Urs Mubarak of Hazoor Baba Fareed R.A in Pakpattan Sharreef

[Genghis khan1]

 

[Signalian]

I belong to a family that iss very much into this sufism stuff for decades so I've been there, done that all. I've seen all these things very closely for years and the doubts / confusions that developed in my mind after watching these things forced me to study Quran and Hadith to find answers.

And after doing a lot of research, I have distant myself from these sufism, Urs (rituals), shrines, Peer parasti etc. I am not a saint or scholar, but I do what I consider is according to Islam as per my limited knowledge.

Honestly, I cant express my happiness in words that you got confused. I am very happy.

Firstly, there is no place for confused people in religion . i have seen that confused people very soon become atheists. but if u havent become an atheist yet, good for you.

Secondly, what most people cannot understand here including you is that islam is driven by ishq.The universe is driven by ishq. Allah created his best creation hazrat Muhammad SAW and fell in his ishq. Hazrat Muhammad SAW sat in isolation in cave and fell in ishq of Allah.
Ishq is the bond between Allah and Hazrat Muhammad SAW. Allah has shown this by darood shareef and orders related to it, its ishq that Allah invited Hazrat Muhammad SAW up to skies near him.
Ishq made hazrat Ali R.A sleep at night at hazrat Muhammad SAW bed in danger. (and in some other thread a member was arguing that islam forbades activities that can harm yourself, this is putting yourself in harms way).
Ishq for hazrat Muhamamd SAW made hazrat Abu bakar R.A not move his foot and leg in pain when bitten by insect in the cave. (if you argue sleeping in bed was an order by Hazrat Muhammad SAW then there was no order to hazrat abubakar R.A not to lift foot when in pain). he could have doubts in his mind of dying, lifelong disease....no nothing. pure ishq.
Ishq for Allah and hazrat Muhammad SAW is the power that Hazrat Ali (R.A) lifted the gate of khyber alone and threw it away. No second thoughts, no doubts, no reasons, no arguements, just lifted the gate and threw it away.
Ishq for hazrat muhammad SAW's tooth , just one tooth only, and hazrat Owais karni R.A broke of all his teeth not knowing which tooth was shaheed. no doubts, no confusions, how will i eat, will i bleed to death, will i bear the pain... etc..no nothing.
Ashaba karam standing in ghazwa , facing Hazrat Muhammad SAW to save him from arrows is ishq. Narrating that they put their back towards arrows so they dont move aside if they see an incoming arrow towards Hazrat Muhammad SAW.
A buzurg like Hazrat Baba Fareed R.A standing all night to make Allah happy is ishq.

In ishq there are no doubts no reasons, there is no arguement. there are only positive thoughts and optimism. e.g. if you read about lives of buzurgs, they started lunger wherever they used to sit, they had hardly enough to feed themselves let alone start feeding all those who came to them with their problems. if it wasnot ishq, they would argue i dont have anything , how can i distribute to others. But Allah made ways seeing their ishq. whatever people presented them in return , they gave to the needy and lunger system started.

Sufis follow ishq learning from hazrat Muhammad SAW, hazrat Ali R.A, hazrat Owais Karni R.A and there are numerous examples of ishq in muslim history till today.

You had doubts, Mate. good for you

 

[Pakistani sipahi]

You mean visiting shrine is shirk and bidat.. Please give reference from quran...
If not than you are doing shirk and bidat....
We know very well what saudi has done in makkah and madina.. in last 80 years in the name of shirk and bidat..
They are true agent of US and Israel..

Visiting and Praying forgiveness for dead , also Fatiha is allowed . Else asking from the dead and doing sajdah , Passing through gate to enter paradise , asking mannats all that stuff is Prohibited and is categorized as Shirk .

And for Saudi Arabia what they are doing is there amal My job is to tell you the truth and I am not speaking on behalf of the Saudis . Who is doing what I don't know ?

 

[Dubious]

not happening physcially to our body inside the qabar but in another dimension

There is a farishta to suck out our soul so meaning it leaves with him to this dimension so why do these people go ask a dead body for things when the soul is in another dimension?

Or you might have read the hadiths how Prophet mohammed PBUH heard the screaming coming from those graves ?

Yes I have read all those hadith and about qabar ka azhaab.....But then again he could also see angel Gibrail and tell he was Gibrail while others saw him as an ordinary man! So what prophet saw and heard is not something we mere people can see or hear .......coz he also went where Gibrail wasnt allowed to go! So that alone speaks whatelse was blessed to him!

Kashf is the education which access those realms inside the grave and let the living soul contact the dead soul. Like I said it is outside the realm of shariah

So either you become a Jinn (not sure if they are allowed to pass the barrier coz they also fall under MAKHLUK ALLAH like us.....who knows it is the Jinn replying - just to play with humans to make them worship him?) or you become the angel coz each angel has his given assignments and they do not do what they are not told to do....that is what makes them angels!

Did you read Surah Qahf and read the incident b/w Khizar and Hazrat Musa AS? Khizar is considered to be first Pre Islamic era Sufi in our World. Khizar Job was to execute God Wills without Ifs and Buts. Thats what original AUliya Ullah do. They execute will of God and there actions seems out of shariah. But that is the nature of there job just like Khizar.

In many sects Khizr is counted as a Nabi (not a rasul but 1 of the thousands of Nabi).....that ability was counted as his moujzah...

Out of Shariah? Or out of the Quran and Hadith?

According to the Quran God's will is not praying to the dead bodies.....Nor waste money on a dead.....nor celebrate death of someone for years to come....Even in the Quran the prophet was said to be no one's father or anything but just a Rasul ALLAH.. .even he wasnt give any extraordinary title except the best known as Rasool!

Surah Zumar verse 3:
Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever.

Surah Anbiya verse 66:
He said, "Then do you worship instead of Allah that which does not benefit you at all or harm you?

Surah Nisa, verse 48:
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.

Surah Hajj, verse 73:
O people, an example is presented, so listen to it. Indeed, those you invoke besides Allah will never create [as much as] a fly, even if they gathered together for that purpose. And if the fly should steal away from them a [tiny] thing, they could not recover it from him. Weak are the pursuer and pursued.


The thing to note here....the word used OTHERS - dead or alive anything stone or even a dead body!

When you are not allowed to do this thing with Prophet or Sahaba's body how can you even think of doing it with anyone else's dead body? Is their dead body more superior to Prophet's dead body? Prophet actually warned against anyone coming to his dead body to ask! What more a random saint dead 100 yrs ago?

Sorry logically it makes no sense!

Honestly, I cant express my happiness in words that you got confused. I am very happy.

Firstly, there is no place for confused people in religion . i have seen that confused people very soon become atheists. but if u havent become an atheist yet, good for you.

you sound like what some say when someone accepts Islam....only the opposite...Let me tell you 1 thing regarding your happiness...Prophet said he is not from us he who doesnt want for his brother what he wants for himself! Now, as per your logic, you are happy this brother is confused? Shame on you!

Who are you to decide who is from the religion and not when you yourself are not from "us" - that which the prophet described?

For people like you I say: La qum deenu qum wali yadien! Go worship your grave no one will stop you! ALLAH sees all HE knows!

can you enlighten me where I am saying that worshiping non ALLAH is allowed Hassaaa e ni rukan deya

Then what do you do on the grave and ask the dead man for things? THAT is worship! Surah Fatiha where you are asking to seek the right path is a form of worship! Asking for something to aid you in after world is a form of worship....

And Kashf is about invoking Allah name to let the Person see through the veil

There was a story where a guy said he wished he could see the unseen....and ALLAH let him but he was incapable of doing even the basics....like istinjah coz the Lotta kept praising ALLAH and he couldnt use it....Now why do you want to see the unseen? There is a reason the veil is on it!
Allah calls himself the KNOWER OF GHAIB (the unseen) why do we want this ability?

Just curious....why on earth would anyone want to know that?

When I said Master, I meant Teacher student relationship. A guide of sorts, who will guide your soul through the great vastness of space and into the Allah kingdom up in the sky. Now this is an entire complex matter

Indeed it is esp since our guide is the Quran and ONLY ALLAH can guide whom HE wills....and ONLY ALLAH can allow you through the gate! Not sure why anyone would rely on anything less than the GREATEST (ALLAH)?

I mean if you hada choice to address the Sultan/ PM/ President would you waste your time to invoke the chief minister?

 

[Mutakalim]

In many sects Khizr is counted as a Nabi (not a rasul but 1 of the thousands of Nabi).....that ability was counted as his moujzah...

Out of Shariah? Or out of the Quran and Hadith?

According to the Quran God's will is not praying to the dead bodies.....Nor waste money on a dead.....nor celebrate death of someone for years to come....Even in the Quran the prophet was said to be no one's father or anything but just a Rasul ALLAH.. .even he wasnt give any extraordinary title except the best known as Rasool!

Two different stances exist on Khizar A.s in Ahl e Sunnat. According to majority he is considered as Wali Allah. And it is near to truth.

Quran is full of tittles for Rasool Allah. Mudasir, Muzamil, Ta'aha, Yaseen even Rauf, Raheem.

 

[Gikmet Baltee]

The place to worship at shrine is a mosque. There is no worship at grave

dancing , bowing before grave , mingling of man and woman ......that all happens on Urs

 

[Mutakalim]

According to the Quran God's will is not praying to the dead bodies....

And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
Surah An Nisa Verse 64

 

[Mutakalim]

dancing , bowing before grave , mingling of man and woman ......that all happens on Urs

Obviously these thing happens. But as you cannot declare all muslim terrorist you can't say that the people that attend Uras are all mushrik.

 

[Maarkhoor]

@SaG E Jillani88
What is the meaning of Sag e Jillani, Allah Pak ney apko insan banaya hey ashraf ul mahloqaat but app animal banna chahtey ho ? Better to be student or follower of Shiekh Abdul Qadir Jillani rather then Sag.

 

[Arsalan mehmud]

Visiting and Praying forgiveness for dead , also Fatiha is allowed . Else asking from the dead and doing sajdah , Passing through gate to enter paradise , asking mannats all that stuff is Prohibited and is categorized as Shirk .

And for Saudi Arabia what they are doing is there amal My job is to tell you the truth and I am not speaking on behalf of the Saudis . Who is doing what I don't know ?

Saying wali-allah or nabi as dead is showing dis-respect... I am surprised to see you using "dead" word... astaghfirullah

 

[Dubious]

And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
Surah An Nisa Verse 64

I am talking about dead people not Prophet in his life!

 

[Mutakalim]

@SaG E Jillani88
What is the meaning of Sag e Jillani, Allah Pak ney apko insan banaya hey ashraf ul mahloqaat but app animal banna chahtey ho ? Better to be student or follower of Shiekh Abdul Qadir Jillani rather then Sag.

The important question is "Whether it is allowed in Shariah or not". I have not seen any Nas of Quran or Hadith prohibiting this. If you are aware of anything like that then kindly enlighten me.
Kalam of Aulia is full of terms like that whether they are for Rasool Allah, Ameer ul Momeneen Ali R.a or Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani. Just two examples
Sag e Dargah e Jillani, Bahauddin Multani
Laqa e Deen e Sultani, Muhaiuuddin Jillani (Hazrat Khwaja Bahauddin Zakriya Multani)

Sag e Dargah e Meeran Shu, Chu Khwahi Qurb e Rabbani
K bar Sheran Sharaf Dard Sag e Dargah e Jillani (Sultan Bahu)

 

[Dubious]

well yes, there is a place to worship in shrines, and its easily identified and usually called a Mosque. there is one in every shrine.

Khuda ka khouff kero! Jiss cheez say mana kiya giyea tha wahin shuru?

Surah Zumar verse 3:
Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever.

Surah Anbiya verse 66:
He said, "Then do you worship instead of Allah that which does not benefit you at all or harm you?

Surah Nisa, verse 48:
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.

Surah Hajj, verse 73:
O people, an example is presented, so listen to it. Indeed, those you invoke besides Allah will never create [as much as] a fly, even if they gathered together for that purpose. And if the fly should steal away from them a [tiny] thing, they could not recover it from him. Weak are the pursuer and pursued.

 

[Maarkhoor]

The important question is "Whether it is allowed in Shariah or not". I have not seen any Nas of Quran or Hadith prohibiting this. If you are aware of anything like that then kindly enlighten me.
Kalam of Aulia is full of terms like that whether they are for Rasool Allah, Ameer ul Momeneen Ali R.a or Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani. Just two examples
Sag e Dargah e Jillani, Bahauddin Multani
Laqa e Deen e Sultani, Muhaiuuddin Jillani (Hazrat Khwaja Bahauddin Zakriya Multani)

Sag e Dargah e Meeran Shu, Chu Khwahi Qurb e Rabbani
K bar Sheran Sharaf Dard Sag e Dargah e Jillani (Sultan Bahu)

Kindly give any reference from Quran. in Quran Allah said insan ko asharaf al mahloqaat banaya hey. Any sahabi R.A titled himself Sag e Rasool in his life time?

 

[Arsalan mehmud]

I am talking about dead people not Prophet in his life!

I am talking about wali-allah and prophets...
Here the discussion topic belongs to them only not people...