US tech workers' body ask Trump to suspend H-1B visa programme amid layoff fears

[jericho]

So I am basically questioning the basic premise of abusing the effect of an inefficient system...If Indian degrees are so bad, Why are these companies outsourcing more than 70% of IT business to India rather than doing in Pakistan or Afghanistan or any other Muslim countries?? Because, based on your estimate, we can produce cheap certificates without any degree....That means, Pakistan and all of your friendly countries are definitely qualified and they are really genuinely impacted due to this huge scam by Indian resources..So how come these outsourcing model is successfully growing each year???

I like how you beat around the bush with your "muslim countries, pakistan afghanistan" nonsense. You still haven't shown any facts.

2018 H1B applicant statistics :
India - 74%
Germany - 0.3%
France - 0.4%
Netherlands - 0.1%
China - 11%
Japan - 0.3%
South Korea - 1.1%

The above proves India has better education than Germany, France, Netherlands, China, South Korea, and Japan combined. Incredible India. What an awesome country.

Nope...you are focussing because you have a specific objective to malign India...It is not like you are trying to fair to be talking about immigration reform process...

You are talking nonsense as usual. Indian media reported this news. You are definitely helping so much in this discussion by dancing around and saying "i dont know"

 

[jericho]

Bottom line I want smart, capable hardworking immigrants coming in, the rest should be sent back.
The how isn’t clear to me.

Below link is a good read:

https://cis.org/Report/Untold-Stories-American-Workers-Replaced-H1B-Visa-Program

"The truth is that it's just cheap labor for corporations who line the pockets of Congress."

"The notion that these H-1B visa holders are specialized is a complete sham. They come out of sham universities in Bangalore with no specializations whatsoever." She said the most insulting part was being forced to train her unqualified replacement. "I was told that I'd only get my severance if I agreed to train my replacement, who was far less qualified than I was, and if I promised not to sue. It's an insult."

"She has worked in IT for 30 years. "I'm a mom to two beautiful girls, and I told them not to go into technology because there is no future for them. We have been taken over and sold out to cheap foreign labor from India." She despises the phrase "shortage of American workers" because she says it is simply untrue."

" She said that these foreign workers are not high skilled, and that even American high school graduates have a higher skillset. "

" He pointed out how poorly the universities in India from which many of the workers come are ranked relative to American universities."

"Decade by decade, India completely took over"

 

[PakFactor]

Below link is a good read:

https://cis.org/Report/Untold-Stories-American-Workers-Replaced-H1B-Visa-Program

"The truth is that it's just cheap labor for corporations who line the pockets of Congress."

"The notion that these H-1B visa holders are specialized is a complete sham. They come out of sham universities in Bangalore with no specializations whatsoever." She said the most insulting part was being forced to train her unqualified replacement. "I was told that I'd only get my severance if I agreed to train my replacement, who was far less qualified than I was, and if I promised not to sue. It's an insult."

"She has worked in IT for 30 years. "I'm a mom to two beautiful girls, and I told them not to go into technology because there is no future for them. We have been taken over and sold out to cheap foreign labor from India." She despises the phrase "shortage of American workers" because she says it is simply untrue."

" She said that these foreign workers are not high skilled, and that even American high school graduates have a higher skillset. "

" He pointed out how poorly the universities in India from which many of the workers come are ranked relative to American universities."

"Decade by decade, India completely took over"

I think we've rested our case on the quality and quantity -- I have yet to see any data from Indians to prove their side.

About 6 years ago MetLife Insurance brought in InfoSys workers to train as accountants their American counter parts trained them, the Indians ended up creating manuals of codes used in insurance and how to apply thing in pricing etc. American's found out in the end they were training their replacement -- fast forward they quality so sub-par they ended up cancelling the contract and bringing back the accounting division to US. I had 1st hand experience as some of my fellow class mates were rehired into their positions with much better pay and a stronger contract. lol

 

[Bilal9]

its lengthy and complicated issue but basically IT companies have been milking the system loopholes to get cheap labour for their work. They have been blackmailing the congress that if these loopholes are closed they will move their business out of the country..while they are lobbying to get the cap increased its kinda a stalemate between IT & congress

The biggest companies in the BPO game stateside, such as IBM, HP and Microsoft, are all in this blackmailing game together, it's like a mafia oligopoly. Doesn't help that the lobbying is even done by Indian Hindus themselves, who are all in this scammy game to defraud and cheat the American native workers out of the technology workplace. If you go to Silicon Valley today, you will see that the Equal Rights Amendment is now a joke. If you are a citizen, and worse yet White, good luck getting a job.

Jobs are reserved for Indian Hindus only, and only H1B's at that (very few US citizens). H1B managers will only hire their fellow H1B cousins from India. There's supposed to be some sort of check by immigration folks on the mix of folks a company hires, but when it comes to Silicon valley, these rules go out the window.

H1b need to be revamped to allow only foreign nationals with advanced degrees from American universities. On top of it you include protections for Americans based on unemployment situation.

There are a lot of crappy Indians masquerading as developers. There are a lot of good ones. The crappy ones being hired is a reflection of deception/dishonesty by shady Indian operators and American corporate lethargy and shoddy hiring practices.

India/Indians are going to win anyway. If you do not give H1b's the entire project will be outsourced abroad. You cannot prevent it given the mobility of capital. India and China are the only countries with the population base and education skills to support outsourcing on this scale. Given concerns about China's intellectual property theft India will be a big beneficary of this outsourcing.

If you think average Indians are bad your average Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Iranian/Egyptian are even worse. I have dealt with all of them.

Well it's all a question of averages - isn't it? There was a time when talented developers from India did come stateside, that was twenty years ago. Good luck finding those folks now. Nowadays you get the bottom of the barrel - these idiots. They can barely speak English.

I find it hard to believe that Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Iranian/Egyptian developers are simply worse compared to Indians because of their national origin. Are you an Indian @nahtanbob? Only an Indian would make these kind of inferences. Coder skill does not belong to any particular country - and one doesn't need to be vegetarian or cow-cola drinker to be a talented developer.

The fact is there are very few Bangladeshi coders anyway - not sure about Pakistani ones. I've met few Bangladeshis who are even interested in this line of work.

Bangladeshi tech workers typically go into website development, animation, CGI, CAD/CAM work or publishing tools such as Photoshop or Vector image editing tools which are single contract delivery projects. They can do this just fine sitting in Bangladesh, no need to come to the US. Also - they make several times the salary of what an Indian coder makes sitting in the US.

Do you really think this thread is about fixing H1B issue?
This thread is about some kids being jealous that they did not get the lollypop whereas someone else, who they perceive as the inferior race, has struggled hard to take away the lollipop from them....



To be honest, H1B is definitely a problem for people like us who are currently a citizen of this country...But does that mean, only Indian are to be blamed??? Heck no...

Your points are valid and rational. The moment US corporates outsourced their work to other countries, we have taken the risk of fall out in the global supply chain problem...But it is not quite easy to mitigate such risk even if the popular sentiment is always to avoid outsourcing..

China in manufacturing and India in IT are prime beneficiaries of the outsourcing process...There is a definite lucrative incentive for the US economy that has restricted US Gov to impose a restriction on it...If you think, there are ways and processes that can be followed to stop this outsourcing and we can perform all manufacturing and IT task in our country here, then feel free to share it...

You are a US Citizen and I am the king of Gondwanaland....riiiiight.

Trying to champion so hard for these H1B schmucks - your Indian cousins in arms.

Thanks for trying to muddy the waters. Close - but no cigar.....

There is no Goddamned right that Indians have in being the sole beneficiaries of US outsourcing. Indians have dominated this field simply by low-class lies, fraud and cheatery using Indian low class BPO companies. That is the only Indian skill I will give a prop to - shameless fraud and cheatery. The H1B population is like a unwelcome ugly scourge on the US tech landscape foisted by these scumbag companies like Infosys and TCS.

The sooner we in the US get rid of this H1B scourge - the better it is. I am glad the process has already started.

You as an H1B don't have to worry about where US companies get their BPO support from next. The rules will change - I guarantee, and Raju Srinivasan with a third-rate education from Annamalai Agricultural University ain't coming back.

In the realm of covert intelligence great game, this is how it works:

Suppose there are two teams 'A' and 'B', each consisting of 1000 people. In team 'A' everybody has an IQ of 100 and in team 'B' 999 people have zero IQ and only one person has an IQ of 120. Team 'B' would be superior to team 'A' because team A's individual IQs don't add up to give individual IQ higher than 100. On the other hand, team B's average is just 0.12 but the highest individual IQ is 120.

So it's not the average that matters but the team's best person's ability that matters. Thousands of 100 points IQ people may work together but they can't come up with an idea better than that of a single 120 IQ person.

- PRTP GWD

Get off the Cow cola please - what in tarnation do you mean by this gibberish? And how is this relevant to the H1B conversation??

Below link is a good read:

https://cis.org/Report/Untold-Stories-American-Workers-Replaced-H1B-Visa-Program

"The truth is that it's just cheap labor for corporations who line the pockets of Congress."

"The notion that these H-1B visa holders are specialized is a complete sham. They come out of sham universities in Bangalore with no specializations whatsoever." She said the most insulting part was being forced to train her unqualified replacement. "I was told that I'd only get my severance if I agreed to train my replacement, who was far less qualified than I was, and if I promised not to sue. It's an insult."

"She has worked in IT for 30 years. "I'm a mom to two beautiful girls, and I told them not to go into technology because there is no future for them. We have been taken over and sold out to cheap foreign labor from India." She despises the phrase "shortage of American workers" because she says it is simply untrue."

" She said that these foreign workers are not high skilled, and that even American high school graduates have a higher skillset. "

" He pointed out how poorly the universities in India from which many of the workers come are ranked relative to American universities."

"Decade by decade, India completely took over"

The sadder fact is, once the skills go over to India, along with the business processes (some are critical) they ain't comin' back from there.

Some American companies are so stupid. You are never to outsource your core business processes that make you money. Some lazy American managers did not heed this warning. Now the Indian BPO's got these companies by 'deez nutz'....by the cajones....increasing billing rates every year ....Sad.

 

[nahtanbob]

Well it's all a question of averages - isn't it? There was a time when talented developers from India did come stateside, that was twenty years ago. Good luck finding those folks now. Nowadays you get the bottom of the barrel - these idiots. They can barely speak English.

I find it hard to believe that Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Iranian/Egyptian developers are simply worse compared to Indians because of their national origin. Are you an Indian @nahtanbob? Only an Indian would make these kind of inferences. Coder skill does not belong to any particular country - and one doesn't need to be vegetarian or cow-cola drinker to be a talented developer.

The fact is there are very few Bangladeshi coders anyway - not sure about Pakistani ones. I've met few Bangladeshis who are even interested in this line of work.

You are contradicting yourself. You are putting your words in my mouth.
Re-read your post.

https://www.iie.org/Why-IIE/Announc...dents-in-the-United-States-Hits-All-Time-High
"China remained the largest source of international students in the United States in 2018/19 with 369,548 students in undergraduate, graduate, non-degree, and optional practical training (OPT) programs, a 1.7 percent increase from 2017/18. India (202,014, +2.9 percent), South Korea (52,250, -4.2 percent), Saudi Arabia (37,080, -16.5 percent), and Canada (26,122, +0.8 percent) round out the top five. "

Who do you think Intel, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple are hiring when they hire Indians ? They hire Indians by the thousands in USA. They have organizations in India with thousands of engineers.

There are pockets of incompetence among non-technology organizations (banks, utilities, government, educational institutions) when it comes to hiring technical folks. Most of the H1b abuse is concentrated there.

In general I detect degree of angst at the inability to compete against Indians and Chinese

@Nilgiri

I like how you beat around the bush with your "muslim countries, pakistan afghanistan" nonsense. You still haven't shown any facts.

2018 H1B applicant statistics :
India - 74%
Germany - 0.3%
France - 0.4%
Netherlands - 0.1%
China - 11%
Japan - 0.3%
South Korea - 1.1%

The above proves India has better education than Germany, France, Netherlands, China, South Korea, and Japan combined. Incredible India. What an awesome country.

It just shows Indians are applying for the h1'bs compared to other countries

 

[ziaulislam]

The biggest companies in the BPO game stateside, such as IBM, HP and Microsoft, are all in this blackmailing game together, it's like a mafia oligopoly. Doesn't help that the lobbying is even done by Indian Hindus themselves, who are all in this scammy game to defraud and cheat the American native workers out of the technology workplace. If you go to Silicon Valley today, you will see that the Equal Rights Amendment is now a joke. If you are a citizen, and worse yet White, good luck getting a job.

Jobs are reserved for Indian Hindus only, and only H1B's at that (very few US citizens). H1B managers will only hire their fellow H1B cousins from India. There's supposed to be some sort of check by immigration folks on the mix of folks a company hires, but when it comes to Silicon valley, these rules go out the window.



Well it's all a question of averages - isn't it? There was a time when talented developers from India did come stateside, that was twenty years ago. Good luck finding those folks now. Nowadays you get the bottom of the barrel - these idiots. They can barely speak English.

I find it hard to believe that Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Iranian/Egyptian developers are simply worse compared to Indians because of their national origin. Are you an Indian @nahtanbob? Only an Indian would make these kind of inferences. Coder skill does not belong to any particular country - and one doesn't need to be vegetarian or cow-cola drinker to be a talented developer.

The fact is there are very few Bangladeshi coders anyway - not sure about Pakistani ones. I've met few Bangladeshis who are even interested in this line of work.

Bangladeshi tech workers typically go into website development, animation, CGI, CAD/CAM work or publishing tools such as Photoshop or Vector image editing tools which are single contract delivery projects. They can do this just fine sitting in Bangladesh, no need to come to the US. Also - they make several times the salary of what an Indian coder makes sitting in the US.



You are a US Citizen and I am the king of Gondwanaland....riiiiight.

Trying to champion so hard for these H1B schmucks - your Indian cousins in arms.

Thanks for trying to muddy the waters. Close - but no cigar.....

There is no Goddamned right that Indians have in being the sole beneficiaries of US outsourcing. Indians have dominated this field simply by low-class lies, fraud and cheatery using Indian low class BPO companies. That is the only Indian skill I will give a prop to - shameless fraud and cheatery. The H1B population is like a unwelcome ugly scourge on the US tech landscape foisted by these scumbag companies like Infosys and TCS.

The sooner we in the US get rid of this H1B scourge - the better it is. I am glad the process has already started.

You as an H1B don't have to worry about where US companies get their BPO support from next. The rules will change - I guarantee, and Raju Srinivasan with a third-rate education from Annamalai Agricultural University ain't coming back.



Get off the Cow cola please - what in tarnation do you mean by this gibberish? And how is this relevant to the H1B conversation??



The sadder fact is, once the skills go over to India, along with the business processes (some are critical) they ain't comin' back from there.

Some American companies are so stupid. You are never to outsource your core business processes that make you money. Some lazy American managers did not heed this warning. Now the Indian BPO's got these companies by 'deez nutz'....by the cajones....increasing billing rates every year ....Sad.

per capita there are more pakistani and farrmore bangladeshi coders..just not in USA, as you knwo its manipulation by certain companies to which the tech companies outsource the labour hiring

 

[Bilal9]

If you think average Indians are bad your average Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Iranian/Egyptian are even worse. I have dealt with all of them.

In general I detect degree of angst at the inability to compete against Indians and Chinese

These two statements from you made the case clear for your bias. You are a dedicated supporter of Indians (specifically Sanghis) and their H1B scam game. In fact you might be an Indian yourself - who knows? Especially going by how unpatriotic your statements are. Makes one question these US flags on your handle.

I have certainly heard this from senior Pakistani members in PDF.

There is no 'angst'.

The only concern that exists is the degree of scammery that exists with Indian BPO companies so far foisting on American corporates on consistently replacing locals with Indians. Indian tech professionals are no more talented than people educated in any other country in the subcontinent or Asia. Certainly not these days, with the bottom-of-the-barrel garbage we have been getting lately.

To suggest otherwise paints you as one with a Sanghi narrative. What special brain power do Indians have over other types of populace? This would be near comical if it wasn't suggested as seriously like you did....

And to tag that Sanghi cockroach paints you as Indian-supporter (or even Indian) as well.

You are in my ignore list now - won't waste anymore time with an Indian Sanghi supporter....

 

[Nilgiri]

You are contradicting yourself. You are putting your words in my mouth.
Re-read your post.

https://www.iie.org/Why-IIE/Announc...dents-in-the-United-States-Hits-All-Time-High
"China remained the largest source of international students in the United States in 2018/19 with 369,548 students in undergraduate, graduate, non-degree, and optional practical training (OPT) programs, a 1.7 percent increase from 2017/18. India (202,014, +2.9 percent), South Korea (52,250, -4.2 percent), Saudi Arabia (37,080, -16.5 percent), and Canada (26,122, +0.8 percent) round out the top five. "

Who do you think Intel, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple are hiring when they hire Indians ? They hire Indians by the thousands in USA. They have organizations in India with thousands of engineers.

There are pockets of incompetence among non-technology organizations (banks, utilities, government, educational institutions) when it comes to hiring technical folks. Most of the H1b abuse is concentrated there.

In general I detect degree of angst at the inability to compete against Indians and Chinese

@Nilgiri

It just shows Indians are applying for the h1'bs compared to other countries

Please that drama-princess suffers from India-derangement-syndrome.

She will literally bray (instantly) someone is Indian and "masquerade artist" for even deigning a simple "you are straw-manning" reply:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hous...pharmaceutical-industry.657225/#post-12155393

and as you can see she needs a full firm slap from webby to do half baked "apology" for her princessing.

She is thus totally non credible on this subject, and probably works a typical low paid office job under an Indian boss it seems (and may have been fired by such before for gross incompetence and whatever else, a hallmark of her community at any level). So she has to vent out the feewings here.

Its no wonder she is super upset about how her community does w.r.t Indians or pretty much anyone else....and the level of excuses and tears that are needed to compensate.

 

[nahtanbob]

Please that drama-princess suffers from India-derangement-syndrome.

She will literally bray (instantly) someone is Indian and "masquerade artist" for even deigning a simple "you are straw-manning" reply:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hous...pharmaceutical-industry.657225/#post-12155393

and as you can see she needs a full firm slap from webby to do half baked "apology" for her princessing.

She is thus totally non credible on this subject, and probably works a typical low paid office job under an Indian boss it seems (and may have been fired by such before for gross incompetence and whatever else, a hallmark of her community at any level). So she has to vent out the feewings here.

Its no wonder she is super upset about how her community does w.r.t Indians or pretty much anyone else....and the level of excuses and tears that are needed to compensate.

competition from Chinese and Indian is something the whole world is getting used to.
apologies to @Bilal9

 

[mig25]

Perfect Sanghi line of thinking.

And Sanghi spotted.

Sanghis are perpetually looking to find reasons for assigning respectability to a toilet-less nation, the champion of open defecation among all countries.

Don't leave out ancient pre-Roman Indian achievements like air travel, plastic surgery etc.

@UKBengali , @Homo Sapiens

You know something tells me you did look up journals and patent lists that left you embarrassed and maybe even a feeling of you and your kind being low achievers. I hope your post helped you redeem some of that lost pride.

When Pres. Trump raised the H1B salary limit to $100,000 a year, he did squash these fraud practices somewhat but not entirely. Before this, the garbage that was coming in for $60,000 a year salaries, were horrendous.

When was that? you are not very well informed, are you?

 

[aryadravida]

They should shut it down these damn Indians abuse this system to much and their IT Workers are substandard below par. I have friends working in Abbive, Nokia Data Centers, etc., and the stories are scary as to how incompetent they are.

Are Indian IT workers really sub standard?I am not into IT..I don't have much knowledge about it...I am.sincerely asking you to find out the truth

 

[PakFactor]

Are Indian IT workers really sub standard?I am not into IT..I don't have much knowledge about it...I am.sincerely asking you to find out the truth

I have found the truth and stand by my statement as I deal with professionals (upper management) on a daily basis. The World Bank also conducted a study and came to the same conclusion as well.

And it’s funny you say you have no knowledge and yet asking me to find out the truth. Have you see my link posted in this thread and others in the thread who deal with IT.

 

[Nilgiri]

You know something tells me you did look up journals and patent lists that left you embarrassed and maybe even a feeling of you and your kind being low achievers. I hope your post helped you redeem some of that lost pride.


When was that? you are not very well informed, are you?

We actually solve the problems on the ground.

He is just mad that his country only does so on paper (imagine claiming 100% ODF while having basic handwashing hygiene stuck at 35% because govt forgot to fudge the number there):

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/swit...ay-corona-19-modi.659869/page-2#post-12206691

The reality of their lot comes up again and again in neutral credible setting (like say USPTO, EPO, science papers etc as you mention), so he is plenty mad about that....forget basic socioeconomic profile and data in US census of his lot compared to Indians.

Imagine hating India so much, but being stuck with an Indian boss that constantly brings up his incompetence when he goes begging to him for a raise. He has let on he is typical wage slave schmuck in cali office somewhere...so do the math + logic.

You have to understand what PDF is (purpose wise) for most of the people that come here to vent frustrations from reality.

 

[HAIDER]

Because use of that Gangu churan Sundar pachai able make what's chrome browser today. Do you know even entire chrome ecosystem was his idea and that's why he is CEO of google of course he jumped at CEO post for low wages
Also 50% of Motels are being owned by Indian origins in USA yes first they get own Motel and then they heir their self for low wage. I am so happy that all top companies are paying pakistanis highest and all of them are at top position. Please leave small low wages job of CEO, CTO and CFO for Poor Indians as you guys don't want those jobs because of low wages.
Thank you!

I have noticed majority Indians are best in butt kissssing... and are very good subordinates ..

 

[niao78]

I have noticed majority Indians are best in butt kissssing... and are very good subordinates ..

So according to you CEO is butt kisser ? Also owning 50% motels and highway store is butt kisser ? Yeah owner kiss employees butt right ? Wow you pakistan have own wet dreams