Vietnam builds military muscle to face China

[Jlaw]

Are you nuts? Where are the mods when we need them? All sleep well apparently.

But seriously speaking, I don't expect a clash, maybe some western media expect a war, because they have something to write and weapon dealers profit from arms sell. There are enough wars in the world. We don't need more wars. And war for what? We both can agree on you do what they like, while we do what we see necessary. Deal? Your motherland China can claim the entire sea is yours or the moon or a black hole one billion light year away. Nobody takes you seriously. Lastly but you shouldn't make a mistake by assuming you are immortal.

Vietnam have been asking for US weapons for ages but so far they got two crummy boats. But fortunately for you guys, VCP lots are a lot smarter than the Viets here.

 

[Viet]

Vietnam have been asking for US weapons for ages but so far they got two crummy boats. But fortunately for you guys, VCP lots are a lot smarter than the Viets here.

US weapons are very expensive. Don't expect many to come to our hands.

Sure there are smart guys in the party. But you should know There are various factions within VCP. and at the moment the pro western group seems having the upper hand. Partly thanks to your oil rig provocation. A very stupid move. Brainless. The article mentions the 308 division that guards the way to Hanoi, but not telling the government recently replaced two top commanders of the first and second armies that are responsible for the defense of the capital.

You see the army considers your threat very serious.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

US weapons are very expensive. Don't expect many to come to our hands.

Sure there are smart guys in the party. But you should know There are various factions within VCP. and at the moment the pro western group seems having the upper hand. Partly thanks to your oil rig provocation. A very stupid move. Brainless. The article mentions the 308 division that guards the way to Hanoi, but not telling the government recently replaced two top commanders of the first and second armies that are responsible for the defense of the capital.

You see the army considers your threat very serious.

An Arleigh Burke class DDG would cost 2 billion for the US government to purchase per unit, and even more expensive for their allies.

It is 100% certain that they will not give you for free.

 

[Aepsilons]

An Arleigh Burke class DDG would cost 2 billion for the US government to purchase per unit, and even more expensive for their allies.

It is 100% certain that they will not give you for free.

But I doubt Vietnam will need an offensive navy to fight. Their off shore batteries are more than enough to deter even the South Sea Fleet of the PLAN to come too close near the Gulf of Tonkin or to close the Gulf of Siam. It would be China doing the offensive in such a hypothetical war. And the Viets are great defense fighters. Tho I believe Vietnam would suffer terribly in a war with Greater China, the victory would be Pyrrhic for the PLA and the PLAN. And would hurt the Asian region, even China's perception abroad as a peaceful power.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

But I doubt Vietnam will need an offensive navy to fight. Their off shore batteries are more than enough to deter even the South Sea Fleet of the PLAN to come too close near the Gulf of Tonkin or to close the Gulf of Siam. It would be China doing the offensive in such a hypothetical war. And the Viets are great defense fighters. Tho I believe Vietnam would suffer terribly in a war with Greater China, the victory would be Pyrrhic for the PLA and the PLAN. And would hurt the Asian region, even China's perception abroad as a peaceful power.

The Aegis is more defensive than offensive.

Without the aircraft carriers with the fixed-wing aircrafts and the nuclear subs, you can never really consider yourself as an offensive navy.

 

[Rechoice]

Keep your propaganda to yourself and to your country.

China has changed "paper tiger" to be your master in cold war. every people around in the world knows it. It is no needed to make propaganda about china's policy in the past.

Vietnam may have a history of 2000 years of which 1000 plus years were under the Chinese rule and no one knows what the future 1000 years hold for Vietnam.

Vietnam will be stronger in 1,000 year ahead in future than 1,000 year of past.

 

[70U63]

It is very strange that small country (not like NK) still want to behave in this way when in the past, they have been used as battle ground for ideology by two superpowers, and also a test for carpet bombing. Some of their scholars instead of encoutage of building a healthy relationship with their neighbors, they want to show some force to prove they are strong (for whatever purpose). What the fxxk is wrong with this people.

 

[Aepsilons]

The Aegis is more defensive than offensive.

Without the aircraft carriers with the fixed-wing aircrafts and the nuclear subs, you can never really consider yourself as an offensive navy.

The point of the matter, which i'm tying to stress, is that Vietnam's naval doctrine is purely defensive. Their land based batteries of anti ship missiles will be in itself a factor to prevent the PLAN from mobilizing to deep into the coast of Viet Nam. A ground offensive by the PLA would be met head on by the PAV. In their northern provinces, is the 1st and 2nd army region, each region is home to about 100,000. So the 1st and 2nd army region is home to the 1st and 2nd armies of the PAV, which combined is 200,000. They also have another 150,000 composed of the Border Command Guard. Combined in the northern vicinity they have 350,000 ready to respond to an invasion by the PLA.

Mind you the PAV have 3 other additional armies. That's another additional 300,000.

China would crush Vietnam, sure, but is China prepared to bleed the river red in order to defeat Viet Nam?We are looking at casualties in the 1-2 million range.

I do not think so. China and Vietnam would be affected. In fact the entire region would be affected.

 

[William Hung]

It is very strange that small country (not like NK) still want to behave in this way when in the past, they have been used as battle ground for ideology by two superpowers, and also a test for carpet bombing. Some of their scholars instead of encoutage of building a healthy relationship with their neighbors, they want to show some force to prove they are strong (for whatever purpose). What the fxxk is wrong with this people.

I think it is neither the fault of China nor Vietnam for the situation that you have described. I think the faults belong to the pro-mainland Chinese diaspora for giving such a bad reputations to the locals, be it in Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc. These pro-mainland Chinese diaspora are known to be a selfish, greedy group of immigrants being ungrateful and disloyal to their host country. Thus, when the locals like the Vietnamese see how these pro-mainland Chinese diaspora act this kind of way when the host country had given them free space for a peaceful co-existence with the locals, the country lose faith and trust in having a peaceful co-existence with mainland China too. Because when they look at the pro-mainland Chinese diaspora, all they see is greed, selfishness, disloyalty to the host country, ungratefulness, etc. I think this is quite common to some other ASEAN countries too, not just Vietnam. The worst case was Pol Pot, who basically destroyed his host country, even killed his fellow ethnic too, so crazy.

In summary, I blame the situation on the pro-mainland Chinese diaspora.

 

[Aepsilons]

Because when they look at the pro-mainland Chinese diaspora, all they see is greed, selfishness, disloyalty to the host country, ungratefulness, etc. I think this is quite common to some other ASEAN countries too, not just Vietnam. The worst case was Pol Pot, who basically destroyed his host country, even killed his fellow ethnic too.

In summary, I blame the situation on the pro-mainland Chinese diaspora.

Is this perception of Chinese Huaren universal in Southeast Asia? I had thought the Chinese in ASEAN assimilated even took up the names of the host country. For example the Chinese in Thailand who readily took up Thai names. Even the Chinese in Malaysia who adopted Islamic names.

 

[Rechoice]

It is very strange that small country (not like NK) still want to behave in this way when in the past, they have been used as battle ground for ideology by two superpowers, and also a test for carpet bombing. Some of their scholars instead of encoutage of building a healthy relationship with their neighbors, they want to show some force to prove they are strong (for whatever purpose). What the fxxk is wrong with this people.

there is aggression of China in Vietnam Sea, do you know that ?

 

[applesauce]

The point of the matter, which i'm tying to stress, is that Vietnam's naval doctrine is purely defensive. Their land based batteries of anti ship missiles will be in itself a factor to prevent the PLAN from mobilizing to deep into the coast of Viet Nam. A ground offensive by the PLA would be met head on by the PAV. In their northern provinces, is the 1st and 2nd army region, each region is home to about 100,000. So the 1st and 2nd army region is home to the 1st and 2nd armies of the PAV, which combined is 200,000. They also have another 150,000 composed of the Border Command Guard. Combined in the northern vicinity they have 350,000 ready to respond to an invasion by the PLA.

Mind you the PAV have 3 other additional armies. That's another additional 300,000.

a numbers game? thats a game china won't lose

China would crush Vietnam, sure, but is China prepared to bleed the river red in order to defeat Viet Nam?We are looking at casualties in the 1-2 million range.

I do not think so. China and Vietnam would be affected. In fact the entire region would be affected.

i highly doubt this, iraq had 375,000 man army, and how many casualties did the us take wrecking them? heck even in the 70s when vietnam was supported by the soviet union and china the US has less than 60,000 KIAs.

now im not saying that the PLA is as strong as the US ARMY/Marines, but 33.33 times worst, especially considering vietnam had active support(as in actual pilots and men fighting) of a superpower and a major regional power durng the vietnam war? i have a seriously problem with that.

Is this perception of Chinese Huaren universal in Southeast Asia? I had thought the Chinese in ASEAN assimilated even took up the names of the host country. For example the Chinese in Thailand who readily took up Thai names. Even the Chinese in Malaysia who adopted Islamic names.

chinese are pretty much apolitical. and his thought obviously do not a majority opinion make.

 

[William Hung]

Is this perception of Chinese Huaren universal in Southeast Asia? I had thought the Chinese in ASEAN assimilated even took up the names of the host country. For example the Chinese in Thailand who readily took up Thai names. Even the Chinese in Malaysia who adopted Islamic names.

I can’t speak for the whole of ASEAN. In Vietnam, the perception is generally like that. There are Hua that assimilate, and there are a lot more that don’t, many speak Vietnamese with a heavy accent eventhough they were born in VN.

For Thailand and Philippines, I don’t consider them to have truly assimilated. A few really do, but I think most take on a new identity (e.g. Tsinoy) and identify them as being superior to the locals, so I would not consider that as being assimilated to the local society.

 

[Aepsilons]

a numbers game? thats a game china won't lose

I do not disagree with you that China has the numerical superiority. However, in event of a full blown war; especially one in one's own backdoor? The body bags coming back to the country will have an impact in public perception and support of the war. That was the very reason why public perception plummeted during the Vietnam War when images of body bags were distributed by American media / journalists.

i highly doubt this, iraq had 375,000 man army, and how many casualties did the us take wrecking them? heck even in the 70s when vietnam was supported by the soviet union and china the US has less than 60,000 KIAs.

now im not saying that the PLA is as strong as the US ARMY/Marines, but 33.33 times worst, especially considering vietnam had active support(as in actual pilots and men fighting) of a superpower and a major regional power durng the vietnam war? i have a seriously problem with that.

Iraq is not Vietnam and America is not China. It is unwise to compare Viet Nam to Iraq in that Viet Nam, unlike Iraq, was able to resist four super powers (Japan, France, America, China) in a span of 30 years back to back. The Viets are no push overs, and are ferocious opponents.

Don't underestimate these people.

 

[William Hung]

chinese are pretty much apolitical. and his thought obviously do not a majority opinion make.

During the 60-70s, a lot of pro-mainland Chinese diaspora in VN became spies for the CCP. Also, you trying to tell me Pol Pot and his crony was apolitical? The communist Chinese diaspora in Indonesia before the purge was apolitical? You must be joking.

But being political or apolitical was not the point. When I said pro-mainland, I mean Chinese who still show affinity towards mainland China and have no loyalty or allegience towards their host country. The point was that these pro-mainland Chinese diaspora have given a very bad image of “China” to the locals, by being extremely greedy, selfish, ungrateful, etc.