US Black Hawk crashes near N Korean border.

[gambit]

So even though I specifically mentioned Japan buying the island in 2 posts and thus claiming the island and sea.






You make it sound like China started it?

If this doesn't show bias I don't know what does.

Just like you believe this helicopter event is provocative, in my opinion, China's claim on vast swath of ocean is provocative and deserve response. Japan and South Korea should have stronger militaries. The US should have a more prominent presence in South Korea. Provocations begets provocations.

 

[jhungary]

so I am staying levels above trolls like you

what a shame to almost dancing on your own again

what matter is the copter is made in usa and that could have caused it to crash

LOL, whatever you say dude.

We are at fault too, I never said we are perfect, but the fact of the matter is this while it is fact that the Americans are doing damage in the middle east are people not allow to be angry?

The 9/11 casualties are nothing compare to the sufferings in the Middle east.

It is true that Chinese members get defensive, which includes me, but is it not from the constant jabs that the American, and/or whatever you are, throw at us.

If we are to be on topic, notice how the topic says American helicopter crashed at NK border, and we are not allow to say this is provocative? When China launched a second hand Carrier the American media are screaming foul and yet the carrier hasn't even left Asia and doesn't compare to the American eleven.

How do you know the people in Middle East are suffering because of US?? Have you been to any of the Middle Eastern Country, live there and talk to the native there?

The suffer you are referring to is a "hearsay" coming from some member say they were abused or living under distress because of us, and then when you ask him, he would tell you he hear them form somebody he knows, then somebody he knows. But then again does member of one society does that represent the whole society??

And then how much you know what we were doing in Afghanistan and Iraq beside bombing civilian?? Have you got the whole picture or our mission there is just keep bombing the civilian until no civilian were there to bomb anymore??

Then I want to ask you, how can you say the people suffering in Middle East because of us, because this is what you got overthere, first hand??

I can tell you this, for every one case you claim we have abused the middle eastern, I can counter claim 2 case we have helped. Do you even know we were there building school, mosque, hospital, farmland, roads and highways and other facilities so the normal Afghani can have a job, have an education, have a safe place to worship. Do you even know how much Taliban hurt the afghani society??

How do you think our black hawk crashed near the border are a sign of provocation. Border exist so each country can freely ROAM INSIDE THEIR BORDER. If by saying I have a military chopper hovering above the border area is a sign of provocation, then why the hell we need border for??

Does it ever happen to you the chopper could be from training mission, running supply to border post, or even just conduct routine border patrol?

I just want to hear a reason you justify how flying a Blackhawk INSIDE SOUTH KOREA BORDER could be count as a provocation?? Then in this time of date, should we proceed to say, every military flight take flight are sign of provocation or, we should say, because of this heightened tension, we should cancel or pullout our border security, let the North Korean run wild in South Korea??

 

[420canada]

i remember in operation Medusa all the helicopters where asked not to stand still in the air or not to move straight in one direction. why you ask? anti material rifles. I am just saying

 

[Genesis]

Just like you believe this helicopter event is provocative, in my opinion, China's claim on vast swath of ocean is provocative and deserve response. Japan and South Korea should have stronger militaries. The US should have a more prominent presence in South Korea. Provocations begets provocations.

wow, you really only hear what you want to hear don't you.

 

[gambit]

wow, you really only hear what you want to hear don't you.

That is actually more applicable to YOU than to me.

So explain to us all: Why is China's claim to practically the entire South China Sea not provocative? Why should the 'inferior' Asians take that as 'peaceful rise'?

To you, us probably merely existing is an 'unnecessary provocation'.

 

[HongWu]

That is actually more applicable to YOU than to me.

So explain to us all: Why is China's claim to practically the entire South China Sea not provocative? Why should the 'inferior' Asians take that as 'peaceful rise'?

To you, us probably merely existing is an 'unnecessary provocation'.

Because we are the Middle Kingdom and you are not. East Asia is naturally our playground. Live with this reality or face the PLA.

 

[khanboy007]

WOW thats surprising, they have started to fall from the skies before even war broke out

 

[sindhibrah]

It seems that there are many Indian posters buttlicking this Yank like India does to America in real life. Seems like these particular Indians have forgotten the Union Carbide disaster already eh! America and India, two undignified countries hand in hand, how romantic

Yeah...Sure we are...

'Maternity hotel' allowing Chinese women to give birth to U.S. citizens is claimed to be operating in the back of a popular California motel | Mail Online

Any explanations on why so many of your fellow Chinese citizens want their children to have 'scum' citizenship?

If you're on about immigration, then please don't ignore the fact that all the American expatriates in Hong Kong are glad to have made the move here.

So explain to us all: Why is China's claim to practically the entire South China Sea not provocative? Why should the 'inferior' Asians take that as 'peaceful rise'?

Let me explain. Has China voiced rhetoric to use force with its Southeast Asian neighbours the way America and Republic of Korea have in recent days? Has the conflict not cooled down because of acquiescence from all sides?

Hell, I'm not even going to debate this with you. Your governments have committed war crimes every single place you've gone. China has a much more honorable history than America, and I'm saying that fully aware of the Cultural Revolution, Tiananmen Massacre, and countless other crimes against humanity. Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and not to mention you funded the chemical weapons used against the Kurds during the Iran-Iraq War. America has no dignity compared to modern-day China.

 

[terranMarine]

Who knows, the Americans might blame Kim for downing the chopper and treat the incident as an act of war. We are well aware of the American credibility, "Iraq" should ring bells.

 

[shuttler]

CH-53 DOWN

 

[Genesis]

That is actually more applicable to YOU than to me.

So explain to us all: Why is China's claim to practically the entire South China Sea not provocative? Why should the 'inferior' Asians take that as 'peaceful rise'?

To you, us probably merely existing is an 'unnecessary provocation'.

First I never said China isn't provocative, proof:

Lastly, I always maintained that China should pursue interests, but never said it wasn't provocative to other nations.

You put me in your category, but if you were to read my posts non of my posts said China is perfect, in fact all my posts gives the message China has problems and needs improvement but not the hell hole some people seems to suggest. China is pursuing it's interests and it is provocative.

I'm not blind to what China is doing and I accept it. I judge it to be necessary and didn't try to justify it other than to say that it is in China's interest.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...hes-near-n-korean-border-4.html#ixzz2Ql51FKMZ

Then I went on to say US is provocative same way China is. Never did I say China wasn't

But it is Provocative, right? Just because NK started provoking US doesn't mean any actions the US does isn't the same. So we finally landed that you agree it's provocative.

If you don't agree, then Japan bought the Islands in dispute, then that is provocative and anything China does afterwards isn't provocative either.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...hes-near-n-korean-border-5.html#ixzz2Ql5yEKyT

Then you try to weasel out and imply that maybe, maybe not.

Then what is the point of calling this event 'unnecessarily provocative' only to concede that ANYTHING can be construe as provocative?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...hes-near-n-korean-border-5.html#ixzz2Ql6Eop45

If you want to call it that...

Here you pretty much admitted as much and try to make it sound like US was backed in to a corner and it wasn't provocative because NK started it and talking was no good.

You mean those years of giving aid came from nothing? No negotiations at all? At what point should negotiations stop? Go on forever?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...hes-near-n-korean-border-5.html#ixzz2Ql6Jtzlt

Then I stated gave the China Japan example and say that this is similar, except China is in US shoes, because Japan started first.

Is it provocative of China? To me, yes. However this is the same as American situation. So I asked you if you think if China is provocative and if yes, how it differs from US.

What would you call it? Justified action? Than what is the difference between China and Japan situation? Did the Japanese not buy the Island, then wanted to changing the act that forbid a Japanese army.

Shinzo Abe, Japan's Next Leader, Wants Stronger Military (look to my original post for link)

If this had been an island US had disputes with and Japan did these things, what would you call it?

If you call it provoking, then is China also provoking? If yes then how does this differ from this situation?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...hes-near-n-korean-border-5.html#ixzz2Ql7NP6rI

Then, even though I CLEARLY STATED in two posts and the post that responded to this below quote, that Japan was the one who started it. My question was what should China do? Is China's action provocative if yes, how it differs from US, NK.

I will provide one more source on this and show that Japan started it. In Japan's case you do realize they claim the same? This source also states how Japan got the islands in the first place.

Japan agrees to buy disputed Senkaku islands - Telegraph

I thought you follow the news closely, or at least knowledgeable.

Japan bought the island first, and NK tested Nukes first.

China in the East China sea is in the American position, while NK is in Japan's position.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...hes-near-n-korean-border-5.html#ixzz2Ql8rWBi5

Then you try to change the topic to South China sea, even though in a previous post I already said it was provocative. (refer to top for proof)

Once again you claim China aggression in Asia, which is true, but in terms of Japan, Japan started it and in a previous white paper Japan described a Chinese threat. You can Google it if you want.

BTW, this is US response to buying the islands

U.S. warned government against buying Senkaku Islands: Campbell - The Japan Times

I do read the news. But I will sum up your arguments thus:

- China begins aggressive behaviors in Asia to the point of claiming vast swath of ocean as sovereign territory.

- Japan proposes a change in constitution to allow a larger military.

Whoa...!!! Whoa...!!! Japan is being 'unnecessarily provocative'...!!!

Do I have it right?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...hes-near-n-korean-border-5.html#ixzz2Ql99kKXy

Then I quoted the two posts and you can check and said how do you respond.

Then you still ignore that Japan bought the islands first. Still ignore Japan provoked first.

Just like you believe this helicopter event is provocative, in my opinion, China's claim on vast swath of ocean is provocative and deserve response. Japan and South Korea should have stronger militaries. The US should have a more prominent presence in South Korea. Provocations begets provocations.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...hes-near-n-korean-border-6.html#ixzz2QlAAhuSe

Lastly I said you only want to hear what you want to hear and you respond with it's me that does this.

Yet, if you read these posts, it's clear what I have admitted and what you still won't. It's clear that you just want to do the same thing you claim other Chinese members are doing for China.

Gambit, don't try to pass yourself off as the unbiased and well informed member. Clearly, you are not.

Before you do the I know you are but what am I game again, I already claimed in a few posts that I am somewhat biased. But at least I know this fact and try not to be biased. Proof is that In threats that are about China I criticized China before and pour cold water on Chinese heads before.

 

[Mitro]

Yeah the So call 'Scum' is going to own your country and make sure all the Racist White Trash are put to Slavery .

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Yeah...Sure we are...

'Maternity hotel' allowing Chinese women to give birth to U.S. citizens is claimed to be operating in the back of a popular California motel | Mail Online

Any explanations on why so many of your fellow Chinese citizens want their children to have 'scum' citizenship?

 

[gambit]

Because we are the Middle Kingdom and you are not. East Asia is naturally our playground. Live with this reality or face the PLA.

The Middle Kondom again? Considering how much women you got, the title is appropriate.

First I never said China isn't provocative, proof:

Gambit, don't try to pass yourself off as the unbiased and well informed member. Clearly, you are not.

I never said I am an unbiased participant here. In fact, I made it clear, well before you got here, that am here to speak for the US.

But what I did was summarized your position regarding the loaded phrase 'unnecessarily provocative', which is that whatever China does, it is out of self interests, provocative, and necessary. While anyone who respond in kind, their responses are 'unnecessarily provocative'.

That is all...

 

[Genesis]

The Middle Kondom again? Considering how much women you got, the title is appropriate.


I never said I am an unbiased participant here. In fact, I made it clear, well before you got here, that am here to speak for the US.

But what I did was summarized your position regarding the loaded phrase 'unnecessarily provocative', which is that whatever China does, it is out of self interests, provocative, and necessary. While anyone who respond in kind, their responses are 'unnecessarily provocative'.

That is all...

Ok let's just get the points out of the way one by one.

First Japan China

Japan bought the Islands, US condemn the purchase.

Japan wants to change constitution. These we all agree on right?

Japan bought the Island first, do you agree with this point?

Is this an provoking act by Japan?

China responded with boats to the islands. Is this unnecessary provocation?

Lastly do you agree that this is the order these events happened?

 

[Genesis]

LOL, whatever you say dude.




How do you know the people in Middle East are suffering because of US?? Have you been to any of the Middle Eastern Country, live there and talk to the native there?

The suffer you are referring to is a "hearsay" coming from some member say they were abused or living under distress because of us, and then when you ask him, he would tell you he hear them form somebody he knows, then somebody he knows. But then again does member of one society does that represent the whole society??

And then how much you know what we were doing in Afghanistan and Iraq beside bombing civilian?? Have you got the whole picture or our mission there is just keep bombing the civilian until no civilian were there to bomb anymore??

Then I want to ask you, how can you say the people suffering in Middle East because of us, because this is what you got overthere, first hand??

I can tell you this, for every one case you claim we have abused the middle eastern, I can counter claim 2 case we have helped. Do you even know we were there building school, mosque, hospital, farmland, roads and highways and other facilities so the normal Afghani can have a job, have an education, have a safe place to worship. Do you even know how much Taliban hurt the afghani society??

How do you think our black hawk crashed near the border are a sign of provocation. Border exist so each country can freely ROAM INSIDE THEIR BORDER. If by saying I have a military chopper hovering above the border area is a sign of provocation, then why the hell we need border for??

Does it ever happen to you the chopper could be from training mission, running supply to border post, or even just conduct routine border patrol?

I just want to hear a reason you justify how flying a Blackhawk INSIDE SOUTH KOREA BORDER could be count as a provocation?? Then in this time of date, should we proceed to say, every military flight take flight are sign of provocation or, we should say, because of this heightened tension, we should cancel or pullout our border security, let the North Korean run wild in South Korea??

First of all, whether this is a popular war or not in middle east either back home or in Iraq doesn't really require debate does it?

Of course I'm not saying the US is bombing people for fun, where did I say that? Though accidents do happen.

The Boston thing, only 2 or 3 people died and the US is in mourning, now how many do you suppose died in this war? Is that not suffering?

Building schools and etc, come on. That's weak. China is doing just that in Africa and not even invading those countries and they are already saying China is the new colonial power, now imagine if it was a 10 year occupation.

I'm not going to argue this point here with you because as this is a Pakistan forum, there's plenty of prospective. We can create a thread and ask how people feel about this war. How Pakistan people feel about drone strikes. How the Iranians feel about America so on so fourth. If you want to do that we can certainly get a first hand perspective.

Second, borders, you are serious with this?

Well NK did the bomb test inside their borders how is it provoking the US? The bomb can't even reach US, but the army stationed at SK will reach NK. I feel that you haven't really thought this through.

Back when USSR shipped missiles to Cuba, why is the US threatening nuclear war? It's in Cuba, doesn't even border US.