beijing that “Vietnam claims itself as the third military superpower in the world."

 

[Viet]

The sino vietnam war caused an economic desaster to vietnam, throwing us back in development for 20 years. In light of this, China won, I admit. The chinese poster beijingwalker is right: it was a typical chinese method keeping us weak and poor.

 

[Jlaw]

I think it is neither the fault of China nor Vietnam for the situation that you have described. I think the faults belong to the pro-mainland Chinese diaspora for giving such a bad reputations to the locals, be it in Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc. These pro-mainland Chinese diaspora are known to be a selfish, greedy group of immigrants being ungrateful and disloyal to their host country. Thus, when the locals like the Vietnamese see how these pro-mainland Chinese diaspora act this kind of way when the host country had given them free space for a peaceful co-existence with the locals, the country lose faith and trust in having a peaceful co-existence with mainland China too. Because when they look at the pro-mainland Chinese diaspora, all they see is greed, selfishness, disloyalty to the host country, ungratefulness, etc. I think this is quite common to some other ASEAN countries too, not just Vietnam. The worst case was Pol Pot, who basically destroyed his host country, even killed his fellow ethnic too, so crazy.

In summary, I blame the situation on the pro-mainland Chinese diaspora.

BS. Real life Vietnamese are more pro China than online Viets. If you're referring to the Vietnam war why would Chinese living in Vietnam fight for Vietnam when they were being discriminated by the government. their properties were seized and were moved to the countryside to farm?

Hmm, are you Taiwanese? You sound like a Kuomintang supporter right now.

KMT are short sighted, coward and loser. You are probably right.

 

[rott]

@

That's a derogatory and racial slur against Chinese here in the Philippines, only poorly educated Filipinos would insist on using the term. You deserve a negative rating!

@jhungary you defended our vietnamese brothers by giving tons of negative ratings, do the same for our Chinese-Filipino brothers

@Chinese-Dragon