Featured US greenlights Turkey-made attack helicopter sale to Philippines but not for Pakistan?

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Turkey is almost finished with their Engine , they started 10 years ago

Not even close.

 

[Indos]

India does not share land border with China. The only way India can fight China is in ocean where Indian navy is weak and has very few warships relative to China.

The land border dispute between India and China will not cause any major war since both India and China see it as contraproductive to their economic development.

This is different with US which has aggressive nature already and eager to make substantial damage to China so that it can prevent China to raise too high. US and China main conflict is in Asia Pasicif and particularly SCS.

 

[VkdIndian]

India is only part of anti China alliance in Quad, but the main counter to China powers are still Japan, South Korea, and US itself because the real heat happen in SCS and Asia Pasicif, this is the place where military conflict may happen between US vs China, and I doubt India will join if such event really come true in the future

Yes, India is unlikely to join a direct conflict as part of QUAD.

At the same time US would like to tie down China by ensuring that India remains a credible deterrence that can’t be ignored by China. Any arms supplied to Pakistan are meant solely against India. US wouldn’t want India to be tied down with Pakistan.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The land border dispute between India and China will not cause any major war since both India and China see it as contraproductive to their economic development.

This is different with US which has aggressive nature already and eager to make substantial damage to China so that it can prevent China to raise too high. US and China main conflict is in Asia Pasicif and particularly SCS.

US has very few warships. US has 12 carriers. These might last a week in a war with China in SCS. Let's see. 5,000 crew on each carrier. 12 carriers sunk = 5,000 * 12 = 60,000 crew killed. Not that many compared to how many Americans covid kills.

 

[PakPrinciples]

why Attack Helicopters to hunt İndian Tanks ?

Turkey’s extensive deployment of Armed Drones in its fight against Syrian Regime Forces in Idlib province has put forward a "new military doctrine" in the world

UCAVs are more effective than Attack Helicopters to hunt Tanks
An 18 AKINCI UCAV battalion can carry 288 MIZRAK anti Tank missiles, each capable of destroying a Tank



AKINCI UCAV

Payload : 1350 kg
Max speed : 360 km/h
Combat Range : 2.000+ km
Endurance : 24 hours
Service ceiling : 40.000 feet

-- AESA Radar
-- SATCOM
-- 6 multi-core Artificial Intelligence Computers

-- 8 km MIZRAK anti Tank Missile with top attack capability
-- 25 km BOZDOGAN air to air Missile
-- 74 km KUZGUN joint strike Bomb with IIR seeker




AH-64D/E APACHE

Max speed : 293 km/h
Combat Range : 480 km
Endurance : 4 hours
Service ceiling : 20.000 feet

AN/APG-78 Longbow fire-control Radar

-- APKWS 70 mm Rockets
-- 8 km HELLFIRE air to surface Missile
-- 8 km AIM-92 Stinger air to air Missile



even MANPADS can hit Attack Helicopters

That's true but I never said that Attack Helicopters are invincible.

I'm no expert but I would venture attack helicopters have a lot of advantages over drones.

For example attack helicopters can fly low to the ground whereas drones, like the one you described, need to maintain a higher altitude particularly to avoid air defense systems.

Furthermore, Attack helicopters can generally be operated out of anywhere whereas drones, from my understanding, are usually flown out of airbases which are prone to attack by hostile enemy forces.

Attack Helicopters have a plethora of countermeasures they can use whereas drones, at least from what I know, have limited self defense capabilities and that ties into the fact that attack helicopters are generally able to carry a lot more ammunition (ex. Apache has a payload of something like 2700 kg whereas the AKINCI UCAV can carry only 1350 kg).

I would also imagine Attack Helicopters, because of the human component, are also more resistant to cyber warfare:
Exclusive: Iran hijacked US drone, says Iranian engineer
U.S. Warship Took Down Iranian Drone Using New 'Jamming' Technology

Personally I feel like drones are more likely to replace bombers and possibly in the future strike aircraft than attack helicopters.

 

[Goritoes]

Pakistan should get it’s hand on some juicy Apache machines.

You win yourself some Chicken Karai from me, whenever you plan to come SC, let me know

 

[KAL-EL]

You win yourself some Chicken Karai from me, whenever you plan to come SC, let me know

I gladly except brother

 

[Goritoes]

I gladly except brother

But on Topic, I don't think Apache was ever on the table for PA anyway, for PA these Attack helicopters were very important when it comes to clearing Tribal Areas from TTP.

 

[MMM-E]

For example attack helicopters can fly low to the ground whereas drones, like the one you described, need to maintain a higher altitude particularly to avoid air defense systems.

even MANPADS can hit Attack Helicopters
on the other hand ,MANPADAS can not reach 40.000 feet altitude to hit AKINCI UCAVs

and that ties into the fact that attack helicopters are generally able to carry a lot more ammunition (ex. Apache has a payload of something like 2700 kg whereas the AKINCI UCAV can carry only 1350 kg).

AH-64 APACHE can carry 16x HELLFIRE missiles ( 8 km ) .... nothing else
and Attack Helicopters can not hunt Air Defense Systems


on the other hand AKINCI UCAV can carry many weapon systems to hunt Tanks and Air Defense Systems

-- 16x MIZRAK anti Tank missiles ( 8 km )

or

-- 4x KUZGUN-J joint strike missiles with IIR seeker to hit even moving targets ( 250 km )
-- 8x MIZRAK anti Tank missiles ( 8 km )

also MAM-T laser guided Bombs to hit even moving targets ( 30 km )

even 25 km BOZDOGAN air to air missiles to hunt Attack Helicopters



also AKINCI UCAV can stay in the air for 24 hours .... Attack Helicopters max 4 hours

also AKINCI UCAV has combat range of 2.000+ km .... Attack Helicopters max 500 km

also if we lose APACHE Attack Helicopter then that means we will lose also 2 Pilots
on the other hands Pilots use AKINCI UCAV in safe zone




INDIA bought 22 AH-64E APACHE Attack Helicopters for $2.1 billion
PAKISTAN can buy 100 AKINCI UCAVs for $2.1 billion

and bye bye İndian Tanks,Howitzers,MLRS,Air Defense Systems and APACHE Atatck Helicopters

 

[T-SaGe]

Realpolitik. Turkey's military has been aligned and based on NATO/western standards for decades. So the cooperation between both sides is deep and far reaching(forget some ultra nationalist on here who think this can just be cut off like a ribbon due to emotions. lol ). So it makes sense that Turkey will obviously have many subsystems from western countries and its NATO allies. If all ties/cooperation were to suddenly stop today(like some naïve nationalists on here keep clamouring for Turkey to leave NATO and join the East. lol ) then it will have far reaching consequences for them. So the country needs alot of time(decades) to set up a mature structure to start getting complete independence/self sufficiency in this sector.

While people are writing strange things here; Britain, Turkey and many other NATO countries are currently conducting huge exercises in the Balkans and the Mediterranean, right now. So I agree with most of what you have written.

One of the most basic confusion here is that western(and some eastern nowadays) defense industry enthusiasts took the SSIK decisions of 2004(start of ANKA, MILGEM etc.) as a starting point in the analysis of this process. But the grand strategy of the Turkish defense industry to develop independent capabilities has 4 phases.

The first, first serious industrial setup under NATO standards phase was the period of 1975-85. For example, the foundations of all the companies you see in defense top100 list were laid during this period. (The period between 1950 and 1974 is usually a black hole due to the activities of the USA. Turkish state awakened from sleep after the Cyprus embargo.) The second phase, the technical-legal infrastructure development setup, belongs to the 1985-2005 period. The first major technical off-set activities and joint subsidiaries with industry giants began in this period, and Turkish companies began to gain a foothold in global supply networks. After this process was completed, almost all import programs on main systems were canceled and domestic programs started to be announced.

The third stage we are in is the period 2005-2033. While the first half of this period focused on system design and engineering(because of urgent needs of TAF), the second half focused on vertical specialization and design&testing capabilities. The main aim of this stage is focusing to catch the TAF's 2033 vision and to end critical external dependency. The post-2033 period will be the 4th stage that envisages reaching an industry competence that has reached global competitive power as major supplier. All these industrial endeavors are broadly related to the geopolitics of Turkey and its political preparations in the near future. Despite everything, the master plan continues to work despite the changing dynamics.

Turkey is a country with limited resources, yet has too many enemies. Regardless, the main priority of the country is not to risk its military deterrence before the development of the defense industry. Therefore, there is no country that can leave NATO just because a few of its members do not like them. Likewise, there is no country that would not catch the other opportunities to develop cooperation with some other just because the US is not happy. What is happening is a controlled and gradual process of drawing lines, maybe slowly but surely...

 

[Dazzler]

Pakistan was in knowledge about the hurdles. Lest not taunt given our titles.

Please elaborate. What exactly did you find taunting?

 

[T-SaGe]

The necessary permission procedures for the LHTEC engines have been completed. With the completion of the necessary approvals, a total of 12 ATAK T-129 exports will be made to the Philippines, 6 in the first batch and 6 in the second.

The Philippine military wing and political authority managed to get the result of its determined stance. I hope this military sale marks the beginning of a long period of cooperation between the two countries based on mutual interests.

No urgent need for Gunships , we can wait 1 year for engine development

• 36- T-129 , with Turkish Engines are highly anticipated

Pakistan will also give green light for a follow up order with Turkey

Different engine configurations are in preparation for the T-629 and ATAK-2 projects not for T-129. The T-129 helicopters that Pakistan wants have LHTEC engines. In other words, Pakistan-Turkey deal is also waiting for approval from the USA. The project is fully ready, deliveries can begin as soon as the engine approval is received. If the USA continues to stall deal between Pak-Tur, Pakistan may cancel the contract or opt for the other TAI attack helicopter. In either case, US' company will be the only loser, and FMS's attitude will irreparably harm its reputation.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

• 6 Month Extension in March , Looking till August 2021
• Worse come to worse , a new Bigger Helicopter will be attained which Turkey is Making
• Or We can just Get some Ships from Milgem Class or Jinnah Class

Pakistan extends delayed T129 helo deal with Turkey — again (defensenews.com)


ANKARA, Turkey, ISLAMABAD, and WASHINGTON — Pakistan has agreed to, yet again, extend a deal with Turkey for T129 Atak helicopters — a planned procurement riddled with delays.

“We have obtained a six-month extension from Pakistan,” Turkey’s top procurement official, Ismail Demir, told reporters March 12.

But — amid Washington’s enduring opposition to Ankara purchasing the Russian-made S-400 Triumf air defense system — another senior procurement official in Turkey told Defense News that the extension doesn’t imply the deal will ultimately work out.

“This is not a technological or commercial issue,” he said. “It is purely political, and as long as the reasons for the U.S. blockade remain in effect ... what looks like a Turkish-Pakistani deal will be a victim of a Turkish-U.S. dispute.”

 

[The Eagle]

Please elaborate. What exactly did you find taunting?

Go through your post my friend. I have nothing else to say.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

This has nothing to do with Pakistani Military
Philipines is not province of Pakistan