US Frigates Approved For Transfer – not to Pakistan

[Basel]

OHPs were not intended a definitive solution, more as gap-filler until arrival of newer ships. As things stand today, there will not likely be any more forthcoming. FYI Pakistan didn't buy OHP but weere given them in aid. Paid was only the cost of refurbishment, spares, crew training and logistics support. While OHP are relatively old, they have been upgraded over the years. While they've lost their AShM and SAM capabilities, they still are very good ASW platforms.


These are variants of the Dutch Kortenaer class S-frigates. All Dutch ships of this type have found their way to other navies, mostly Greece, which already had a pair of S-frigates purpose built. THese German ships are fine ships that may still have some life left (although the oldest are from 1979-1980 and now 35 years old. The newest are from 1987) Perhaps a decade with good care. Most OHP currently being retired by USN are from around 1985-1989: in fact younger than the decommed Bremen ....). But the Bremen's perhaps have clocked less 'mileage'.

What other options PN have if they want used quality ships in there low budget?

 

[Penguin]

What other options PN have if they want used quality ships in there low budget?

South Korean Ulsan? (but they lack helicopter facilities)

 

[rockstar08]

OHPs were not intended a definitive solution, more as gap-filler until arrival of newer ships. As things stand today, there will not likely be any more forthcoming. FYI Pakistan didn't buy OHP but weere given them in aid. Paid was only the cost of refurbishment, spares, crew training and logistics support. While OHP are relatively old, they have been upgraded over the years. While they've lost their AShM and SAM capabilities, they still are very good ASW platforms.


These are variants of the Dutch Kortenaer class S-frigates. All Dutch ships of this type have found their way to other navies, mostly Greece, which already had a pair of S-frigates purpose built. THese German ships are fine ships that may still have some life left (although the oldest are from 1979-1980 and now 35 years old. The newest are from 1987) Perhaps a decade with good care. Most OHP currently being retired by USN are from around 1985-1989: in fact younger than the decommed Bremen ....). But the Bremen's perhaps have clocked less 'mileage'.

@Basel reason why i am against this floating junk ... even free of cost ..

 

[Basel]

South Korean Ulsan? (but they lack helicopter facilities)

Is having helicopter facility is must for every ship?? what else it offers?

@Basel reason why i am against this floating junk ... even free of cost ..

OHP still have life if properly upgraded, they can carry ESSM or SM-2s if available, those will boost fleet air defense capability of PN which only relies on CIWS level air defense of ships.

 

[rockstar08]

Is having helicopter facility is must for every ship?? what else it offers?



OHP still have life if properly upgraded, they can carry ESSM or SM-2s if available, those will boost fleet air defense capability of PN which only relies on CIWS level air defense of ships.

they can .. but question is will US allow us ?? these ships are coming for free, but with tons of strings attached to do .. and quite frankly , they have close to ZERO combat abilities ... more of a recon ship ..

 

[Penguin]

Ulsan-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is having helicopter facility is must for every ship?? what else it offers?

No, but it does give much greater operational flexibility.

General characteristics
Displacement: 2,350 tons
Length: 103.7m
Beam: 12.5m
Draught: 3.8m
Propulsion: CODOG 2 General Electric LM-2500 Diesel Engine, 2 MTU 538 TB 82
Speed: 34 knots
Range: 8,000 at 16 knots
Complement: 186 (16 officers)
Sensors and
processing systems: - Signaal DA-08 air surveillance radar
- AN/SPS-10C navigation radar
- ST-1802 fire control radar
- Signaal PHS-32 hull-mounted sonar
- TB-261K towed sonar
Electronic warfare
& decoys: - ULQ-11K ESM/ECM suite
- 2 x Mark 36 SRBOC 6-tubed chaff/flare launcher
- 2 x 15-tube SLQ-261 torpedo acoustic countermeasures
Armament:

• 8 x Harpoon (2 quadruple launchers) Anti-Ship Missile
• 6 x 324 mm Blue Shark torpedo (2 triple tubes)
• 2 x Otobreda 76 mm/62 Gun
• 3 x Otobreda 40 mm/70 (2 twin) compact CIWS

Ulsan-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Commissioned between 30 December 1980 and 1 June 1993 but five years passed between the first and second unit and so, most commissioned 1985-1993 (and therefore 22-30 years old)

Completed: 9
In service: 8
Retired: 1

 

[Basel]

Ulsan-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, but it does give much greater operational flexibility.

Ulsan-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Commissioned between 30 December 1980 and 1 June 1993 but five years passed between the first and second unit and so, most commissioned 1985-1993 (and therefore 22-30 years old)

Completed: 9
In service: 8
Retired: 1

Which country offer low price for FFG class ships in the world with good capabilities, as US, UK, France, Germany, SK, China, Russia and many other countries are building ships.

F-22Ps look better then Ulsan, as at least they are new.

 

[Penguin]

Wonder if it would be possible to park some of these (Mk48 GWLS mod 2, or mod 0) onto those slab superstructure sides: 1 canister = 2 ESSM

Which country offer low price for FFG class ships in the world with good capabilities, as US, UK, France, Germany, SK, China, Russia and many other countries are building ships.

F-22Ps look better then Ulsan, as at least they are new.

Parameters were: "if they [PN] want used quality ships in there low budget"

There aren't that many used ships being offered on the market: 4 Italian Soldati (mod Lupo) class frigate and, in time, 8 Maestrale class frigates. The former are ASuW oriented, the latter ASW. The Maestrale-class ships is almost equal to what it was in 1982 (i.e. not much modernized over the years). Philippines navy has been eying these (but not taken any so far). Eventually, RN will replace Type 23s: as of 2012, it is planned that HMS Argyll will be the first Type 23 to retire from the Royal Navy in 2023 while HMS St Albans will be the last, in 2036. Care to wait that long?

New build?
Navantia AVANTE 2200 COMBATANT
http://www.navantia.es/ckfinder/userfiles/files/Avante 2200 Combatant(1).pdf

 

[realsjn]

in fact i've got a 054a...but lost it in the river near my house...
just kidding,its a model

 

[FuturePAF]

The PN should keep trying to pick up at least 2 if not 3 Type 23 Frigates when they are retired, they are great ASW platforms, especially if the PN can buy either at least 2 NH-90 or Merlin Helicopter. If the PN bought and recieved 3 Type 23 Frigates, then the ships could be modernized with some Turkish or European AAW, ASuW, and ASW weapons and countermeasures/sensors (such as Captas-4) and very importantly be allowed to participate in exercises with European navies to stay up to date in ASW and AAW and task force work.

----
If the PN can get 3 Type 23, it can put off buying a top end surface ship for probably up to a decade (per its pattern) and save up money to put in other places or hopefully focus on building up the economy, and let technology mature when its come back around to actually buying new ships off of Chinese shipyards (who will build them and deliver then in only a few years)
----

for modern weapons the front of the ship has a HUGE are to put in all kinds of anti-air, anti-surface, anti-sub missiles
the radar can be upgraded with a Smart S Mk.2, and other minor changes can make this a formidable Front line Ship for the PN

when buying european, think quality
yes the type-23's are old, but they are better ASW platforms then the Chinese are making and better than the Perry Class Frigates in ASW. they are powered by a Combined diesel-electric and gas engine layout, and that makes them much more quieter, perfect for sub hunting.

the PN needs ships like these to test its submarines against to know how good its own submarines are

ALSO, the highly trained and more modern ASW platform of the PN could be used to train against Chinese SSNs, which would be good for the PN to detect SSNs and SSBNs, but also for the chinese to know how to operate against such ASW frigates.

its either this option or buy new 3100 ton Gowind Corvettes from the french for nearly $500 Million and have nearly the same level of sensors

Chile picked up 3 Type-23 for only a TOTAL Price of £134 million ($200 Million)
That's only $67 Million a Ship
operational costs of the ship may be higher, but these ships are high quality vessels

Pakistan can't compete with india in numbers and shouldn't try to do so, it should go for critical technology
A Truly World Class ASW Frigate Needs to be one of then, the PN is now going to face over 30 Submarines (diesel/electric and nuclear) from the IN as well as other nations snooping around the new bases at Ormara and the old base at karachi

 

[Zarvan]

Along with 4 F-22P we need to get Type 54 and Type 56

 

[FuturePAF]

Along with 4 F-22P we need to get Type 54 and Type 56

why the Type 56? define the mission, remember there is a limited budget (unless these ships are free or Saudi is paying for PN acquisitions, we have to be looking to get the most for our money)

building slightly longer Azmat Class FAC with a better main gun and a place for an 8 cell FL-3000N launcher and possibly a simple Towed array sonar, would give all the features of the type 56 for probably half the costs

the Type 54 should be allowed to get further developed until it fits the PN's requirement for AAW frigate, and then be evalauated (the PN studied the Type 54 and 54A and decided to build the F-22P, so there must be a reason they didn't go for the type 54 already, which at the time only cost an extra $50-62.5 Million per ship (f-22P for 187.5 Million and type 54 for $237.5-250 million)

if the difference is only $50 million per ship that can swing a decicion for the PN getting the type 56 and type 54 will only happen if reuirements change for we get alot more in the budget from whatever source

 

[xyxmt]

No Zulu No Ships No 16's

fear of copy

 

[FuturePAF]

BTW, to sweeten any deal for the British, the PN can look to get their industries to put in Modernized equipment (for interoperability of course) The ships might only cost ~$70 Million a piece, but spending another $50-100 Million to modernize them would be smart investment (the platform, the ship has alot of life left in it, especially after a major refit; where these upgrades can be done and tested)

1. New command and control room (similar to the Type 45) and associated upgrades (latest ethernet linking comms, and systems throughout the ship)
2. New Bridge (fully modernized to the Type 45 standard)
3. New ASW Suite, Weapons, and Countermeasures, towed array (CAPTAS-4)
4. New AAW Radar, Fire Control Directors, etc. and New AAW MIssiles (CAMM and something in between Aster15 and Aster 30 for engaging missiles like Brahmos)

Also modernizing as much as possible can help reduce the number of crew required (save on operational costs)

most of the rest of the equipment of the Type 23 is already top notch and better than the PN could procure for the same cost) 4.5" Gun, facilities for the crew, space for making the ship a flagship, large helicopter hanger to allow many kinds of missions (such as rescue pakistani nationals from yemen)

PLUS Participating in BritishASW Exercises, they are world leaders in littoral ASW, which the PN needs to become to keep the Indian Navy and any other opportunist Navy At Bay (plus loan our services to allies, and secure favorable services from them; i.e. PN rescues Saudi or Emiratis from Yemen or Libya)

the PN needs to maintain at least 20-30% of its fleet as world class stuff, with the bulk being OK stuff like the F-22P (which can be upgraded later from experience from the type 23 and perry class frigates the PN can operate, as well as what develops over the course of the next 10 years)

 

[Muhammad Omar]

fear of copy

Didn't Chinese Hacker Stole 10 Blue Prints from US? i read that somewhere