***** USA This is the Wrong Time to Physically Confront China Now *****

[huzihaidao12]

If that was the criteria for allowing a state to encroach on other state's space, we should pretty much inherit the world along with the other developed countries for 70 years of doing that through the IMF and World Bank.

Like Haiti, or Mexico? Or cut blood vessels - Latin America? Or Africa, it has been called "desperate" continent - before the Chinese investment into Africa.Every developing country know what is the IMF and World Bank, sure.

Concede to China's interests? And let them swallow up everything they can? Thanks for the suggestion. But we're not that stupid.

China doesn't help with any international issues. China doesn't do anything unless it sees financial gain in it. To pretend like they are a major player in the international arena outside their immediate financial interests is a fallacy that only the Chinese and a couple of their followers believe. Everyone else can see China for what it really is.

"We in the west" may not be able to do it alone but unfortunately, it is our burden to carry. Counting on China to help with anything that doesn't benefit China at the expense of others would show extremely poor judgement on our part.

Edit: Read this post by a Chinese member. Pay particular attention to the part about possession being 9/10ths of the law. That what's really going on SCS today. To pretend like we are somehow harassing the poor Chinese is a fallacy that will find no takers outside Chinese community and that of China's lackeys

Who Would Win A Conflict In The South China Sea: The Infographic

Yes, we help the world in a mutually beneficial basis, I think it's not a shy, every country is built on this principle, but the way China is better, it has been proved that only less than 10 years, Africa as a place of prosperity and development, China's investment is a popular there, so that our way is better to help the world.

 

[Place Of Space]

OK, since many posts were edited and erased, the last part of this conversation lacks in logic.
Here is a logic stand.
I'll invite members to use their Internet connections to research the islands under construction
or expansion by China as well as international law of the seas. This way they'll discover that :
the average distance to mainland China of the reefs being worked on in the "Chinese meridional
sea" ( Subi, Cuarteron and other Spratleys ) is 550 NM while Philippines are from 300 to less than
200 NM away.
View attachment 226054
Then they can research the real ( not imaginary claims by any given government )
status of these waters to find that they're international ones. Last, they can check the veracity of
"attacks" or provocation by American planes and vessels by checking that these were in such
international space at the time of the alleged mishaps.
For referral, the red line below is that of China's claims versus the lawful lines of territorial waters
of the nations that also share this body of water and simply can't be expected to move somewhere
else or submit to Beijing.
View attachment 226056
Last are the shipping lines and the Strait of Malacca, one of the energy transport choke points on our planet :
View attachment 226059

Now, all honest posters will be equipped to judge who is honest and who is just greedy.
But having checked the above, ask yourselves : We heard China's contentions but how about
South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia and even more so Vietnam?
Don't they deserve liberty and international waters too?
Half baked articles ( the above byMike Whitney ) by an outlet that describes its own work thus :
"Ours is muckraking with a radical attitude and nothing makes us happier than when CounterPunch readers write in to say how useful they've found our newsletter in their battles against the war machine, big business and the rapers of nature."
Welcome to CounterPunch
although they since delete that page as some posts were in this thread, it won't change facts.

BTW, I'm rather left wing myself which means I support the right to freedom and existence of
ALL nations … not that of the one which complains the loudest solely.

Good day all, Tay.

I advise you not to waste your own time. All your logic is incorrect, you use EEZ to cover other's territory. The right logic is China is still peacefully waiting for Fillipines and Vietnam withdraw from Chinese territory. In 1946, China won the WWII, took back SCS islands from Japanese occupation. Fillipines and Vietnam used Cold War situation to steal Chinese territory in 1960's--1980's. They need to leave our islands as soon as possible, then start to negotiate and ascertain EEZ with China.

 

[somsak]

After reading too many examples of past history, I suggest all claimants negotiate peacefully. Asia need long peace. China will win this great game by having peace in Southeast Asia region. Vietnam and Philippines need great peace time to develop economy and industry.

 

[Taygibay]

In 1946, China won the WWII

???
No comment!

Good day, Tay.

 

[Huan]

After reading too many examples of past history, I suggest all claimants negotiate peacefully. Asia need long peace. China will win this great game by having peace in Southeast Asia region. Vietnam and Philippines need great peace time to develop economy and industry.

Yes we should negotiate peacefully. Washington should stop threatening to bring up the "big military stick" against Chinese construction activities in the South China Sea. China hasn't attack anybody nor block any trade shipments through the SCS. We should continue to hold the peace.

 

[Place Of Space]

???
No comment!

Good day, Tay.

The complete sentence is " In 1946, China won the WWII, took back SCS islands from Japanese occupation. " Maybe the grammar confuse you.

I try to edit the expression: After China won the WWII, in 1946, China took back SCS islands from Japanese occupation.

 

[HRM YANG]

China isn't offering to help. So there is nothing to reject.

Enjoy your nostalgia.

 

[DrawingDead]

The complete sentence is " In 1946, China won the WWII, took back SCS islands from Japanese occupation. " Maybe the grammar confuse you.

I try to edit the expression: After China won the WWII, in 1946, China took back SCS islands from Japanese occupation.

I think he's a little confused (as am I) since World War II ended in 1945 with the allies winning. But I'm sure you have your own version of history.

Enjoy your nostalgia.

I don't even know what that means.

 

[HRM YANG]

After reading too many examples of past history, I suggest all claimants negotiate peacefully. Asia need long peace. China will win this great game by having peace in Southeast Asia region. Vietnam and Philippines need great peace time to develop economy and industry.

Positive, as you statement, we don't bother any one else, we are calm enough but US insist to help his sidekick rogues to assert so called sovereignty. If not US keep harasses, our constructions and mercantile intercourse with ASEAN will be more pleased.
US is not focusing on enrich ASIA, but generating geopolitic conflicts and frictions to facilitate its weapon selling, and their pretentious excuse is rebalancing Asia-pacific.

 

[Huan]

Positive, as you statement, we don't bother any one else, we are calm enough but US insist to help his sidekick rogues to assert so called sovereignty. If not US keep harasses, our constructions and mercantile intercourse with ASEAN will be more pleased.
US is not focusing on enrich ASIA, but generating geopolitic conflicts and frictions to facilitate its weapon selling, and their pretentious excuse is rebalancing Asia-pacific.

It is sad. Washington is too obsess with the Asia Pacific while its plate is full of other things to take care of overseas.

 

[XiangLong]

What China has been doing, in what it considers its backyard, is similar to what ANY rising power has been doing since the knowledge of man.
The US did something similar 200 years back in its own backyard with the Monroe Doctrine. It has been considered by many that this was the craddle of US world hegemony, rather than the gains of WO II.

Even further back, Brittain put much effort in the Concert of Europe to prevent the (liberated) Netherlands, in the aftermaths of 1815, from being split up by Prussia as to deny the Prussians access to the North Sea and therefore maintaining Brittain's rule over the European seas. And indeed, Brittain remained Europe's sole dominant naval power up till the 1940s albeit it had to concede influence over the European mainland to Prussia.

Even as far back as 1572, an increasingly dominant Dutch Republic began shutting down the Schelde in order to block off Spanish Antwerp, which at that time was Europe's most prominant harbor. The Blokkade (Blockade) had considerable effect on the economy of the Spanish Netherlands over the years, in which importance began to shift towards the harbors of Amsterdam and (later) Rotterdam (in the rebel Northern Provinces), effectively establishing Dutch economical hegemony and heralding the Gouden Eeuw.

What we see in the SCS is no different. By no means am I trying to label this as good OR bad. The thing here is, and it is something we all need to acknowledge and realise, is that China is becoming a dominant power in the region, and like the aforementioned examples, you can't expect from a global power not to throw its weight around.

 

[Taygibay]

What we see in the SCS is no different

At last an honest viewpoint based on real history.
Of course, correctly interpreted, it confirms this thread's opener as trolling for the US is not attacking China
and the neighbours are legitimately worried instead.

Thank you, XiangLong, Tay.

 

[Huan]

At last an honest viewpoint based on real history.
Of course, correctly interpreted, it confirms this thread opener as trolling for the US is not attacking China
and the neighbours are legitimately worried instead.

Thank you, XiangLong, Tay.

Me trolling for the US? I am confused.

 

[Taygibay]

Me trolling for the US? I am confused.

… it confirms this thread's opener as trolling /
for ( meaning 3 : because of & 7 : with respect to For | Definition of for by Merriam-Webster )
… the US is not attacking China …

which a literate English speaker should have no problem with …
confirming IMHoO, and yes I am sorry to repeat this and to have to believe it,
that you may likely not be true ( red white & ) blue US as said in my first answer.

… posing as an American…

Interestingly enough, your answer above tends to accredit my view or you would not
have been so surprised, even to your interpretation of my phrase's meaning, to begin with.

When evaluating an Internet persona, cultural references and expression are tell tale signs.
For instance, I recently had another member commit a gaffe and admit to professional trolling
[ Me - I strongly suspect Russia will pull the plug on its troll for making it look bad
. Him- Mother Russia pays me well enough for my work. Don´t worry. ]
although it may have been mere bragging on his part.
The idea is that posing a someone you're not is pretty easy if attempting to fool ordinary folks
but quite difficult to pull off when evaluated by a knowledgeable and guarded person.

I value all truthful opinions and respect all people except the knaves trying to make me a fool …
for I'm not one!

No hard feelings, Tay.

 

[Huan]

… it confirms this thread's opener as trolling /
for ( meaning 3 : because of & 7 : with respect to For | Definition of for by Merriam-Webster )
… the US is not attacking China …

which a literate English speaker should have no problem with …
confirming IMHoO, and yes I am sorry to repeat this and to have to believe it,
that you may likely not be true ( red white & ) blue US as said in my first answer.



Interestingly enough, your answer above tends to accredit my view or you would not
have been so surprised, even to your interpretation of my phrase's meaning, to begin with.

When evaluating an Internet persona, cultural references and expression are tell tale signs.
For instance, I recently had another member commit a gaffe and admit to professional trolling
[ Me - I strongly suspect Russia will pull the plug on its troll for making it look bad
. Him- Mother Russia pays me well enough for my work. Don´t worry. ]
although it may have been mere bragging on his part.
The idea is that posing a someone you're not is pretty easy if attempting to fool ordinary folks
but quite difficult to pull off when evaluated by a knowledgeable and guarded person.

I value all truthful opinions and respect all people except the knaves trying to make me a fool …
for I'm not one!

No hard feelings, Tay.

I think you have a personal grudge against me. Just sayin. And your speculation and accusations against me are just plain wrong. I am not an imposter on this forum and whether or not I am a true American (Murrican) contributes nothing to this thread. I have already mentioned that I was born and raised in the US, but not adopting anti-China views and biases. Have a good day, @Taygibay <---the troll.