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US will not recognize China's air defence zone, Biden tells Xi

CHINI made CHINI FRY.

Curry Indian, if you can't have a normal debate then don't bother with silly replies it makes you look a retard like that racist Pinoy who has proven himself worthy of a macaca.
 
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Foreigners are so misguided, China doesn't need you to recognise it. The ADIZ merely is for China to send their warplanes to patrol.
 
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Curry Indian, if you can't have a normal debate then don't bother with silly replies it makes you look a retard like that racist Pinoy who has proven himself worthy of a macaca.
CHINI Guy , who started it.... Tienanmen square massacre....and who asked question.
 
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Chinese revisionist history is for local consumption. Rest of the world knows we saved you


Japan start a full scale invasion of China in 1937. US officially joined the war after Dec 7th, 1941. That is 4 years that China fought Japan on its own. At a time when China was weak and suffering from a famine.

Yet in 1942 in the 3rd battle of Changsha, China defected Japan in a full scale battle.
During the same year, the British surrender in Singapore and General MacArthur had to flee the Philippines.

The 3rd Battle of Changsha was acclaimed to be the only major Allied victory of the Asia-Pacific theater in late-1941/early-1942. It was seen as a major victory that could turn the tide of the war against Japan.
 
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Here is what you do not understand...Which is not surprising, really...

How can you determine what constitute a 'threat' or not? By heading? That is dangerous because flights do deviate for a variety of reasons, from avoidance of weather to creating clearance for other flights. Totally innocuous. So for while, an aircraft may be heading straight towards Chinese national airspace with no intention of entering it.

Here is my prediction: A commercial airline will be shot down by an itchy finger Chinese commander operating under murky rules of engagement and identification set down by a military inexperience at operating such a policy.

And all the Chinese members here will rejoice at such a tragedy.
that is WHY you follow our advice and carry a two-way radio communication so we can contact you if ever situation ever occur. If ever emergency occurs that your airline needs immediate landing on our territory, it is importance that you follow our ADIZ to avoid mistaken for being a plane being hijacked by terrorist or what's not. Do you understand, my friend? Like we said, follow our ADIZ rule if you don't want miscalculation.

Here is a hypothetical situation. Let say an unidentified plane defy our ADIZ rule fly in the ADIZ zone but due to weather condition change needs immediate landing emergency so it changes course and heading toward our national airspace. First thing we will do is monitor the situation. We issue radio communication but this plane didn't follow our rule and doesn't carry a two-way radio or identification. The next step we will do is we send plane interception to check. If this plane continues heading toward our national airspace and doesn't communicate with our defense ministry, we will shoot. It's that simple.
 
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CHINI Guy , who started it.... Tienanmen square massacre....and who asked question.

First of all Curry Indian learn to spell the square correctly, and secondly if you have a brain and understand how to read here are some news articles from British and American sources before you start blaming CCP censorship.

Chinese newspaper cites WikiLeaks: ‘Tiananmen massacre a myth’ - WorldViews - The Washington Post

Wikileaks: no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square, cables claim - Telegraph

Brendan O'Neill: The west's fairytale of Tiananmen | Comment is free | theguardian.com
 
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that is WHY you follow our advice and carry a two-way radio communication so we can contact you if ever situation ever occur. If ever emergency occurs that your airline needs immediate landing on our territory, it is importance that you follow our ADIZ to avoid mistaken for being a plane being hijacked by terrorist or what's not. Do you understand, my friend? Like we said, follow our ADIZ rule if you don't want miscalculation.
Does not require an ADIZ. Do you understand, my friend?

The establishment of an ADIZ by any government is purely arbitrary. No international advisory/consultant/authoritative body have any say in it. Any government can create any rules inside it and if anyone does not like those rules, there is nothing they can do about it except to present their objections. In short, an ADIZ by any country have no foundation in international law. It means an ADIZ is neither 'legal' nor 'illegal' in the sense of precedence.

But what you, the rest of the Chinese members here, and the suck-ups, do not understand is that the formal establishment of an ADIZ is a statement of intent to exercise INCREASED AND EXCEPTIONAL controls of an airspace that extends beyond what international agreements and laws recognized as exclusive to the country, such as territorial airspace or an area of the sea that is acknowledged to be an economic asset, and that any time such increased and exceptional controls of a non-territorial area, air or sea, are claimed, there better be exceptional justifications presented to the international community for examination. As courtesy, such an area that is claimed for increased and exceptional controls by A should not trespass B's territorial airspace and if B already have an existing ADIZ, the new ADIZ created by A should not trespass that of B.

The creation of an ADIZ is based upon analyses of potential access by anyone, friendly and hostile, by air, and generally it is based on perception of threats. Friends do not threatens friends. That is why there is not an ADIZ between US and Canada. Have any of you done any basic research on flights between the US, Mexico, and assorted island nations in the Western hemisphere? Probably not, so here is a sample...

Private aircraft arriving from areas south of the U.S.
(b) Advance report of penetration of U.S. airspace.

The notice may be furnished directly to Customs by telephone, radio, or other means, or may be furnishd through the Federal Aviation Administration to Customs.
Pretty simple. A flight plan can even be phoned in. The US and Mexico are not hostile to each other.

If Japan have an ADIZ, and there is one, it was created because the US-Japan alliance felt there were sufficient countries that are either outright hostile to Japan or of indeterminate relationships and that these countries have high accessibility to the Japanese home islands and other national territorial assets. So it is absurd to simply argue that since A, B, and C each have their respective ADIZ, D must have one as well. Just because the US on the Western Hemisphere have an ADIZ because Soviet/Russian bombers often test our defense, it does not means landlocked Luxembourg that is surrounded by friends on the other side of the world must have an ADIZ as well.

Here is a hypothetical situation. Let say an unidentified plane defy our ADIZ rule fly in the ADIZ zone but due to weather condition change needs immediate landing emergency so it changes course and heading toward our national airspace. First thing we will do is monitor the situation. We issue radio communication but this plane didn't follow our rule and doesn't carry a two-way radio or identification. The next step we will do is we send plane interception to check. If this plane continues heading toward our national airspace and doesn't communicate with our defense ministry, we will shoot. It's that simple.
Is this China's first ADIZ? Let the forum see if you guys can find out.

But the bottom line is that China have next to no experience in the maintenance of an ADIZ. The word 'maintenance' here mean creating an ADIZ, making rules for it which includes exceptions to the same, publishing those rules and their exceptions, explaining those rules and exceptions to the international aviation community, and finally enforcing those rules with restraints and without appearing aggressive and belligerent.

The Hainan Incident (2001) is not forgotten by the international aviation community. Yes, everyone know the US was on a 'spy' mission. But no, the same community will not excuse China, particularly the PLAAF, for poor intercept protocols and air discipline that resulted in a collision that killed the Chinese pilot in international airspace where no ADIZ was declared. Now with an ADIZ where the Chinese government have presented rules to the international aviation community and with those rules came latitudes for the government to respond with lethal force if the interceptors and their local commanders felt necessary, the odds of a tragedy dramatically increases via an aggressive but inexperience military.

I hope my prediction will never come true, but I still stand by it: There will be a commercial airliner shot down by an incompetent interceptor inside this ADIZ.
 
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Does not require an ADIZ. Do you understand, my friend?

The establishment of an ADIZ by any government is purely arbitrary. No international advisory/consultant/authoritative body have any say in it. Any government can create any rules inside it and if anyone does not like those rules, there is nothing they can do about it except to present their objections. In short, an ADIZ by any country have no foundation in international law. It means an ADIZ is neither 'legal' nor 'illegal' in the sense of precedence.

But what you, the rest of the Chinese members here, and the suck-ups, do not understand is that the formal establishment of an ADIZ is a statement of intent to exercise INCREASED AND EXCEPTIONAL controls of an airspace that extends beyond what international agreements and laws recognized as exclusive to the country, such as territorial airspace or an area of the sea that is acknowledged to be an economic asset, and that any time such increased and exceptional controls of a non-territorial area, air or sea, are claimed, there better be exceptional justifications presented to the international community for examination. As courtesy, such an area that is claimed for increased and exceptional controls by A should not trespass B's territorial airspace and if B already have an existing ADIZ, the new ADIZ created by A should not trespass that of B.

The creation of an ADIZ is based upon analyses of potential access by anyone, friendly and hostile, by air, and generally it is based on perception of threats. Friends do not threatens friends. That is why there is not an ADIZ between US and Canada. Have any of you done any basic research on flights between the US, Mexico, and assorted island nations in the Western hemisphere? Probably not, so here is a sample...

Private aircraft arriving from areas south of the U.S.

Pretty simple. A flight plan can even be phoned in. The US and Mexico are not hostile to each other.

If Japan have an ADIZ, and there is one, it was created because the US-Japan alliance felt there were sufficient countries that are either outright hostile to Japan or of indeterminate relationships and that these countries have high accessibility to the Japanese home islands and other national territorial assets. So it is absurd to simply argue that since A, B, and C each have their respective ADIZ, D must have one as well. Just because the US on the Western Hemisphere have an ADIZ because Soviet/Russian bombers often test our defense, it does not means landlocked Luxembourg that is surrounded by friends on the other side of the world must have an ADIZ as well.


Is this China's first ADIZ? Let the forum see if you guys can find out.

But the bottom line is that China have next to no experience in the maintenance of an ADIZ. The word 'maintenance' here mean creating an ADIZ, making rules for it which includes exceptions to the same, publishing those rules and their exceptions, explaining those rules and exceptions to the international aviation community, and finally enforcing those rules with restraints and without appearing aggressive and belligerent.

The Hainan Incident (2001) is not forgotten by the international aviation community. Yes, everyone know the US was on a 'spy' mission. But no, the same community will not excuse China, particularly the PLAAF, for poor intercept protocols and air discipline that resulted in a collision that killed the Chinese pilot in international airspace where no ADIZ was declared. Now with an ADIZ where the Chinese government have presented rules to the international aviation community and with those rules came latitudes for the government to respond with lethal force if the interceptors and their local commanders felt necessary, the odds of a tragedy dramatically increases via an aggressive but inexperience military.

I hope my prediction will never come true, but I still stand by it: There will be a commercial airliner shot down by an incompetent interceptor inside this ADIZ.
Does not require an ADIZ. Do you understand, my friend?

The establishment of an ADIZ by any government is purely arbitrary. No international advisory/consultant/authoritative body have any say in it. Any government can create any rules inside it and if anyone does not like those rules, there is nothing they can do about it except to present their objections. In short, an ADIZ by any country have no foundation in international law. It means an ADIZ is neither 'legal' nor 'illegal' in the sense of precedence.

But what you, the rest of the Chinese members here, and the suck-ups, do not understand is that the formal establishment of an ADIZ is a statement of intent to exercise INCREASED AND EXCEPTIONAL controls of an airspace that extends beyond what international agreements and laws recognized as exclusive to the country, such as territorial airspace or an area of the sea that is acknowledged to be an economic asset, and that any time such increased and exceptional controls of a non-territorial area, air or sea, are claimed, there better be exceptional justifications presented to the international community for examination. As courtesy, such an area that is claimed for increased and exceptional controls by A should not trespass B's territorial airspace and if B already have an existing ADIZ, the new ADIZ created by A should not trespass that of B.

The creation of an ADIZ is based upon analyses of potential access by anyone, friendly and hostile, by air, and generally it is based on perception of threats. Friends do not threatens friends. That is why there is not an ADIZ between US and Canada. Have any of you done any basic research on flights between the US, Mexico, and assorted island nations in the Western hemisphere? Probably not, so here is a sample...

Private aircraft arriving from areas south of the U.S.

Pretty simple. A flight plan can even be phoned in. The US and Mexico are not hostile to each other.

If Japan have an ADIZ, and there is one, it was created because the US-Japan alliance felt there were sufficient countries that are either outright hostile to Japan or of indeterminate relationships and that these countries have high accessibility to the Japanese home islands and other national territorial assets. So it is absurd to simply argue that since A, B, and C each have their respective ADIZ, D must have one as well. Just because the US on the Western Hemisphere have an ADIZ because Soviet/Russian bombers often test our defense, it does not means landlocked Luxembourg that is surrounded by friends on the other side of the world must have an ADIZ as well.


Is this China's first ADIZ? Let the forum see if you guys can find out.

But the bottom line is that China have next to no experience in the maintenance of an ADIZ. The word 'maintenance' here mean creating an ADIZ, making rules for it which includes exceptions to the same, publishing those rules and their exceptions, explaining those rules and exceptions to the international aviation community, and finally enforcing those rules with restraints and without appearing aggressive and belligerent.

The Hainan Incident (2001) is not forgotten by the international aviation community. Yes, everyone know the US was on a 'spy' mission. But no, the same community will not excuse China, particularly the PLAAF, for poor intercept protocols and air discipline that resulted in a collision that killed the Chinese pilot in international airspace where no ADIZ was declared. Now with an ADIZ where the Chinese government have presented rules to the international aviation community and with those rules came latitudes for the government to respond with lethal force if the interceptors and their local commanders felt necessary, the odds of a tragedy dramatically increases via an aggressive but inexperience military.

I hope my prediction will never come true, but I still stand by it: There will be a commercial airliner shot down by an incompetent interceptor inside this ADIZ.
What a bogus and useless argument. We already know the ADIZ has no legal base in international law but just an extent of intention and a warning system. It offers our aircrafts the flexibility operating in Japan ADIZ and created to make Japan ADIZ irrelevant, just from a public perception standpoint. From this point, it is already a strategic victory for us. It's laughable for you to suggest that A and B can have an ADIZ because the perception of a threat from C, therefore C can't have its an ADIZ. This is always the problem with the US mindset. It always consider others as threat but others cannot consider the US as their threat. Let me put it this way, our ADIZ was created to neutralize any advantage Japan/USA may have in the East Sea. Do you understand, my friend?

I repeat, there are 50+ countries with an ADIZ and NONE of them have any prior experience when first establishing their ADIZ. Your point?

Yes, my friend. I'm glad you brought up the Hainan Incident. That is exactly another reason why we need an ADIZ. In 2001, we have little resources, power, and experience to enforce our territorial airspace security. Not anymore, my friend! If you consider violating our airspace is an inherent rights of foreign states, try again! I repeat, experience is gain by flying more and actually having the objective to do. From 2001 to 2013, that is if you consider our pilots only start flying in 2001, we have 12 years of experience.

I'm sure your prediction is lunatic and won't come true. IF there is a commercial airliner that being shot down by us, you can bet your *** that commercial airliner did not comply with our ADIZ rule and heading in the wrong direction without giving us prior notice. For my country security, we have no choice but to shoot it down in order to avoid a 9/11 situation. Understand, my friend?
 
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The Hainan Incident (2001) is not forgotten by the international aviation community. Yes, everyone know the US was on a 'spy' mission. But no, the same community will not excuse China, particularly the PLAAF, for poor intercept protocols and air discipline that resulted in a collision that killed the Chinese pilot in international airspace where no ADIZ was declared. Now with an ADIZ where the Chinese government have presented rules to the international aviation community and with those rules came latitudes for the government to respond with lethal force if the interceptors and their local commanders felt necessary, the odds of a tragedy dramatically increases via an aggressive but inexperience military.

You are too smart for your own good. This much is clear to us now.

Where does it state that the government or local commanders will respond with lethal force inside the ADIZ?

It maybe the case for "America", but it certainly isn't for China.

With the ADIZ now in place, this will enable us to prevent cases like 911 and better prepares us for those belligerent U.S. spy planes.

I hope my prediction will never come true, but I still stand by it: There will be a commercial airliner shot down by an incompetent interceptor inside this ADIZ.

I too hope so, one incident is enough. The world have not forgotten and would not like to see another incompetent commander issuing firing orders at a big lumbering commercial airliner after mistaking it for a smaller yet nimble fighter jet and killing all 300 on board.

Those that are involved in the July 1988 Shooting Down of Iran Air Flight 655, killing all 300 innocent civilians on board, have all gotten awarded combat action ribbons or medals for heroic achievement.

Lets us all pray that PLAAF does not repeat this horrendous mistake, once made by an incompetent U.S commander inside someone else's territory.
 
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What a bogus and useless argument. We already know the ADIZ has no legal base in international law but just an extent of intention and a warning system. It offers our aircrafts the flexibility operating in Japan ADIZ and created to make Japan ADIZ irrelevant, just from a public perception standpoint. From this point, it is already a strategic victory for us. It's laughable for you to suggest that A and B can have an ADIZ because the perception of a threat from C, therefore C can't have its an ADIZ. This is always the problem with the US mindset. It always consider others as threat but others cannot consider the US as their threat. Let me put it this way, our ADIZ was created to neutralize any advantage Japan/USA may have in the East Sea. Do you understand, my friend?
It is laughable that you think that was the gist of my argument. But then difficulties of comprehension of complex arguments seems to be normal for the Chinese members here anyway.

Like I said, an ADIZ is a declaration of increased and exceptional authority and controls of an area of international airspace. This declaration treads the fine line between excising this area from international airspace and make it an extension of one's own territorial airspace. When the US did it for North America, of course there were anxieties from other countries precisely because of that fear, but the US and Canada made clear the limits, area and rules wise, plus every country realize that given the geography of the Western Hemisphere countries, it is easy to enter Central and South American countries without even touching the North American ADIZ.

It goes this way: An ADIZ is not a mandatory thing to have but if a country decides to create and maintain one, prior to the creation of such, extensive analyses must be done to see if one's proposed ADIZ intrudes into foreign territorial airspace and/or existing ADIZ, analyses of air traffic corridors and potential deviations within, the rules and their scope of the new ADIZ, the response capabilities, and finally, how about a simple gesture of courtesy to the neighbors?

Chinese decision on ADIZ not a wise course of action: Hagel | Business Standard
"I think that we've made it pretty clear what our position is, the United States, on this. It's not that the ADIZ itself is new or unique. The biggest concern that we have is how it was done so unilaterally and so immediately without any consultation. That's not a wise course of action to take for any country," Hagel told Pentagon reporters.
This was sheer incompetence and disrespect to international courtesy from China.

I repeat, there are 50+ countries with an ADIZ and NONE of them have any prior experience when first establishing their ADIZ. Your point?
Answer the question: Is this China's first ADIZ or not?

Yes, my friend. I'm glad you brought up the Hainan Incident. That is exactly another reason why we need an ADIZ. In 2001, we have little resources, power, and experience to enforce our territorial airspace security. Not anymore, my friend! If you consider violating our airspace is an inherent rights of foreign states, try again! I repeat, experience is gain by flying more and actually having the objective to do. From 2001 to 2013, that is if you consider our pilots only start flying in 2001, we have 12 years of experience.
Even if there was an ADIZ back then, the US would still be within international laws and rights since the recon flights were conducted in international airspace. The most China could have done was to escort the EP-3 while it conduct its mission, no different than what we did with the Soviet bombers outside Alaska. But from the way you talk, you already consider an ADIZ territorial airspace. Congratulations on your feeble understanding of the issue.

I'm sure your prediction is lunatic and won't come true. IF there is a commercial airliner that being shot down by us, you can bet your *** that commercial airliner did not comply with our ADIZ rule and heading in the wrong direction without giving us prior notice. For my country security, we have no choice but to shoot it down in order to avoid a 9/11 situation. Understand, my friend?
My prediction is that despite obedience to the ADIZ rules, there will be a measure of incompetence and arrogance on the Chinese part that will result in a tragedy. If the Chinese members here is a reflection of China, there will be a tragedy.
 
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You are too smart for your own good. This much is clear to us now.
Too smart for you guys as well. That much is clear to the forum.

Where does it state that the government or local commanders will respond with lethal force inside the ADIZ?

It maybe the case for "America", but it certainly isn't for China.
The rules says so. If some kind of force is not an option, what is the point of an ADIZ, or any law, in the first place?

With the ADIZ now in place, this will enable us to prevent cases like 911 and better prepares us for those belligerent U.S. spy planes.
Recon flights are never belligerent.

I too hope so, one incident is enough. The world have not forgotten and would not like to see another incompetent commander issuing firing orders at a big lumbering commercial airliner after mistaking it for a smaller yet nimble fighter jet and killing all 300 on board.

Those that are involved in the July 1988 Shooting Down of Iran Air Flight 655, killing all 300 innocent civilians on board, have all gotten awarded combat action ribbons or medals for heroic achievement.

Lets us all pray that PLAAF does not repeat this horrendous mistake, once made by an incompetent U.S commander inside someone else's territory.
The area where IAF 655 normally operate in was known to be unsafe. Korean Air 007 is the more appropriate analogy.

Keyword search for you 'nasa kal 007 747 navigation error'.

After the Soviet empire collapsed, the Russians turned KAL 007's data recorders for real technical analyses that revealed severe operational and procedural deficiencies on the Soviets' part when it comes to detection and dealing with unknown aircrafts. China will do a 'KAL 007'.
 
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