US will forget Vietnam if it attacks 'FATA'

[VCheng]

So we are in agreement then that there will be no such thing as a 'quick and effective war', and any war with Pakistan will likely be even more prolonged than the Afghan war.

If needed, there will be a quick and effective initial war phase, followed by a managed low grade civil war that destroys the very fabric of society. Please look to Iraq as an example, and imagine that being applied to Pakistan, with several Abu Ghraibs and Fallujahs thrown in for good measure.

Depends on how quickly the oil infrastructure will be restored - it was certainly not restored very quickly in Iraq - the price spike and shortage could possibly last years, and that is more than enough time to wreak havoc on the economies and average consumer. And while the US may, in all its irrationality, find it fit to make its economy and citizens suffer over 'strategic domination globally', Europe and Asia certainly have no desire for it.

I suppose we could agree to disagree on this for now. Even if Pakistan managed to slip out a nuclear missile (or several) the recovery in production would be relatively quick.

 

[53fd]

If needed, there will be a quick and effective initial war phase, followed by a managed low grade civil war that destroys the very fabric of society. Please look to Iraq as an example, and imagine that being applied to Pakistan, with several Abu Ghraibs and Fallujahs thrown in for good measure.

How does one have a quick & effective initial war phase against 180 million people, the 7th most populous country in the world? While the US might be able to destroy Pakistan infrastructure, the act will unite (which they haven't done in a long time) the Pakistani people together against a common enemy, & that is the complete opposite of the destruction of the fabric of the society. I think both you & I know that there won't be any Abu Ghraibs & Fallujahs involved here, because you yourself admitted that this will be an air & naval war, any ground troops in Pakistan will get slaughtered, just like they are in Afghanistan, & will ten-fold in case of war against Pakistan. I hope you realize you aren't making a positive case for America when you mention the Abu Ghraibs & the Fallujahs, unless the purpose of your post is to flame & bait.

 

[hunter_hunted]

Nations who forget their history are bound to repeat it, so the USA will never forget Vietnam. Saddam promised the "Mother of all Battles" in the case US attacked, did he not? Perhaps Senator Saifullah should remember that.

oh please stop comparing Iraqi army with Pakistani army, Iraqi army didnt have the sophisticated weapons and a good military leadership to deal the onslaught of the allied armies thats y Baghdad Collapsed.

But in case of Pakistan its a different situation, we have will , weapon and a professional army, every one is fed up of Americans now .

And by the will of Allah we will nail the Americans in this arena TIME IS CHANGING MY FRIEND. THEIR ECONOMY IS NOT GOING TO HOLD ON TO SUCH MILITARY OPS.

 

[below_freezing]

1. I still remember one CHinese here said that, but I forgot the link , btw , you did not know how to shoot down B-52 in 1972 bcz you could not help Vn to resist US jammer.

2. Our spies are Perfect, we sent some spied in to Viet Tan group already, so Viet Tan is impossible to harm VN , and don't forget when both China-USA tried to beat up small Vn suring 80s , US also sent VietTan leader Hoang Co Minh back to VN, but he got killed in Cambodia already.

btw: CHina is US threat, not VN now, they won't help you to harm us )


S.K can do Nothing without US support , so we don't know who stronger now

we can make a new Viet Tan. Many Vietnamese hate the communist regime. Before, we believe that we are socialist brothers, but if Communist Party in Vietnam continues to go against China, then maybe we should regard your Communist Party as a fake one, and actually a Fascist Nazi Party, and we will help the Vietnamese people overthrow this fascist Party by setting up a no-fly zone over Hanoi.

 

[hunter_hunted]

and i wish you do that , will help us a lot

on topic - american's are not fools , they learn from their mistakes , their military planing and spending is 100 times better than pakistan , and a lot of things have changed since vietnam war , they have better weapons , they would just bomb pakistani territory and i don't think any of paf aircraft will even be able to enter pacific ocean.

Ah no worries just bomb the sites from where america fighters takeoff, if those are aircraft carriers just launch a missile and destroy it and no need for PAF go to any where else just defend the territory
and let the enemy come to u.

same thing which Russia did to Napoleon DO U REMEMBER? There are more good planners than u n me in this world.

 

[hunter_hunted]

I think pakistanis are forgetting that they can't threaten US by Nukes....

And who is saying to nuke america Our Nukes dont have that range but in fact let the enemy come to u and play ur game.

 

[VCheng]

How does one have a quick & effective initial war phase against 180 million people, the 7th most populous country in the world? While the US might be able to destroy Pakistan infrastructure, the act will unite (which they haven't done in a long time) the Pakistani people together against a common enemy, & that is the complete opposite of the destruction of the fabric of the society. I think both you & I know that there won't be any Abu Ghraibs & Fallujahs involved here, because you yourself admitted that this will be an air & naval war, any ground troops in Pakistan will get slaughtered, just like they are in Afghanistan, & will ten-fold in case of war against Pakistan. I hope you realize you aren't making a positive case for America when you mention the Abu Ghraibs & the Fallujahs, unless the purpose of your post is to flame & bait.

Once the infrastructure is destroyed, people will have more basic needs on their minds rather than jihad. Simple and predictable fact.

And my intent is not to flame and bait, but to clearly mention that the US version of war will not be perfect, and will have atrocities associated with it, just like in Iraq. The US are no angles, but war is a dirty business and both sides should always keep this in mind.

oh please stop comparing Iraqi army with Pakistani army, Iraqi army didnt have the sophisticated weapons and a good military leadership to deal the onslaught of the allied armies thats y Baghdad Collapsed.

But in case of Pakistan its a different situation, we have will , weapon and a professional army, every one is fed up of Americans now .

And by the will of Allah we will nail the Americans in this arena TIME IS CHANGING MY FRIEND. THEIR ECONOMY IS NOT GOING TO HOLD ON TO SUCH MILITARY OPS.

Yes, the Pakistani Army is better than the Iraqi Army, but will be crushed just as easily. I hope it does not come to this.

Ah no worries just bomb the sites from where america fighters takeoff, if those are aircraft carriers just launch a missile and destroy it and no need for PAF go to any where else just defend the territory
and let the enemy come to u.

same thing which Russia did to Napoleon DO U REMEMBER? There are more good planners than u n me in this world.

How many sites are you going to destroy, and how? Do you really think a US aircraft carrier can be destroyed by "just launching a missile"?

War is to be avoided at all costs, for it is truly a horrible thing.

 

[hunter_hunted]

Do you think anyone will take a stand with you against US?
Wrong expectations bro..

And please tell us who are ANYONE

 

[53fd]

Once the infrastructure is destroyed, people will have more basic needs on their minds rather than jihad. Simple and predictable fact.

Pakistan is an agricultural country, so the people's needs will be fulfilled. However, the people 'thirst' for Jihad against America will not be quenched until America gets a hammering in the region.

Yes, the Pakistani Army is better than the Iraqi Army, but will be crushed just as easily.

Yes, just like they are 'winning' in Afghanistan & Iraq, just like they 'won' in Vietnam. You're one funny guy.

Here's another fun fact for you: the combined populations of Iraq, Afghanistan & Vietnam is 160 million, Pakistan by itself is 180 million. If the Pakistan Army is defeated, have no doubts about what the Pakistani people will do to the 70,000 US troops & their bases in Afghanistan, they will be sent back to the 'Stone Age'.

How many sites are you going to destroy, and how? Do you really think a US aircraft carrier can be destroyed by "just launching a missile"?

It's not that hard to destroy a US aircraft carriers, if Vietnam can do it, it's no big deal for Pakistan to do it either.

War is to avoided at all costs, for it is truly a horrible thing.

Finally, something we agree on

Although we both know that any direct confrontation between the two nations will be started by the US, not Pakistan.

 

[Viva_Viet]

we can make a new Viet Tan. Many Vietnamese hate the communist regime. Before, we believe that we are socialist brothers, but if Communist Party in Vietnam continues to go against China, then maybe we should regard your Communist Party as a fake one, and actually a Fascist Nazi Party, and we will help the Vietnamese people overthrow this fascist Party by setting up a no-fly zone over Hanoi.

Hehe, you're worse than us in spy game, you have No perfect spy,you and CIA lost the game already, just try again if you wanna waste your time and money ^^. We jsut sit and wait for you revolution

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

when a cat gets randy, it is not killed , it is just neutered , I guess US will not attack Pakistan but just disable it with crippling sanctions

And what will 'crippling sanctions' accomplish, in terms of what the US is trying to force Pakistan to do currently, and in terms of 'long term US goals' in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

---------- Post added at 07:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 AM ----------

I thought standard weapon in PA was a G3 where as AK's are more a weapon of choice of terrorists/Taliban in the area.. Freudian slip??

Of late the Ak (or Chinese equivalent) has seen a lot of use by PA troops in FATA, and the weapon is ubiquitous across Pakistan in the hands of gun aficionados.

Can we stop trolling with the inane one liners and smiley's please? It has become your 'signature' post ...

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan is basically an agricultural country, so the people's needs will be fulfilled. However, the people 'thirst' for Jihad against America will not be quenched until America gets a hammering in the region.

You are assuming that it will be possible to grow crops, and that there will be water to drink. Add in other the lack of things like fuel and energy, and the thirst for jihad will take a back seat for sure.

Yes, just like they are 'winning' in Afghanistan & Iraq, just like they 'won' in Vietnam. You're one funny guy.

I am glad you find my comments humorous, but they are rooted in bitter truths.

Here's another fun fact for you: the combined populations of Iraq, Afghanistan & Vietnam is 160 million, Pakistan by itself is 180 million. If the Pakistan Army is defeated, have no doubts about what the Pakistani people will do to the 70,000 US troops & their bases in Afghanistan, they will be sent back to the 'Stone Age'.

Please tell me me what will they do? Walk over to Bagram with sticks and stones to avenge the destruction of the Army?

It's not that hard to destroy a US aircraft carriers, if Vietnam can do it, it's no big deal for Pakistan to do it either.

Did Vietnam ever destroy a US carrier? For that matter, have any carriers been destroyed after WW2? Zero.

Finally, something we agree on

Although we both know that any direct confrontation between the two nations will be started by the US, not Pakistan.

As if Pakistan is blameless if hostilities are inevitable. The record shows otherwise.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Once the infrastructure is destroyed, people will have more basic needs on their minds rather than jihad. Simple and predictable fact.

That is the case in any insurgency, but once the infrastructure is destroyed and people have little in the way of a 'normal life', the desire to join violent resistance groups would become even greater - what else would all those young men and women do? Sit at home, starve and contemplate all that 'destroyed infrastructure'?

The fact of the matter is that a nation of 180 million will throw up more than enough recruits for a large scale violent insurgency to be carried out for years, and the cost on any nation to try and quell that, as seen already in Iraq and Afghanistan, will be enormous, and overshadow the costs incurred in Iraq and Afghanistan so far.

Not to mention that such a situation created by the US in Pakistan would in fact create the very environment, of religious extremists and terrorists having even more recruits to tap into and space to function in, that the US is supposedly seeking to avoid in Afghanistan.

And my intent is not to flame and bait, but to clearly mention that the US version of war will not be perfect, and will have atrocities associated with it, just like in Iraq. The US are no angles, but war is a dirty business and both sides should always keep this in mind.

Again, atrocities and destruction will only leave many to determine they have little to lose in joining a violent resistance.

Yes, the Pakistani Army is better than the Iraqi Army, but will be crushed just as easily. I hope it does not come to this.

It might be, but not before inflicting significant damage regionally which will take a toll on the global economy (which, again, no one in Europe or Asia is interested in), and he subsequent 'occupation', as seen from what has happened in Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan, will be uncontrollable for the US and its allies.

How many sites are you going to destroy, and how? Do you really think a US aircraft carrier can be destroyed by "just launching a missile"?

As many as it takes to ensure the US has no backing from Europe and Asia for its insane hostility and aggression against Pakistan.

War is to be avoided at all costs, for it is truly a horrible thing.

Absolutely - that is the whole point of deterrent/blackmail. Keep the US dogs (warmongers) in check, and there will be no war.

The party that will be responsible for war and atrocities here is the US, not Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

That is the case in any insurgency, but once the infrastructure is destroyed and people have little in the way of a 'normal life', the desire to join violent resistance groups would become even greater - what else would all those young men and women do? Sit at home, starve and contemplate all that 'destroyed infrastructure'?

The fact of the matter is that a nation of 180 million will throw up more than enough recruits for a large scale violent insurgency to be carried out for years, and the cost on any nation to try and quell that, as seen already in Iraq and Afghanistan, will be enormous, and overshadow the costs incurred in Iraq and Afghanistan so far.

Not to mention that such a situation created by the US in Pakistan would in fact create the very environment, of religious extremists and terrorists having even more recruits to tap into and space to function in, that the US is supposedly seeking to avoid in Afghanistan.

Again, atrocities and destruction will only leave many to determine they have little to lose in joining a violent resistance.

It might be, but not before inflicting significant damage regionally which will take a toll on the global economy (which, again, no one in Europe or Asia is interested in), and he subsequent 'occupation', as seen from what has happened in Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan, will be uncontrollable for the US and its allies.


As many as it takes to ensure the US has no backing from Europe and Asia for its insane hostility and aggression against Pakistan.

Absolutely - that is the whole point of deterrent/blackmail. Keep the US dogs (warmongers) in check, and there will be no war.

The party that will be responsible for war and atrocities here is the US, not Pakistan.

I agree it will be horrendous overall, and thus saner minds should prevail to avoid this outcome, no matter who is assigned perceived blame by either side.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You are assuming that it will be possible to grow crops, and that there will be water to drink. Add in other the lack of things like fuel and energy, and the thirst for jihad will take a back seat for sure.

How come that did not work in Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia?

I am glad you find my comments humorous, but they are rooted in bitter truths.

They are rooted in an exaggeration of US abilities and an ignorance of the wars of occupation fought so far - for some reason you expect a US occupation to buck the trend of her previous wars of occupation, and that despite the fact that in Pakistan (unlike Iraq and Afghanistan where the majority could be argued to have hated Saddam and the Taliban) it is the US that is reviled the most and the military that is respected the most.

Please tell me me what will they do? Walk over to Bagram with sticks and stones to avenge the destruction of the Army?

They will do what the Iraqi, Afghan and Somali insurgents and religious extremists have done. There will be no "Anbar awakening' in Pakistan.