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US & Pakistan Dispute and Tensions over Haqqani group

Mullen Asserts Pakistani Role in Attack on U.S. Embassy
Philip Scott Andrews/The New York Times

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, left, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen, right, testified to the Senate Armed Services Committee about ongoing strategy in Afghanistan and Iraq.
By ELISABETH BUMILLER and JANE PERLEZ
Published: September 22, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/w...s-pakistani-role-in-attack-on-us-embassy.html

WASHINGTON — Pakistan’s intelligence agency aided the insurgents who attacked the American Embassy in Kabul last week, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Senate on Thursday.


In comments that were the first to directly link Pakistan’s powerful spy agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, with an assault on the United States, Admiral Mullen went further than any other American official in blaming the ISI for undermining the American military effort in Afghanistan. The United States has long said that the ISI has close links to Afghan insurgents, particularly the Haqqani network, but no one has been as blunt as Admiral Mullen.

Admiral Mullen is to retire at the end of this month, and coming from him the statements carried exceptional weight. He has been the American military official who has led the effort for years to improve cooperation with the Pakistanis. But relations have reached a nadir since American commandoes killed Osama bin Laden deep inside Pakistan in May. Pakistani officials were not told of the raid in advance, and questions remain about whether Pakistani intelligence was sheltering the Qaeda leader.

The attack on the American embassy, and ISI support for the Haqqani network — which also forms one of the most lethal parts of the insurgency attacking American forces in Afghanistan — is the latest point of tension.

Pakistan’s intelligence agency has supported the Haqqanis as a way to further Pakistani influence in Afghanistan. On Thursday Admiral Mullen made clear that support extended to increasingly high-profile attacks aimed directly at the United States.

“With ISI support, Haqqani operatives planned and conducted that truck bomb attack, as well as the assault on our embassy,” Admiral Mullen told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. “We also have credible evidence that they were behind the June 28th attack against the Inter-Continental Hotel in Kabul and a host of other smaller but effective operations.”

In short, he said, “the Haqqani network acts as a veritable arm of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Agency.”

The truck bomb attack that Admiral Mullen referred to occurred at a NATO outpost south of Kabul on Sept. 10, when a cargo vehicle packed with explosives killed at least five people and wounded 77 coalition troops. The toll of wounded was one of the worst for foreign forces in a single episode in the 10-year-old war.

It is unclear what steps American officials are prepared to take against the Haqqanis, but the increasingly strong public statements indicated that reining in the group has become a more urgent priority as the United States looks to withdraw from Afghanistan and leave a stable country and viable government behind.

On Thursday the Pakistani Interior Minister, Rehman Malik, said his government would “not allow” an American operation aimed at the Haqqani network in North Waziristan. ;)

Mr. Malik seemed to indicate that Obama administration officials had threatened Tuesday in their meetings in Washington with the head of Pakistan’s intelligence agency, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, that American troops were prepared to cross the border from Afghanistan into North Waziristan to attack the Haqqani militants.

“The Pakistan nation will not allow the boots on our ground, never,” Mr. Malik said in an interview with Reuters. “Our government is already cooperating with the U.S. — but they also must respect our sovereignty.”

In a meeting in Islamabad on Wednesday with the head of the F.B.I., Robert S. Mueller III, Mr. Malik said that the Haqqani network was not present in Pakistan, a statement that American officials said they found disingenuous.

In his remarks to Pakistani reporters on Wednesday, Mr. Malik said that if the United States provided information on the whereabouts of the Haqqani network in Pakistan, Pakistani “law enforcement” would go after it. :rolleyes:

In making such claims, Mr. Malik was ignoring several years of effort by senior American military officials and diplomats to persuade the Pakistani Army to launch operations against the Haqqani militants, who are well known to American and Pakistani military officials to be centered around Miram Shah, the main town in North Waziristan.

The Pakistani Army has a base in North Waziristan not far from compounds of the Haqqani network.

Since the attack on the American Embassy in Kabul, Pakistani military officials have told Pakistani reporters that it is up to the Americans to deal with the Haqqani fighters inside Afghanistan.

The Pakistanis argue that they do not have sufficient troops in North Waziristan to take on the Haqqanis. But aside from the main Pakistani objective of keeping the Haqqanis as a friendly force in a post-war Afghanistan, some Pakistani military experts say the Pakistani Army is reluctant to fight the Haqqanis because there was concern that the army would not prevail against them.


No decisions had been made on what actions the Obama administration might take against the Haqqani network in North Waziristan, a senior American official said Thursday.

The options would be discussed at a National Security Council meeting at the White House on Monday, he said.

Admiral Mullen testified alongside Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta, who told the committee that the attack on the embassy and the assassination this week of Burhanuddin Rabbani, the leader of Afghanistan’s High Peace Council and a former Afghan president, were “a sign of weakness in the insurgency.” He cast the attacks as signs that the Taliban had shifted to high-profile targets in an effort to disrupt the progress the American military has made.

“Over all, we judge this change in tactics to be a result of a shift in momentum in our favor,” Mr. Panetta said.

No one has yet claimed responsibility for the attack on Mr. Rabbani.

Despite his optimistic remarks about American progress, Mr. Panetta said the American military had a difficult job ahead and had to do better in preventing the insurgents from carrying out raids like the one on the embassy. “While overall violence in Afghanistan is trending down — and down substantially in areas where we concentrated the surge — we must be more effective in stopping these attacks and limiting the ability of insurgents to create perceptions of decreasing security,” Mr. Panetta said.

The hearing, called by the panel to review American military policy in Iraq and Afghanistan, was the first for Mr. Panetta as defense secretary.

Like Mr. Panetta, Admiral Mullen sought to cast the recent attacks in Afghanistan in the best possible light. “We must not attribute more weight to these attacks than they deserve,” Admiral Mullen said. “They are serious and significant, but they do not represent a sea change in the odds of military success.”

Admiral Mullen voiced a stern warning to Pakistan, who he said was undermining its own interests as well as the American interest in fighting terror networks in the region.


“In choosing to use violent extremism as an instrument of policy, the government of Pakistan, and most especially the Pakistani Army and ISI, jeopardizes not only the prospect of our strategic partnership but Pakistan’s opportunity to be a respected nation with legitimate regional influence,” he said. “They may believe that by using these proxies, they are hedging their bets or redressing what they feel is an imbalance in regional power. But in reality, they have already lost that bet.


“By exporting violence, they’ve eroded their internal security and their position in the region. They have undermined their international credibility and threatened their economic well-being.”

But he said he did not believe he had wasted his time by putting so much effort into improving ties with Pakistan’s government.

“I’ve done this because I believe that a flawed and difficult relationship is better than no relationship at all,” he said. “Some may argue I’ve wasted my time, that Pakistan is no closer to us than before, and may now have drifted even further away. I disagree. Military cooperation again is warming.”

Why are you spamming the same thing over & over again?
 
Another thing to note is that it took the US like 3-4 days to say "They did it". It even takes more days for India to jump to conclusions.

The motive behind this is just to pile up more pressure - The US's relationship is with the COAS and he's not buying the US line and worse still, the Pakistani public is responding in nationalist sentiment - is this furthering US policy or goals?
 
You think Haqqanis would be sitting in one place? It isn't as easy as US thinks.

They might wanna start with the incompetent Haqqani in Washington......
 
Another thing to note is that it took the US like 3-4 days to say "They did it". It even takes more days for India to jump to conclusions.

Pretty easy to work out where people are from when they carry mobile phones full of Pakistani numbers. If you want to keep where your from a secret dont have Pasha's office on speed dial.

6 Phones recovered, the only question is why? Some one wanted the blame to fall on Pakistan or some one in Pakistan is sending the message we dont care that you know.
 
Pretty easy to work out where people are from when they carry mobile phones full of Pakistani numbers. If you want to keep where your from a secret dont have Pasha's office on speed dial.

6 Phones recovered, the only question is why? Some one wanted the blame to fall on Pakistan or some one in Pakistan is sending the message we dont care that you know.


This is not a serious post Vassanti - after all the only thing we can work out, is that there are pakistani numbers on the cell phones - and given the fact that daily thousands of people come and go and have relations and contacts, well, that's really all we can say with certainty.

Additionally, It is indeed curious that suiciders go into operations with cell phones, one then should not be surprised that they did not take their Pakistani ID cards and home addresses with them as well, maybe these too will be "recovered" -- All a bit too convenient for a particular point of view, but then I find things out of the ordinary to be suspicious.
 
They are doing it already, but it isn't making any difference in Afghanistan, is it? They only have 2 cards, & they have played one of their cards: drone strikes. The other is cutting off financial assistance to Pakistan. There have been talks in the US Senate & Congress for quite some time to cut off aid to Pakistan. That is the only thing they can do. But then, they will lose complete influence over Pakistan, & will be the biggest losers. Hence, they won't try to lose this (financial assistance) card, & will try to pressure Pakistan to act against the Haqqanis. They know they've got Pakistan over a hold with the 'financial assistance' card, but once they play that card, they will be the biggest losers.

Hi,

Gen Kiyani and Gen Pasha are now being publicly slapped around by Gen Mullen and Leon Panetta----.

The incursion in abbotabad saw the pak millitary---that is air force and ground faces fell on their faces----the negativity that brought onto the millitary might of pakistan cannot be reversed.

Through all this---the only thing that is visible is HOW BIG OF A COWARD Gen Kiyani is-----his army and his nation has been slammed and dragged through hell and he is still the proverbial QUIET GUY----what a despicable coward----.

At least Musharraf could stand upto the americans and give them a piece of his mind on public tv----then there is Gen Pasha-----a general with an ALWAYS SCOWL on his face-----.

Pakistan has suffered tremendously during the tenure of these two generals in the public trust world wide----and for some strange reason only known to the pakistanis---we still love these incompetent generals.
 
This is not a serious post Vassanti - after all the only thing we can work out, is that there are pakistani numbers on the cell phones - and given the fact that daily thousands of people come and go and have relations and contacts, well, that's really all we can say with certainty.

Additionally, It is indeed curious that suiciders go into operations with cell phones, one then should not be surprised that they did not take their Pakistani ID cards and home addresses with them as well, maybe these too will be "recovered" -- All a bit too convenient for a particular point of view, but then I find things out of the ordinary to be suspicious.

Thats part of what i was saying, all 6 recovered all 6 full of Pakistani numbers, i could imagine one or two recovered perhaps one or two damaged but 6 intact phones recovered just didnt sound right. Thats why i said,

Some one wanted the blame to fall on Pakistan or some one in Pakistan is sending the message we dont care that you know.

Some one wanted to make sure it was seen as a "Pakistani opperation" the harder question is who and why.
 
forget a few +92 numbers, the real smoking gun will be a plastic wrapper of naz pan masala --with 'made in Pakistan' written on the back

---------- Post added at 03:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 AM ----------

The motive behind this is just to pile up more pressure - The US's relationship is with the COAS and he's not buying the US line and worse still, the Pakistani public is responding in nationalist sentiment - is this furthering US policy or goals?

would not any other country's people react the same?

Pakistan's reaction is a very normal one. The US has to realize that Pakistan will not and should not do everything that NATO asks them to do, especially not blindly.

same way they wont heed to any of our concerns....we've talked about Bramdagh Bugti in Kabul since 2006 and they took no actions.

so that about sums it all
 
The motive behind this is just to pile up more pressure - The US's relationship is with the COAS and he's not buying the US line and worse still, the Pakistani public is responding in nationalist sentiment - is this furthering US policy or goals?

It is only a matter of time where the pressure reaches the buckling point, on one side or the other.

I know which side I'd bet on.

However, the mental inbreeding of the minds here, blinkered by the green colored glasses, will never be able to recognize that point until it is upon them and too late to reverse.

Hate me all you want for saying this, but events will soon prove me right, like before.
 
It is only a matter of time where the pressure reaches the buckling point, on one side or the other.

I know which side I'd bet on.

However, the mental inbreeding of the minds here, blinkered by the green colored glasses, will never be able to recognize that point until it is upon them and too late to reverse.

Hate me all you want for saying this, but events will soon prove me right, like before.

Well, you could be right, no doubt about it. But the US has gone on for years for Pakistan to stop supporting many of these groups, but it hasn't worked. I doubt it will. We'll see with time. I think it's pretty obvious to the Pakistani Establishment what the motivations of these statements are.
 
It is only a matter of time where the pressure reaches the buckling point, on one side or the other.

I know which side I'd bet on.

However, the mental inbreeding of the minds here, blinkered by the green colored glasses, will never be able to recognize that point until it is upon them and too late to reverse.

Hate me all you want for saying this, but events will soon prove me right, like before.

Easy there - you may be 100% on the money -- in which case the Pakistan army and Air Force will eat crow and the curses of the Pakistani people But VC, something big is going on, it's on a regional scale - if I were an American, I would be concerned.
 
Easy there - you may be 100% on the money -- in which case the Pakistan army and Air Force will eat crow and the curses of the Pakistani people But VC, something big is going on, it's on a regional scale - if I were an American, I would be concerned.

It is no longer a matter of eating crow and hearing curses.

This is soon going to evolve into the defining existential issue for Pakistan, and all the pseudo-bravado of stiffly starched uniforms and the puffery of owning "atum bumbs" will be blown away in the winds of time like the fluff that it always was in reality.

I am now an American citizen, and I would hate to see this happen to the land of my birth, but I know my attempts to avert it will be futile, for most people here are so profoundly blind since they do not wish to see what I know is correct.
 
Easy there - you may be 100% on the money -- in which case the Pakistan army and Air Force will eat crow and the curses of the Pakistani people But VC, something big is going on, it's on a regional scale - if I were an American, I would be concerned.

explain your concerns
 
It is no longer a matter of eating crow and hearing curses.

This is soon going to evolve into the defining existential issue for Pakistan, and all the pseudo-bravado of stiffly starched uniforms and the puffery of owning "atum bumbs" will be blown away in the winds of time like the fluff that it always was in reality.

I am now an American citizen, and I would hate to see this happen to the land of my birth, but I know my attempts to avert it will be futile, for most people here are so profoundly blind since they do not wish to see what I know is correct.

explain your concerns

I completely agree that this OUGHT to be the defining Existential moment for Pakistan -- and I want the Pakistan Army and Air Force, along with the bureaucracy and any section of political opinion, to prepare and seize the moment, the opportunity the US may afford it

And like you - I harbor doubt as to whether it will have the foresight to do this.

Because unlike you, I think the US has burned itself with the kinds of statements it has allowed the DoD and elements of the intelligence services to create --- I don't think we should make the mistake of thinking Pakistan are friendless and we should be aware that there is a regional, for the lack of a better word, rebellion, against the US - If I were an American, I would be concerned.

And I don't think the Hilal can ever be given up, it resides in the heart, it is the heart.
 

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