US offers naval ship to Bangladesh

[Bilal9]

@Bilal9

you do understand I'm not comparing INS Shivalik with the hybrid,right??I'm merely saying that just integrating missiles with some large ship doesn't make it a Frigate.a Frigate is a mean machine,quite heavily armed as well as should have to protect itself from various kinds of threat.present day frigates generally has low signature as well as various electronic suits to protect,apart from missiles and ASW rockets and torpedos.integrating missiles in a ship generally makes it a floating missile launch pad,thats it.

and then,i pointed out how Myanmar was making frigates.thats the realistic approach.if BD was too poor to afford frigates,I'd understand.role changing of a warship generally doesn't fare better.when you're living in a hostile neighbourhood,inducting these handicapped intrument generally bog you down further.

and please,I'm a bengali.so you may communicate using bengali.no need to use hindi.

1. Your point is well taken (and my apologies if I've understood you wrong) however Bangladesh' current naval doctrine demands ships like the USCG Rush. As I have noted in my other posts - Bangladesh' main threat is not strategic (unlike blue water navies) but rather protecting EEZ assets (such as fishery, hydrocarbon deposits) and protecting trading lanes from interference by other navies while doing double duty as a defense platform. You may be right that,

'integrating missiles in a ship generally makes it a floating missile launch pad',

However you have to keep in mind that the USCG WHEC class has been (and is still being) used for overseas defense related duties overseas (especially IRAQ). Although the WHEC class did not have VLS systems - ships of similar size in the US Navy do have it. Re-fitting the WHEC class with VLS may be out of the question because of the complication regarding CG and difficulty of re-engineering etc. However fitting of lighter FM-90 AShM (and other related modern Chinese sensors and weapons electronics suites) may be relatively easier.

Case in point is that the BNS BangaBandhu was recently re-fitted with the FM-90 although the ship was made in Korea and generally built for American missile and electronic suites and systems in mind. Also the WHEC class ships are about 500~700 tons heavier than the BangaBandhu. So fitting FM-90's are not technically an issue on WHECs.

The WHEC class was well-armed for what it's role was - which was extended EEZ patrol as well as drug busts off South American locations in international waters. It did have a couple of Phalanx CIWS systems on board as well as an OTOBREDA 76mm super rapid gun which is plenty of firepower for those duties. Whether Bangladesh will opt to equip the ex-WHEC class ships with FM90 type AShM remains a conjecture but you can be assured it will happen if they do see UNIFIL duties.

2. Bangladesh needs to use its naval forces for United Nations UNIFIL duties (such as in Lebanon) which may account for its somewhat over-sized navy in relation to its needs in the Bay of Bengal area. Almost every new ship that Bangladesh has purchased in the last five years has seen UNIFIL duties in either Africa, Lebanon or wherever they are called for. Same for Army and Air-force.

3. Although spending money on arms is wonderful for pocketbooks of higher ups in Govt., one has to moderate it with internal Bangladeshi politics. I believe the Bangladeshi press is quite vocal about such military overspend as we have other practical budgetary priorities such as public education, nutrition and hygiene. On top of that - although we have immense respect for our fighting forces, we don't have that much of a 'fauji' culture internally that our public lives revolve around our Army, Navy or Air-force like some countries in the Middle East etc. and neighboring countries like Myanmar.

4. I don't know much about Myanmar's frigate program of the 'Aung Zeya' class - although I've heard that they used Chinese ToT in building those - still quite an achievement for their yards. Also - I've heard that one of the Aung Zeya class ships may have had some structural issue. Maybe our Myanmarese friends can enlighten us on how the program proceeded and what roadblocks they encountered.

 

[UKBengali]

There was planning to build the Type 56 at Khulna Shipyard owned by the Navy at a new yard further downstream in Khulna.

Khulna Shipyard is already building the smaller gunboat and will start with the Durjoy class craft in short order. Those programs can continue at the older yard for which it is ideal. But Type 56 will require a larger new yard.

Of course either Ananda or Western can easily build the shell and superstructure for type 56 as well. Any yard in Bangladesh will need Chinese ToT for weapons placement and databus integration if AShM and weapons suite integration is needed.

I have confirmed with my indirect sources inside BN that neither Khaleda nor Hasina can provide a roadblock to these plans. Hasina has to go along otherwise 'gaddi' is no longer hers to own.

I think it likely that BD will procure up to 6 of these ships this decade.

What I am hoping for is a follow on purchase for frigates equipped with VLS medium- range SAMs and modern anti-submarines sensors and torpedos. These will give BD immense combat capability.

 

[Bilal9]

I think it likely that BD will procure up to 6 of these ships this decade.

What I am hoping for is a follow on purchase for frigates equipped with VLS medium- range SAMs and modern anti-submarines sensors and torpedos. These will give BD immense combat capability.

Well then you're talking about Pakistan's 'purchase' of older Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates from the US which had 8-cell Mk. 41 VLS installed like these. Don't know if the VLS was included in the 'purchase'.

However Pakistan is a different (higher) class of US ally officially than we are. They can get OHP's - we may have a harder time getting those.

The other option is of course to build frigates with VLS locally from the ground up with either Chinese or Korean ToT as a condition of the purchase. However Korean ToT may be difficult and Chinese will be a lot easier to achieve. The Chinese do not have VLS equipped frigates yet (their Type 54 destroyer is the smallest type of ship with VLS which is way heavier than the type 56). But by the time the type 56's arrive here, there may be lighter Chinese VLS's in use for frigates in the same weight class as the Oliver Hazard Perry frigates.

Further on point about re-equipping WHEC class ships with torpedoes, you no longer need torpedo tubes to launch torpedoes. The US stingray Mk. 46 has been reverse-engineered by the Chinese to something called the Yu-7 torpedo a long time ago, these can be launched from on board tube launchers or from z-9 helicopters, increasing their range by many miles.

 

[UKBengali]

@Bilal9 :

I am thinking of something along the lines of the Type-054A.

This will be a true blue-water frigate and will have the perfect balance of price/performance for a country like BD.

Let BD focus on building up a fleet of Type-56 this decade and then it should be in a position early next decade to build up a force of modern frigates.

 

[Bilal9]

See how the simple Oto Melara 76mm rapid gun can be used with a VULCANO 76mm Guided Long Range (16 km) High Accuracy Ammunition like a micro cruise missile. Previous vulcano rounds (also guided) were in the larger 155mm & 127mm form factors. My hunch is that these use micro electronics such as GPS units, motion transducers and batteries similar to those used in smartphones.

 

[Penguin]

know if the VLS was included in the 'purchase'.

Well then you're talking about Pakistan's 'purchase' of older Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates from the US which had 8-cell Mk. 41 VLS installed like these. Don't know if the VLS was included in the 'purchase'.

McInerney was transferred without any missile capability (since Mk13 launcher was sealed and launcher arm removed). Only Australian and TUrkish navies have installed a single Mk41 on some of their Perry class ships.

A couple of paired Mk48 cell for twin packed ESSM against the stacks would do nicely too. 2 pairs > 4 cells > 8 ESSM.

Or a few quadpacked MK41 Single Cell Launchers
Naval Launchers and Munitions · Lockheed Martin
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/conte...s/launchers/Single_Cell_Launcher_brochure.pdf

Further on point about re-equipping WHEC class ships with torpedoes, you no longer need torpedo tubes to launch torpedoes. The US stingray Mk. 46 has been reverse-engineered by the Chinese to something called the Yu-7 torpedo a long time ago, these can be launched from on board tube launchers or from z-9 helicopters, increasing their range by many miles

There is the US Mk 46 lightweight ASW torp, which replaces the earlier mk 44. While the Mod 0 dates back to 1965, the Navy introduced the MK 46 Mod 5A (SW) Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) torpedo in September 1996.
The US Navy -- Fact File: MK 46 - Torpedo

There is the British Stingray ASW torp.
Sting Ray Mod 1 Lightweight Torpedo product - BAE Systems

Yu-7 is a lightweight ASW torp Chinese development of the US Mk46 mod 2 , incorporating technologies of the Italian Alenia A244-S torpedo, making it the Chinese equivalent of US Mk46 mod 3 .
Yu-7 torpedo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Technically, one doesn't need tubes if there is a helicopter but best is to have both ship and heli with ASW torps.

 

[Aung Zaya]

What is the capability of the frigates that Myanmar is inducting?

Let us look at their latest Kyan Sitta Class:

1× Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Cannons
4 x AK-630 6-barrel 30 mm CIWS guns
6 × SA-N-5 SAM ( F 12 is to be fitted with TY-90)
8 x Kh-35E anti-ship missiles
Triple 324 mm YU-7ASWtorpedoes
Rocket Launchers, possibly ASWrockets or decoy rockets


As you can see the SAM is just a navalised man-portable SAM. Once modified the BD frigates will have FM-90 which wil have at least equal the range.

The torpedos are again short-ranged ones that will be matched with the upgrade that the Chinese will be carrying out.

So for the price of 50 million dollars(cost of Chinese to upgrade) BD gets a frigate that will deliver the same firepower as a ship that will cost between 150-200 million dollars. Yes they will only last 10-15 years but it is worth it at such a low price.

These ships will keep the BD Navy competitive with Myanmar while BD focuses on eliminating poverty.

LOL.. that's not latest.. it's just the prototype of later stealth ones.. BD frigates will have FM-90..? LOL then MM ones will have shtil or barak....

 

[airuah]

It wont just be anti-ship missiles but SAMs and anti-submarine weapons such as torpedos.

you really think that you can all rhat to a coast guard ship. Only way uou are gonna do that is by removing the engines and propellers replacing them with the shit you mentioned. After that to can arrange for a tow boat to tow your ship all around the bay of bengal....

 

[extra terrestrial]

LOL.. that's not latest.. it's just the prototype of later stealth ones.. BD frigates will have FM-90..? LOL then MM ones will have shtil or barak....

WTF! BNS Bangabandhu already uses FM-90N! Every possibility is there to upgrade other frigates with those SAMs.

 

[Penguin]

you really think that you can all rhat to a coast guard ship. Only way uou are gonna do that is by removing the engines and propellers replacing them with the shit you mentioned. After that to can arrange for a tow boat to tow your ship all around the bay of bengal....

Remember during the Reagan years, these ships came with 76mm, Phalanx, Harpoon, and 2 triple ASW tubes and all necessary sensors. The only challenge would be adding a SAM. Then again, I've outlined how you could do that. The CAS dome can provide 1 illumination channel, good enough for a load of 8 ESSM (i.e. 2x2 VL cells Mk48)

 

[Penguin]

 

[eastwatch]

FM-90 Surface-to-Air Missile System of Bangladesh ~ Bangladesh Defence

FM-90 Surface-to-Air Missile System of Bangladesh
Bangladesh Army

At the end of 1998, the FM-90, an enhanced version of the FM-80/HQ-7, was introduced to the public. Compared to the original system, the improvements on the FM-90 include:

• Using VLSI technology-based computer (designed by 706 Institute) to replace the original LSI technology-based S-9 computer on the HQ-7/FM-80.

• Using digital electronic technology to replace the original analogue design, increasing the missile's abilities against active/passive jamming.

• Using a new two-waveband tracking radar to replace the original monopulse radar

• An infrared camera was added to the TV tracking system so that the optical tracking system can be used at night.

• Target information between search and firing units is transmitted via a datalink pole system similar to that fitted on the later production Thomson-CSF Crotale 4000.

• Re-designed missile warhead fusing system.

In addition, the missile's seeking/homing range, maximum speed, and attack range all have been improved, which greatly increases its combat effectiveness. With a maximum detecting range of 25km, the FM-90 is capable of attacking three targets using three different guidance modes simultaneously. The missile also has anti-missile ability against ultra-low-altitude cruise missiles, air-to-surface missiles, and anti-radiation missiles at a distance of 17km.
Status
The Bangladesh Air Force operates the ground-based version of the FM-90 for base air defence purposes, while the Navy operates the FM-90N aboard BNS Khalid bin Walid guided missile frigate.
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Origin: China
TypeArea: Air Defence System
Missile DimensionsLength: 3.00 m, Diameter: 0.156 m, Wingspan: 0.55 m
Missile Weight: 84.5 kg
Operating Altitude: 15-6,000 m
Operating Range: 700 m to 15,000 m
Speed: Mach 2.3 (750 m/s)
GuidanceCommand + electro-optical tracking: Single Shot Hit Probability70-80%
Radar Detecting Range: 25 km
Radar Homing Range: 20 km
Warhead: HE-FRAG with proximity fuse
Service: Bangladesh Air Force, Bangladesh Navy

 

[Penguin]

In addition, the missile's seeking/homing range, maximum speed, and attack range all have been improved, which greatly increases its combat effectiveness. With a maximum detecting range of 25km, the FM-90 is capable of attacking three targets using three different guidance modes simultaneously. The missile also has anti-missile ability against ultra-low-altitude cruise missiles, air-to-surface missiles, and anti-radiation missiles at a distance of 17km.

The system has 'command to line of sight' guidance; the missile does not have any seeking of homing head. There is a choice of tracking modes (optical (tv), ir, radar) A unit has:

• 8-cel missile launcher
• Search radar
• Tracking radar
• TV tracking system
• IR localiser
• Optical aiming system
• Target processing unit

The guidance principle explained here
The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 - Norman Friedman - Google Boeken (Crotale Navale)

 

[Bilal9]

The system has 'command to line of sight' guidance; the missile does not have any seeking of homing head. There is a choice of traking modes (optical (tv), ir, radar) A unit has:

• 8-cel missile launcher
• Search radar
• Tracking radar
• TV tracking system
• IR localiser
• Optical aiming system
• Target processing unit

The guidance principle explained here
The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 - Norman Friedman - Google Boeken (Crotale Navale)

Marhabah Bhai Penguin.

Many Thanks for your excellent informative posts, which stand out from the trolling infants here.

I wish people would only post comments when they have valuable qualitative posts to offer - like yours.