US puts its faith in Pakistan's military

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Obviously someone wanted this spin on things out there. This is just like a New York Times "leak" during the Bush years, except, here, to serve the PA and/or Afghan Taliban agenda, I suppose. Most likely it has some measure of truth to it. But, also, lot's of spin .... Hard to know which is which.

I think the Article depicts good extent of truth . However i still dough that Zardari would go any where . Although he would be eventually wriped off from his powers But would stay as a President of state.
The Establishment and the Bureaucracy dosent wants a shining person at President's or the Primeminester's Seat . They would be happy to work with a person who would agree to their will with his Head down and PM Gilani(With Full Reins) along with President Zardari( wripped off from excersizing 58-2B and with a continuous threat from Judiciary) would work just fine for them .

Overly Intelligent and vibrant leaders are unacceptable in Pakistani System . To some extent it happens in US and many other countries around the Globe Directly or Indirectly .

 

[Chanakyaa]

Are u kidding me, Democracy works only to please the powerfull for votes in next elections.

There would have been no Babri mosque had there been milatry rule, in Army there is a dicussions based on facts without pleasing any one as there are lives on line if they make dicisions based on personal gains.

They Army rule would have not allowed samjhota train to happen as it would have not stood for disgruntled and inept soldiers and would have taken actions to difuse the situation by not only firing those but keeping an eye on them.

Milatry would have, had they been in power to not allow attacks on its own people's holy place such as Darbar sahib, as they would have studied the impact it will take on its minority group and would have tried ngotiations instead. Indra Gandhi went over board due manily to her inability to forsee the consequences, but milatry would have calculated the impact it will have. I know that u will mention red mosque, from what I understand from the facts, Mushraf started listening to civilians who were looking for blood, he should have stayed with milatry dicipline and acted as a milatry commander and not listen to these nincompoops.

Gujrat would have never happened as the Army would have gotten rid of likes of bal thackerey. Who used extremists by his prejudicial speaches and created an environment of anger among gaulible and thugs.

Politicians are shifty and never tell the truth they please the gaulibles and answer to please them and never do the right thing, lie and cheat to win the end game of elections. on the other hand Army has to, because lives depend on their dicision.

It was milatry ruler who brought freedom to the press in Pakistan as during his rule we have more than 30 tv chalels, comapratively during rule by politicians rule, there was only one GOP chanel controlled by them.

Lahore was same old same old as long as pak was ruled by politicians , only marginal development, during Army rule the city has changed to an international cosmopolitan city and sky line has changed tremendously for the better. there are so many high rises that the Lahore of yesterday is gone and Lahore of today is a modern city.


It were always the milatry chiefs who went to India to discuss problems, politician never did it as they never wanted peace and were motivated by the greed of power and the not in peace, have no guts and courage to talk about peace, as they were and are not intrested in saving lives but in politics.

See it is the dicipline that makes milatry better than politicians as they know the facts about life and death, but politicians are only interested in re-elections and human lifes and facts means niothing to them.

When you ask questions to a politicians he will be motivated by his desire to win votes in next elections, whereas an Army answer will be based on truth and facts as he knows the consequences could cost lives.

So diciplined people would be better rulers as they will think of consequences as compare to polticians who would be interested only in re-election and not in saving lives.

So Indians think clearly and bring in Army for once and u will see lots of good actions rather than continous bickering and minimal progress. I am sure had Army been there, India would have progressed much more, Indian will never know till they never tried it.

Let me tell you, try it you will like it, and don't knock it till you try it.

Britich Rule was as Good as a Military Rule , Then Why need Independence.

I am sure had Army been there, India would have progressed much more, Indian will never know till they never tried it.

Well Who Has progressed More in ?

• Economy
• Military
• Out Sourcing
• Diplomatic Relations
• Science and Technology [ Including Space, Medicine, Bio tech ]
• Best in the World IT Industry

+++++....

Just Name ONE even ONE area where pakistan has progressed More than India.


Friend, Military Rule Thinks only About Guns... Democracy Thinks More about Food.
Out %GDP Spendings in Military are a direct proof of That.

Pakistan is full of Talent, Your Nuclear Programme is an example.. The Cricket sucess is another .. You have it . But IMO , in my Strong Openion... [ in ur words... ]

I am sure had Democracy been there, Pakistan would have progressed much more, Pakistan will never know till they never tried it... Heartily.

Plus u accept it or NOT a Military Face of Pakistan cannot Stand tall in Global Arena.... It has to be the face of a Common Pakistani ... the Democratic Pakistan.

 

[asq]

XiniX.

Pakistan has been made an scape goat and been used for the good nature.

India conspired with Mujib and trained Muki Buhini 5 years prior to the elections in Pakistan, instead of becomming a good neighbour india supported saparatists, armed them and trained them.

we were foced into many wars, had to redirect all our resources to fight, if India had been in our place, it would have neverstood a chance.

From day one India forcibaly took Kashmir, Hyderabad Junagarh and areas suppose to be part of Pakistan including Ferozepur and its surroundings.

during 50s our 5 years plan was borrowed by south Koreans, look at them today.

There is no country on the face of this world that had to go through such hell created by its neighbours and enemies and survived, and we shall survive again, I can bet on that.

without having to sound paranoind, i can say that there is conspiracy against Pakistan for it having the nuclear weapons for obvious reasons.

indian weapons are accepted, european weapons are accepted, Russian weapons are accepted, even a small stat can have it, but Pakistan cannot have, we have to prove ourselves worthy of these weapons each day of each year , we were insulted when we were trying to make them telling us that we donot have the smarts to make such a sophisticated weapon. And there are people who tell us today that we will never have Democracy and develop to be a modern Nation.

Let me tell u a secret that u will not like, but it is a fact.

If Democracy is the only way for a country to progress than China and Russia would have never made it as educationaly and industrially progressed Nations, take your Democracy and run with it, we the pakistani will find our niche and set up whatever works for us. it will be ours, and we will work with in our own time and our own way.

We donot have as many poor as India has, we donot have so many people homeless sleeping on side walks. we have far less than India, once we rid of our enemies we shall come out as the best, we been put through the ringer and have come out smiling and we will do it again, cause we have moral high ground.

Insha Allah by the grace granted to us by Allah.S.W.T.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Gentleman if you n the people of pakistan have similar openion and supreme faith in military rule i only wish that Allah may give u prosperity n peace on this path.
If you can b like china awesome, but i wish we dont have anothe North Korea.

But i sincerely suggest, it takes far more than Military rule to follow the success path of China.

 

[MilesTogo]

self-delete

 

[TruthSeeker]

US should have put its faith in Pakistan Military a long time ago to have solved the Afghan problem today. But having an ever green shoot-first-act-later bedrock policy, the US now is scratching its head on what the Pakistan Army did right in Swat and SWA while they have been failing and banging their collective ISAF heads in Afghanistan without even getting any results until today!

Foreign observers of Amerika have often noted that the Americans will exhaust all possibilities before, finally, doing the right (intelligent) thing. Since this is noted so often there must be some truth to it. I think that the American character has a certain "can do" activism, a bias for "action", that plunges into problems. We just have to "do something"! Very impatient and very self-confident. While this approach causes some (or many) blunders, in the end it moves the ball forward. I'm sure many here disagree, but a case can be made that the American "can do" attitude is needed more often than not.

 

[SMC]

Britich Rule was as Good as a Military Rule , Then Why need Independence.



Well Who Has progressed More in ?

• Economy
• Military
• Out Sourcing
• Diplomatic Relations
• Science and Technology [ Including Space, Medicine, Bio tech ]
• Best in the World IT Industry

+++++....

Just Name ONE even ONE area where pakistan has progressed More than India.


Friend, Military Rule Thinks only About Guns... Democracy Thinks More about Food.
Out %GDP Spendings in Military are a direct proof of That.

Pakistan is full of Talent, Your Nuclear Programme is an example.. The Cricket sucess is another .. You have it . But IMO , in my Strong Openion... [ in ur words... ]

I am sure had Democracy been there, Pakistan would have progressed much more, Pakistan will never know till they never tried it... Heartily.

Plus u accept it or NOT a Military Face of Pakistan cannot Stand tall in Global Arena.... It has to be the face of a Common Pakistani ... the Democratic Pakistan.

Please, Pakistan has enjoyed economic growth during several eras. Economic growth has not just been limited to india. Pakistan has had several years of excellent growth. If Pakistan had no economic growth why is that economies of both countries are still equal relative to their size.

Additionally, Pakistan has done better than india in poverty reduction.

Military - india has more money and population, thus the better military. Pakistan for its size and wealth has an excellent military.

Out sourcing - again india's size works in its favour. few companies have out sourced to Pakistan, however due to sheer size of india and the greater amount of skills available (however no greater quality of skills, rather just quantity), its a better idea to out source to india.

Science and technology - how india has exactly done better. Space is not something Pakistan is interested in.

IT industry - again the size works in the favour. Pakistan has a young IT industry which is doing well for a country of Pakistan's size.

Additionally, the only growth ever seen by Pakistan has been in military era. Don't delude yourself into thinking that india is so much better in all these areas.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Please, Pakistan has enjoyed economic growth during several eras. Economic growth has not just been limited to india. Pakistan has had several years of excellent growth. If Pakistan had no economic growth why is that economies of both countries are still equal relative to their size.

Additionally, Pakistan has done better than india in poverty reduction.

Military - india has more money and population, thus the better military. Pakistan for its size and wealth has an excellent military.

Out sourcing - again india's size works in its favour. few companies have out sourced to Pakistan, however due to sheer size of india and the greater amount of skills available (however no greater quality of skills, rather just quantity), its a better idea to out source to india.

Science and technology - how india has exactly done better. Space is not something Pakistan is interested in.

IT industry - again the size works in the favour. Pakistan has a young IT industry which is doing well for a country of Pakistan's size.

Additionally, the only growth ever seen by Pakistan has been in military era. Don't delude yourself into thinking that india is so much better in all these areas.

You see I am not going to debate on what Pakistan has achieved.
I personally feel That Except for China and that too coz it has ample of natural resources, Has got extra ordinary success even though its not a democracy.

USSR has fundamentally failed, we all know that.
Development is not judged only within the developments in Military Domain, Its ONLY about the happiness of the people.

Now, The Important point i want to stress is, keeping the nationalism aside dodnt you think You must have a share to decide what happens in your country ?
That You may have power to Choose who rule upon You ?
That You your self may go ahead and seek support of people and become the PM ?

Democracy as defined = "of the people, By the people , For the people" .. the stress is on people.

I dont know whats inside a common pakistani heart, You may say we r happy (which i dont suspect ) but keeping nationality aside ,
Do Pakistanis really favor Military Rule with all powers in ONE Hand ?
If yes. Fine . As it had been for the past decades but after the term each Military Ruler has later been cursed in Pakistan for wrong deeds.

Will People of Pakistan still Sleep and US Drones will keep attcking coz Military and Military controlled Gov is Supporting it ?
The 26/11 Outrage was not that of GoI, but Mainly due to People of India, they got so Angered that GoI had no option but to take hard Steps.

Thats the power of Democracy.
Till the Common Pakistani doesnt fight for its Right Nothing will Change, Musharraf's will come n Go.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Gentleman if you n the people of pakistan have similar openion and supreme faith in military rule i only wish that Allah may give u prosperity n peace on this path.
If you can b like china awesome, but i wish we dont have anothe North Korea.

But i sincerely suggest, it takes far more than Military rule to follow the success path of China.

I don't think the people of Pakistan overall want 'military rule' - the opinion polls at least do not show that - but they do want 'good governance' i.e a government that delivers on economic, infrastructural, and justice issues.

At the moment everyone is frustrated with the economic slowdown, power crises, sugar crises, terrorism (not the governments fault on the last one), and they see the current GoP as being inept and led by an inept crook (Zardari).

The Army on the other hand is enjoying perhaps the highest approval ratings of any institution, up there with the media and judiciary. I think that when people correlate dissatisfaction with the GoP with the approval of the Armed Forces (part of their high approval ratings are BTW precisely because Gen. Kiyani has pulled the Army out of the political sphere), there is a tendency to think that it means support for 'Military Rule'. Certainly in some cases it does, but I think that overall it is an expression of frustration over why the politicians cannot get their act together like the Army has done.

 

[forcetrip]

Do you not see what happens when "we" choose who comes to power. At least some resistance has been born to actually get away with eating this country from within and thats the only positive that I have seen so far. Pakistan is a young country and just like responsible parent wont let kids play with fire, we should not let retarded people come to power. We should choose the lesser evil.

 

[Sinnerman108]

One of the first lesson of life I learned was never to listen to a whore....
she offers services for a fixed time, enjoy and forget.
US ... Friendship .... Trust
all three are very very separate concepts with NOTHING in common...
Its a capitalist country... CAPITAL is what they want and go with.

 

[asq]

You see I am not going to debate on what Pakistan has achieved.
I personally feel That Except for China and that too coz it has ample of natural resources, Has got extra ordinary success even though its not a democracy.

USSR has fundamentally failed, we all know that.
Development is not judged only within the developments in Military Domain, Its ONLY about the happiness of the people.

Now, The Important point i want to stress is, keeping the nationalism aside dodnt you think You must have a share to decide what happens in your country ?
That You may have power to Choose who rule upon You ?
That You your self may go ahead and seek support of people and become the PM ?

Democracy as defined = "of the people, By the people , For the people" .. the stress is on people.

I dont know whats inside a common pakistani heart, You may say we r happy (which i dont suspect ) but keeping nationality aside ,
Do Pakistanis really favor Military Rule with all powers in ONE Hand ?
If yes. Fine . As it had been for the past decades but after the term each Military Ruler has later been cursed in Pakistan for wrong deeds.

Will People of Pakistan still Sleep and US Drones will keep attcking coz Military and Military controlled Gov is Supporting it ?
The 26/11 Outrage was not that of GoI, but Mainly due to People of India, they got so Angered that GoI had no option but to take hard Steps.

Thats the power of Democracy.
Till the Common Pakistani doesnt fight for its Right Nothing will Change, Musharraf's will come n Go.

What makes u think that avarage Pakistani is not willing able and ready to fight, we are ready to fight but not to threats that are issued by so called Democraticaly elected people who hoard,who suport occupiers of properties, (Qabza group) who steal all the forieng aid money and put it in swiss banks.

I only like to vote for those who are proved to be like our saints, Baba bhulay shah, Baba Farid and Hazarat Data Gunj Bukhsh, but they are not among us, so we should continue to look for those kinds to elect and make them our Leaders, not these nincompoops.

They allpossess billions of rupees when avarage Pakistani makes 5000 rupees a month, hardly the money to feed himself let alone feed and educate his family.

I am sure it is same in India, but Indian have the advantage of foriegn aid and investments without any strings, on the other hand Pakistan is always under microscope and is picked on every which way, I don't know why?

But as Pakistanis we have to come together and make Pakistan a success, we have the talaents to do it, unlike India we will not be handed every thing on a silver plater, and no questions asked.