What's new

US had stopped Jordan from sending jets to Pakistan in 1971 war

Whatever you say doesn't change the fact that NO ONE will stand with you while most Muslim states will keep standing up for us.

Indian f. Policy is 'business oriented'...you get what you want and others get what they want from you. Its a product of the reality you live in, ours is the result of the reality we live in.

Back to the topic.

Isn't that the beauty, without alliances and interdependence with others, we are still standing on our own, with same geographical make up since 1947, can you say the same about yourself even with the backing of all the muslim states, China and US.... Even with alll your treaties and brotherly relations, and us without any:- Still democratic, growing stronger and still with the same 1947 policy - INDIA FIRST Always!!!
 
Last edited:
. . . . . .
quite uncalled for to bring in religion, but then again if is it so wrong for to remind pakistan to do it's own bidding?

He's the one going explosive on Islam and using our religious terminologies. My point being a Hindu cannot understand the concept of Ummah which is a part of our faith rather than a political concept.

If one is ignorant about other people's belief structures, he should refrain from making judgements on it or control his outrage when its handed back,

@KRAIT

So when you start to make ill founded statements about our faith structures, it doesn't make you a bigot?
 
.
Ofcourse and in order to 'boast' you need to have states who like to walk in a team formation. Since no one's willing to walk with you, doesn't mean its irrelevant for Muslims.
More muslim countries are fighting with each other than to other. More muslims are fighting with each others than to muslim. So there is no team...
 
Last edited:
.
and you are a "MODS" :sarcastic:


Have i used my aurhority to delete anyone's views or punish anyone for contesting mine?

If not then its time for you to stop 'getting all outraged'.

More muslim countries are fighting with each other than to other. More muslims are fighting with each others than to muslim.


Thats because there are 58 OIC member states and conflict is part of political change.

It can be seen as Muslims fighting Muslims or Muslims standing for their rights to create a better Muslim world against an age of foreign supported tyrany.
 
.
The Title of this Thread is quite erroneus; bordering on pure BS.

The RJAF F-104s were in fact transferred to the PAF. They were 9 F104As which arrived at PAF Masroor on 13th December 1971 after Pakistan's desperate SOS for assistance.

Here is the info:

A US arms embargo imposed on both India and Pakistan after the 1965 war had prevented further PAF expansion, and by the early 1970s the PAF's Mach 2 fighter strength was down to only seven single-seat Starfighters with No. 9 Squadron, plus a single Mirage III unit.
War between Pakistan and India broke out again on December 7, 1971. By this time the Indian MiG force was formidable, with eight squadrons operationally ready. During the 1971 war with India, No 9 Squadron of the Royal Jordanian Air Force with about 10 F-104As was transferred to Pakistan to help out. It is not certain if the Jordanian F-104As were actually used in combat and if they were, whether they were flown by Pakistani or Jordanian pilots.
Both sides have published wildly differing figures for air victories and losses during this war, although it appears that the F-104 came off second-best in the few encounters that occurred with IAF MiG-21s--with the F-104s scoring no confirmed victories and suffering at least two losses. Indian air historians claim that five PAF Starfighters were lost in combat, and they also claim that two Jordanian Starfighters were shot down by MiG-21s on the last day (December 17) of the 1971 war. The PAF has admitted that two PAF Starfighters were lost in combat with IAF MiG-21s during the 1971 war, plus another one lost to ground fire. According to Pakistani sources, nine IAF MiG-21s were shot down on the Western front, with two of them being shot down by PAF fighters (one by an Chinese-built F-6 and another by a F-86 Sabre). The PAF has admitted that the maneuverability of the F-104 was poor during close-in combat and that the F-6 and F-86 were far better in a dogfight.
These losses would have left the PAF with only four of its original F-104As, although these may have supplemented by retention of some of the RJAF F-104As after the end of the war. No. 9 Squadron of the PAF continued to operate these F-104As until re-equipping with Mirage 5PAs in 1975. F-104A 56-0798 still sits on display at Sargodha. This was an ex-RoCAF machine.
By Joe Baugher
Quoting: Lockheed F-104 Starfighter, John Fricker, Wings of Fame, Vol 2, Aerospace Publishing Ltd, 1996

Then another source for that transfer:

Royal Jordanian Air Force assistance during the 1971 war:
Nine F-104As of the RJAF arrived at Masroor (Mauripur) Air Base on December 13, 1971. The Jordanian pilots who ferried them were all operational pilots and they flew many air defense missions on these fighters within the Pakistani air space. The PAF did not allow them to fly cross-border offensive missions over the Indian territory.
Royal Jordanian AF F-104A in Pakistan: 56-767, 56-774, 56-775, 56-777, 56-789, 56-799, 56-839, 56-843, 56-845.
The Royal Jordanian AF aircraft were painted with PAF roundels during the 71 war. Usman Shabbir, November 20, 2007
The Pakistan AF lost three F-104 during the 1971 war including a RJAF F-104A with tail number 56-767 on December 17, 1971.
(F/L Samad Changezi was shot down (KIA) by F/L Arun K. Datta flying a MiG-21FL). Usman Shabbir, November 14, 2007

As we can see from the above,that one RJAF F-104 even became a casualty.

Reading further on:
"An unsavoury surprise came on the morning of December 17th, the last day of the war, when two Uttarlai-based MiG-21FLs escorting a flight of four HF-24s on a morning army support mission, bounced a pair of patrolling F-104s near Naya Chor. After a head-to-head blow through, both pairs turned for each other. Flt Samad Changezi, the F-104 wingman, apparently having spotted the pair earlier, split from the formation and maneuvered to get behind the lead MiG-21. He had to close in to gun range as no missiles were being carried – an inexplicable error by the mission planners. [1] In the meantime the MiG-21 wingman, Flt Lt Arun Datta, was able to close in behind Changezi’s F-104 and fire a missile which missed its target. The F-104 leader, Flt Lt Rashid Bhatti, flying 56-839 (RJAF), warned Changezi to disengage and exit as he had been fired at, but the warning was disregarded in the heat of combat. That inattention earned Changezi a fatal penalty, when a second K-13 missile slammed into his aircraft with an explosion that left no chance of ejection. [2] A squirming Bhatti thought of chasing Datta’s MiG-21 but, being low on fuel and unsuitably armed, he wisely decided against any more recklessness.
[1] It was decided to use the RJAF aircraft for night air defence without missiles (i.e. gun only), making the wingtips available for carriage of drop tanks instead of carrying them under wings, which increased the drag by about 45%. The rationale was that with the limited effort available, staying in the air for a longer duration was a better pay-off in terms of deterrence, rather than carrying out futile night interceptions in the absence of an effective low level GCI radar or a worthwhile AI radar.

Through subterfuge and through active connivance of Iran; even F-5s were transferred to the PAF.
Does anybody here want to know about that?
 
.
Have i used my aurhority to delete anyone's views or punish anyone for contesting mine?

If not then its time for you to stop 'getting all outraged'.




Thats because there are 58 OIC member states and conflict is part of political change.

It can be seen as Muslims fighting Muslims or Muslims standing for their rights to create a better Muslim world against an age of foreign supported tyrany.

I guessed that any average person would have already figured out by now that there's no "friends" only "interests" when it comes to countries, and even if you prefer to call it "friendship" it always comes with a price.
 
. .
So when you start to make ill founded statements about our faith structures, it doesn't make you a bigot?
I don't like rulings of Pakistani society especially regarding Ahmedis.

I have been against all ill practices done in name of religion. Whether its sati pratha, dowry done by Hindus or blasphemy laws by Muslims.
 
.
1305551196bu0453.jpg

Apply copiously.
 
.
I don't like rulings of Pakistani society especially regarding Ahmedis.

I have been against all ill practices done in name of religion. Whether its sati pratha, dowry done by Hindus or blasphemy laws by Muslims.


What you don't like in our way of life is YOUR problem sir, not ours.

Ummah is proven by our authentic texts. One should learn to respect others before expecting the same for his culture.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom