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US will forget Vietnam if it attacks 'FATA'

Pakistanis are used to poverty and death americans are not

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------



well iranian women tend to be pretty I would volunteer to help out in national cause of iran



It is correct that with so much death and destruction in Pakistan since 2007 there is a growing numbness toward pain and violence except for those directly/indirectly affected by them. This is not to say that the nation-at-large welcomes such tragedies but, given human nature, people are not 'surprised' anymore; and they are probably turning suicidal enough to exact a 'revenge'.

Any other nation would have gone that route.

The biggest tragedy of all this is that basically Pakistan-India rivalry which is the cause of such mayhem. And both countries came very close to find some detente barely 3-4 years ago.
 
The Price Paid By Pakistan
September 24, 2011
By BRIAN CLOUGHLEY

In the course of research for a paper on US-Pakistan relations I came across a speech given by President Obama in March this year, titled ‘A New Strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan’. It was interesting and quite informative, if misguided and engagingly ingenuous, but the riveting sentence that leapt from the page to my astonished eyes was the declaration that “The United States of America did not choose to fight a war in Afghanistan.”

It’s a bit like being told “Hitler didn’t cause World War Two”, or reading a newspaper headline like “Republican Politician Tells Truth” or “Netanyahu Says Arabs are Human” But the Obama assertion was even more bizarre.

Nobody grabbed America’s collective nose and ordered it to send special forces to go to Afghanistan’s Tora Bora region on 7 October 2001, along with a few dozen British colleagues and a now-rich bunch of raggy baggy Afghan warlords who took millions of CIA dollars in enormous shrink-wrapped bundles and then sat down on their money and did nothing – until they sent the cash to Dubai and Geneva, courtesy of the corrupt Kabul Bank. The prime mover in that farce (for such it was, alas, in spite of instances of exceptionally courageous conduct by US and British soldiers; I have had a first-hand description of the operation, but alas can’t recount it because of the UK’s Official Secrets Act), was the White House. The pathetic Blair of Britain followed in his usual fashion, desperate to have bonding photographs taken alongside the grinning Bush.

It was most certainly the United States of America that chose to invade Afghanistan. And it was the United States that manipulated the United Nations Security Council into a Resolution that seemed to give justification for its unwinnable war.

Two researchers in the British House of Commons have produced a paper titled ‘The Legal Basis for the Invasion of Afghanistan’. These analysts are not bleeding-heart liberals; they are intelligent, independent assessors of fact. And they wrote : “The military campaign in Afghanistan was not specifically mandated by the UN – there was no specific Security Council Resolution authorising the invasion – but was widely (although not universally) perceived to be a legitimate form of self-defence under the UN Charter.”

The whole thing was a con-job. And dozens of nations were summoned to give it a slimy veneer of quasi-legitimacy. They were all duped – or chose to be manoeuvred – into committing blood, young lives and treasure to the preposterously named “Operation Enduring Freedom.”

While writing this piece I went to the website icasualties and saw that yet more young foreign soldiers had been killed. Boys of 19 and 20 are dying in Afghanistan for . . . for what? There are no names of Afghan soldiers, of course, because they don’t matter to the West – any more than the deaths of Pakistani soldiers matter to Western politicians and generals who demand that “Pakistan must do more to combat terrorism.” What they mean is that even more soldiers of the Pakistan army and Frontier Corps should sacrifice their lives in order to make things easier for the West to claim that things are improving in its Afghan catastrophe.

Had there been no invasion of Afghanistan by foreign troops, Pakistan would not be in the dreadful situation in which it now finds itself. The fanatics came over the border and found sanctuary amid the lawless, savage, but culturally hospitable Pushtun tribes, which at that very time were being encouraged, with signs of modest success, to join mainstream Pakistan. But the displaced militants began energetic campaigns of propaganda and hatred, and then wreaked havoc by brainwashing home-grown barbarians to develop their own brand of evil mayhem.

Pakistan had no suicide bombings until 1995 when an Egyptian citizen tried to drive a bomb-truck into his embassy in Islamabad. There were no other attacks until 2005, when there were two, by sectarian religious fanatics. But then the foreigners’ war in Afghanistan really got going, and in 2007 there were over fifty suicide attacks in Pakistan, most of which directly targeted military forces. Since then it’s been a hideous growth industry. Last year fifty bombings killed over 1100 people, and so far this year the score is 500 dead innocents.

Thank you, Operation Enduring Freedom. And thank you, too, America, for the deaths of over 3,000 soldiers of the Pakistan army and Frontier Corps, because none of them would have been killed were it not for your war in Afghanistan.

Kabul’s US-endorsed and fraudulently elected government and its supporting foreign military forces whine about Pakistan being unable to control movement of militants to and from Afghanistan, and certainly it is impossible to do this – as the US well knows but won’t admit. Across its own fenced and heavily patrolled border with Mexico, which costs an annual 6 billion dollars to maintain and has over 20,000 border agents, pass hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and thousands of tons of drugs every year.

Ignoring its own backyard cross-border shambles, the US demands that Pakistan commit its soldiers to invade its border Tribal Agency, North Waziristan to fight militants who – undoubtedly – cross the border to Afghanistan to fight there.

This operation – or, rather, long series of operations, because it would take years if mounted, would require some 60,000 soldiers, of whom a thousand would be killed in a two-year campaign – were that all the time it would take. There would be at least 3,000 Pakistan army and Frontier Corps soldiers wounded, with hundreds of them maimed for life. There would be thousands of widows, orphans and grieving parents and families.

The aim of the US and its dwindling number of international supporters in Afghanistan is not intended to further stability in Pakistan – because a North Waziristan military operation would mightily increase the numbers of suicide and other attacks throughout the country. Their objective is to make it easier for them to claim that their war in Afghanistan is going well, as part of President Obama’s ‘New Strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan.’ Thousands of civilians would have to flee from their homes in Waziristan. The social and economic cost would be immense throughout the country.

Does Pakistan think this is a price worth paying?

***

The US Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mullen, stated unequivocally on September 22 that Pakistan’s government and armed forces “use violent extremism as an instrument of policy”, and were responsible for the recent attack on the US embassy in Kabul, as well as “the 28 June attack against the Inter-Continental Hotel in Kabul and a host of other smaller but effective operations.”

Now Mullen isn’t the sharpest knife in the box, and has made many fatuous statements ever since he got into a position in which he thought that he could get headlines by making fantastic statements; but even for him, this was a lulu. He has also declared that the government and intelligence service and army of Pakistan have killed, or want to kill, American citizens. He has announced that Pakistan “jeopardises not only the prospect of our strategic partnership, but also Pakistan’s opportunity to be a respected nation with legitimate regional influence.”

He has utterly destroyed any tiny lingering trust between America and Pakistan.

Then, amazingly, on the one hand he declares that Pakistan is an international pariah and not to be regarded as reliable on any account, and then says “With Pakistan’s help we have disrupted al-Qaeda and its senior leadership in the border regions and degraded its ability to plan and conduct terror attacks”. This is so illogical and off-the-planet as to make one wonder if he had had a bevy of Scotches before he went in to the legislators’ Committee to which he testified.

And I’ll tell Mullen something he doesn’t know: Yes, Pakistan’s intelligence agency does have liaison with extremists. The Directorate of Inter Services Intelligence maintains contact with all sorts of loony, barbaric and evil organisations. Just as does the CIA. It does so, because it knows the people of these groups are ruthless, powerful and extremely dangerous and it wants to have a handle on what they do, and, if possible, engage them in negotiations on behalf of government. Just like the CIA did with, for example, Libya’s lunatic and murderous Gadaffi.

Mullen’s wacky pronouncements have pushed US credibility in Pakistan to an even further low, which might have been expected, given what his boss, defence secretary Panetta, has been spouting.

The US is threatening to invade Pakistan rather than endorse ongoing and extremely delicate negotiations with tribal and other fanatics in its western regions. The intention was made clear when Panetta, referring to Pakistan’s supposed support of militant operations in Afghanistan, declared that “We’re not going to allow these types of attacks to go on.”

I’ve got news for Mullen and Panetta. If they imagine the Pakistan Army will be a pushover like the Iraqis, they have another think coming. If US forces attempt an incursion into Pakistan in North Waziristan or anywhere else they will meet reaction not only from the tribes and militants but from a proud and professional army which will not accept flagrant violation of national sovereignty. I know the Pakistan Army, and I state flatly that man-for-man it will hammer any opponent, no matter if the skies are horizon-filled with US bombers.

Does America think this is a price worth paying?
Source: counterpunch
 
The question is When and where If USA want to attack pakistan.

Can Pakistan take the war to US mainland or will it hit the bases in ME.
which country can provide Logistic support to US (Other than Isreal and India)
how effective are pakistan submarine to hit US Battle groups.
Pakistan Missile Range is about Max 3500 KM.
Does Pakistan has long range Submarine launch Missile.
What Impact it will be on US economy
what about Pakistani favoured senator will do in Congress

All these point US will lookly deelpy and then take any stupid step.
 
what should India do in this scenario. Can India do anything to support pakistan and prevent the war.

A very sane thought, if only more people could have the same kind of thinking. The irony is that when it comes to China, Indians always tells us how we could be stronger together and china is just using us against each other but somehow they forget to mention the same when it comes to the US and are actually favoring such an out come.
 
Pretty strong words..the worst US nightmare is an action gone wrong and rouge tribal elements armed with a "dirty bomb".

Oh comon man do u think the country which will get attacked by a dirty bomb by state/non state actors will leave u and specially if that country is USA??heck ur claim of missiles and bombs they cant even reach main land USA if fired from pakistan..
 
A very sane thought, if only more people could have the same kind of thinking. The irony is that when it comes to China, Indians always tells us how we could be stronger together and china is just using us against each other but somehow they forget to mention the same when it comes to the US and are actually favoring such an out come.

Common dude Y is the whole world blaming u guys for terrorist attacks on their soils?? U pakistanis also know that terrorism is supported by GOP How long will the world be mute spectator ??

And what has pakistan to offer india for its support against USA?? will u dismantle the terror camps directed towards u and hand over dawood
 
Data from drone strikes:

Estimated Total Deaths from U.S. Drone Strikes in Pakistan, 2010 - 2011

Deaths (low) Deaths (high)
2011* 322 457
2010 607 993


Estimated Militant Deaths from U.S. Drone Strikes in Pakistan 2010 - 2011

Deaths (low) Deaths (high)
2011* 306 421
2010 581 939

The Year of the Drone | NewAmerica.net

It has referred to data from local reports as well before coming up with the conclusions.

Pakistan and the U.S.: At a Strategic Crossroads - YouTube

man those figures make me happy
 
Common dude Y is the whole world blaming u guys for terrorist attacks on their soils?? U pakistanis also know that terrorism is supported by GOP How long will the world be mute spectator ??

And what has pakistan to offer india for its support against USA?? will u dismantle the terror camps directed towards u and hand over dawood
Spout this nonsense someplace else. For you guys the world starts with the letter U and ends with A. We have nothing to offer to India as India has nothing to offer to us. My point was only specific to somebody who said something very logical, something the likes of you dont want to understand. And please dont call be dude. thks
 
A very sane thought, if only more people could have the same kind of thinking. The irony is that when it comes to China, Indians always tells us how we could be stronger together and china is just using us against each other but somehow they forget to mention the same when it comes to the US and are actually favoring such an out come.

i give two hoots to what others say regarding china,chinese are evil and we cant trust them,pakistanis can never be trusted it'd be great if they attack pak.

lets wait for the day when arab oil ends and nobody will give a damn to them,i wont be alive to see that day but i am happy that it will happen-"end of the muslim world"
 
Pakistan has one advantage over US if war breaks out.It will fight in it's own homeland & would have massive local support.
 
i give two hoots to what others say regarding china,chinese are evil and we cant trust them,pakistanis can never be trusted it'd be great if they attack pak.

lets wait for the day when arab oil ends and nobody will give a damn to them,i wont be alive to see that day but i am happy that it will happen-"end of the muslim world"

So what the hell are you doing here then on a Pakistani defense forum you bloody Indian Hypocrite. Chinese are evils and so are the Pakistanis, the only saints are i believe the Indians because they drink the holy cow piss and the americans because Indians said so.
Muslim world is going nowhere. Not in your life time, not even in your grandsons life time.So don't wet your pants just yet.
 
I guess war is no good for anybody either Pakistan or US.They shold relax , calm down and start table talks to discuss each others problems and try to help each other for the benefit of their people.
 
Pakistani tribesmen threaten US with holy war
AFP (1 hour ago) Today

LANDIKOTAL: Hundreds of Pakistani tribesmen on Tuesday threatened the United States with holy war, lashing out at demands for action against Al-Qaeda-linked Haqqani extremists based in Pakistan.

There is growing unease in Pakistan about US pressure to take on the Haqqani network or face the consequences, with the military saying it is too over-stretched fighting local Taliban to open a new front against a US enemy.

Having accused the network of orchestrating recent attacks on its embassy in Kabul and a Nato base in Afghanistan, with Pakistani intelligence involvement, Washington now says it is considering branding the network a terror group.

Any such move could complicate future efforts to negotiate a settlement in Afghanistan and, given US claims about government ties to the network, risk Pakistan being branded a state sponsor of terror, local analysts warned.

On Tuesday, hundreds of tribesmen gathered in Landikotal, a town on Pakistan’s northwestern border with Afghanistan, mobilised by religious party Jamaat-e-Islami to protest against the United States.

Waving party flags and wearing ribbons inscribed with Koranic verses, dozens of tribesmen joined the throng armed with Kalashnikovs, an AFP reporter said.

“We announce the holy war against America if they attack Pakistan,” Siraj-Ul-Haq, the party’s deputy head, told the gathering.

“The whole nation will wage a jihad against America and will fight against them shoulder to shoulder with Pakistani armed forces,” Haq added.

JI has no seats in the national assembly, but anti-Americanism is rampant in the country of 167 million, fuelled by beliefs that Islamist militancy is a direct result of the US war in Afghanistan.

Before setting off for Landikotal, the crowd chanted slogans such as “Death to America”, Allah Akhbar (God is great) and al-Jihad (holy war).

Although nothing suggests the United States is considering a cross-border incursion, Pakistanis fear action from American ground troops.

The alliance between Pakistan and the United States in the 10-year war in Afghanistan and against Al-Qaeda hit rock bottom this year in the wake of the unilateral American raid that killed Osama bin Laden near Islamabad on May 2.

The Haqqani group was founded by former CIA asset turned Al-Qaeda ally Jalaluddin Haqqani, who was close to Pakistan and the US spy agency during the 1980s anti-Soviet resistance, and its leaders are based in North Waziristan.

Today the United States depends on Pakistan, largely for shipping the bulk of its supplies to the 140,000 US-led foreign troops in landlocked Afghanistan, but also to counter the threat from militants in the border areas.
 
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