Urs Mubarak of Hazoor Baba Fareed R.A in Pakpattan Sharreef

[Gikmet Baltee]

its haram in islam .... creating new ways of worship

 

[Dubious]

Those who visit grave is to contact the soul of that person inside the grave so they can get some spiritual education and advancement.

then what Islam says about souls removed from the body? Jub roh nikal ti hai.....if it is still in the body (in the grave) then roh kiyun nikalnay kay liyea farishta hota hai?

from your Master.

I thought our "master" is only ALLAH? Arent we slaves of Allah and not prophet or any other master?

 

[Psychic]

When a person becomes Auliya Ullah he attains power. Or the Khaalis and Original sufi who is going through spiritual journey attains power of Kashf. Kashf is to to see the unknown worlds hidden from our eyesight. Those who visit grave is to contact the soul of that person inside the grave so they can get some spiritual education and advancement.

Silsala Ouwasiyaa in Sufisim is all about this stuff. You dont have to be physically present to get education from your Master. If your master is dead, then he can teach you things while visiting in your dreams. The logic behind is Hazrat Ouwais Karni never saw Prophet PBUH yet he attained such knowledge as if he was regular visitor of Prophet PBUH majlis.

Thats how Qudrutullah Shahab of Shahab nama became sufi And Wasif Ali Wasif as well. Both belonged to Silsala Ouwaysia


You can make dua by making wasila of Prophet PBUH. For rest I dont consider it is right to make wasila of some other peers

Mannat is more like Qassam. You say I swear to Allah if he do this mannat of mine I will do this. Rest of what you mentioned is a pure biddat.


Your concept is wrong and the aamil doings has obfuscated the concept of Chillas in Pakistan. You should know there is a clear cut distinction b/w AAMIL and AULIYA ULLAH.

Chilla is a 40 day period of doing some ibadat. Like a verse or dua to be recited for 125000 times. You make a chilla of 40 days by reciting dua for 3125 times per day. This is the standard of Chilla. Thats how mureed begins its spiritual journey.


Rest of what you said is pure biddats. You havent read or heard about True Auliya Ullahs in Pakistan. Here read this link to know about a Walli whom I try to follow. He died in 2000. He used to recite 2 lakh darood every day. Hopefully these links will clear up your all the doubts what are the standard of pure Walli

Future of Pakistan (Insha Allah): Future of Pakistan By Qutab-e-Wahdat Faqeer Bagh Hussain Kamal (RA)

Future of Pakistan (Insha Allah): Future of Pakistan By Qutab-e-Wahdat Faqeer Bagh Hussain Kamal (RA)

Future of Pakistan (Insha Allah): Pakistan: A Great Scheme of God (Arif-e-Waqt Faqeer Bagh Hussain Kamal RA)

Thanks. That was helpful and most justifications provided by you were logical.(Although I have some disagreements).

According to my observation, many Barelvis are involved in Biddah and stuff like that.(Gaddi nasheens, mannats, believing in false Walli Ullahs etc).

. Those who visit grave is to contact the soul of that person inside the grave so they can get some spiritual education and advancement.

Soul remains inside the grave?
Why these people do not live like normal human beings or follow the Sunnah? Isn't it the best policy for a momin to follow sunnah instead of "contacting with souls" ?

Silsala Ouwasiyaa in Sufisim is all about this stuff. You dont have to be physically present to get education from your Master. If your master is dead, then he can teach you things while visiting in your dreams. The logic behind is Hazrat Ouwais Karni never saw Prophet PBUH yet he attained such knowledge as if he was regular visitor of Prophet PBUH majlis.

I agree to some extent. But what about those who hang pictures of a semi naked peer in their shops for spiritual guidance? The main question is how a common man can tell a real Walli and a fake one apart as they died many years ago and what you hear about them are mostly exaggerated stories.

ou can make dua by making wasila of Prophet PBUH. For rest I dont consider it is right to make wasila of some other peers

I fully agree with you on that but many Barelvis make wasila some peers instead of ProphetSAW. They follow many wrong concepts and you can witness this wasila making ritual in almost any popular shrine in Pakistan from Abdullah Shah Ghazi's in Karachi to Bari Imam in Islamabad.

You should know there is a clear cut distinction b/w AAMIL and AULIYA ULLAH.

I know but people flock into the shrines of aamils all over Pakistan(not talking about saints). Some one who did a naked 40 days chilla(like to get some jinnat which is kuffar) has people from all over Pakistan flocking in his shrine like sheep. And then his God damned "karamat" a shaped rock declared as a Jinn's leg etc etc.

You havent read or heard about True Auliya Ullahs in Pakistan.

I have heard and respect them but Barelvis believe in biddats and commit ridiculous rituals all over Pakistan. My post was aimed at those biddats. Secondly I do not believe that some dead baba ji is able to communicate with his mureeds after hundreds of years of his death.
Our path of salvation is in following the foot steps of our holy ProphetSAW instead of following saints. Saints did a service to people so should we instead of making their shrines a sajda gah.

@Akheilos I mean this

I have a better explanation for you ??? Rasoolullah SAW defines these peoples 1400 years ago


Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Amir: One day the Prophet went out and offered the funeral prayers of the martyrs of Uhud and then went up the pulpit and said, "I will pave the way for you as your predecessor and will be a witness on you. By Allah! I see my Fount (Kauthar) just now and I have been given the keys of all the treasures of the earth (or the keys of the earth) "BY ALLAH! I AM NOT AFRAID THAT YOU WILL WORSHIP OTHERS ALONG WITH ALLAH AFTER MY DEATH, BUT I AM AFRAID THAT YOU WILL FIGHT WITH ONE ANOTHER FOR THE WORLDLY THINGS"
Volume 2, Book 23, Number 428: (Sahih Bukhari)

Rasoolullah SAW was not worried about the Shirk but the people who will make FITNAH and we all are aware about these peoples. they are not the peoples paying visits to mazar and doing naat khwani they are someone else. read and relate.

What has this to do with grave kissing?

 

[Dubious]

Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Amir: One day the Prophet went out and offered the funeral prayers of the martyrs of Uhud and then went up the pulpit and said, "I will pave the way for you as your predecessor and will be a witness on you. By Allah! I see my Fount (Kauthar) just now and I have been given the keys of all the treasures of the earth (or the keys of the earth) "BY ALLAH! I AM NOT AFRAID THAT YOU WILL WORSHIP OTHERS ALONG WITH ALLAH AFTER MY DEATH, BUT I AM AFRAID THAT YOU WILL FIGHT WITH ONE ANOTHER FOR THE WORLDLY THINGS"
Volume 2, Book 23, Number 428: (Sahih Bukhari)

Of course he is not afraid coz those who "hold the rope" of ALLAH wont worship others along with ALLAH....

At least you admit this is worshiping others along with ALLAH

Rasoolullah SAW was not worried about the Shirk but the people who will make FITNAH and we all are aware about these peoples. they are not the peoples paying visits to mazar and doing naat khwani they are someone else. read and relate.

He was not worried about the Shirk coz he knew those who hold ALLAH's rope wont do it as it is forbidden in the Quran (which is highest book for Muslims)....

So does this mean that they SHOULD do shirk?

 

[Psychic]

Rasoolullah SAW was not worried about the Shirk but the people who will make FITNAH and we all are aware about these peoples. they are not the peoples paying visits to mazar and doing naat khwani they are someone else. read and relate.

So you declare all those who don't visit shrines as fitnah makers. Quite an absurd logic, for one can label the people who visit shrines as fitnah makers.
Moreover how is worshipping non-Allah not a sin according to the hadith you quoted?

 

[Sipahi]

Thanks. That was helpful and most justifications provided by you were logical.(Although I have some disagreements).

According to my observation, many Barelvis are involved in Biddah and stuff like that.(Gaddi nasheens, mannats, believing in false Walli Ullahs etc).

Soul remains inside the grave?
Why these people do not live like normal human beings or follow the Sunnah? Isn't it the best policy for a momin to follow sunnah instead of "contacting with souls" ?

I agree to some extent. But what about those who hang pictures of a semi naked peer in their shops for spiritual guidance? The main question is how a common man can tell a real Walli and a fake one apart as they died many years ago and what you hear about them are mostly exaggerated stories.

I fully agree with you on that but many Barelvis make wasila some peers instead of ProphetSAW. They follow many wrong concepts and you can witness this wasila making ritual in almost any popular shrine in Pakistan from Abdullah Shah Ghazi's in Karachi to Bari Imam in Islamabad.

I know but people flock into the shrines of aamils all over Pakistan(not talking about saints). Some one who did a naked 40 days chilla(like to get some jinnat which is kuffar) has people from all over Pakistan flocking in his shrine like sheep. And then his God damned "karamat" a shaped rock declared as a Jinn's leg etc etc.

I have heard and respect them but Barelvis believe in biddats and commit ridiculous rituals all over Pakistan. My post was aimed at those biddats. Secondly I do not believe that some dead baba ji is able to communicate with his mureeds after hundreds of years of his death.
Our path of salvation is in following the foot steps of our holy ProphetSAW instead of following saints. Saints did a service to people so should we instead of making their shrines a sajda gah.


What has this to do with grave kissing?

Grave kissing is not allowed in sufism. You are not discussing sufism here ...... You are discussing practices of south Asia.

You are mixing things up.

Of course he is not afraid coz those who "hold the rope" of ALLAH wont worship others along with ALLAH....

At least you admit this is worshiping others along with ALLAH


He was not worried about the Shirk coz he knew those who hold ALLAH's rope wont do it as it is forbidden in the Quran (which is highest book for Muslims)....

So does this mean that they SHOULD do shirk?

can you enlighten me where I am saying that worshiping non ALLAH is allowed Hassaaa e ni rukan deya

 

[Wanderlust]

any pictures?

 

[Sipahi]

Of course he is not afraid coz those who "hold the rope" of ALLAH wont worship others along with ALLAH....

At least you admit this is worshiping others along with ALLAH


He was not worried about the Shirk coz he knew those who hold ALLAH's rope wont do it as it is forbidden in the Quran (which is highest book for Muslims)....

So does this mean that they SHOULD do shirk?

can you enlighten me where I am saying that worshiping non ALLAH is allowed Hassaaa e ni rukan deya

So you declare all those who don't visit shrines as fitnah makers. Quite an absurd logic, for one can label the people who visit shrines as fitnah makers.
Moreover how is worshipping non-Allah not a sin according to the hadith you quoted?

Ankhon se hi parha tha ????

I am saying that "Fitna and Fasad Parwar" peoples are more dangerous then a Sufi.

If he is dancing, it is not for you, its for ALLAH.
If he is doing dhikar, it is not for you, its for ALLAH.

Even some people condemn dhikar in gatherings ...

And no one, even your family will never gives you "theka" of their Islam, so don't pretend to be a thekedar.

So you declare all those who don't visit shrines as fitnah makers. Quite an absurd logic, for one can label the people who visit shrines as fitnah makers.
Moreover how is worshipping non-Allah not a sin according to the hadith you quoted?

 

[Mutakalim]

I belong to a family that iss very much into this sufism stuff for decades so I've been there, done that all. I've seen all these things very closely for years and the doubts / confusions that developed in my mind after watching these things forced me to study Quran and Hadith to find answers.

And after doing a lot of research, I have distant myself from these sufism, Urs (rituals), shrines, Peer parasti etc. I am not a saint or scholar, but I do what I consider is according to Islam as per my limited knowledge.

I have also observed them closely and i have a quite different thinking. One should be able to distinguish from Aamil babas and Sufis. The rule of thumb for distinction is " Tareqat should always be remain under Shariat".
"Teareqat shariat k bagair zindiqiat ha".

 

[LfcRed]

All these innovations of South Asia are condemnable. Any amal you do to please Allah or to gather good deeds or closeness to Allah or anything related becomes a part of religion. We need to be very careful when performing these deeds. When Allah says in the Quran that he has completed the deen for you and accepted Islam as your deen. It clearly states that 'nothing' can be added or subtracted from the 'religion' (Don't give me the example of loudspeaker being an innovation). That is it. What has been taught to you use it and what hasn't been taught to you keep away from it. Nobody was closer to Allah than the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. Then why don't you follow the way of the prophet and after him the rightly guided caliphs and the sahaba. The perfect way to build closeness to Allah and his messenger.

Why most particularly muslims from south asia have this issue of peers, mizaar, urs etc etc is because of their non muslim culture and background they have been dragging along. These are the practices of the sikhs and hindus which have been stuck in our minds that we are afraid to let them go or even think contrary to it. Isn't it the same mentality that the ignorants of Quraish had? They needed to follow their fathers even though how wrong they were and they knew it. Asking wasilah from a dead person isn't the same thing as idol worshipping as the idol neither can benefit you nor harm you? Anything you perform in religion should be taken from the Qur'an, authentic hadith or the life of the prophet and his rightly guided companions. Anything other than that cannot be a part of religion until we are told by the above mentioned sources. Doing such tasks is nothing more than assuming and there is no space for assumptions in religion when Allah says that the religion is complete and sealed.

People who say that we are no one to judge people doing these innovations are correct. We are not here to judge but it is also important to differentiate between Haq and batil. We need to be able to provide naseeha and leave the rest to Allah. We are not here to mock people but to defy a wrong practices which is important when we fear for our brothers in religion.

 

[Bratva]

then what Islam says about souls removed from the body? Jub roh nikal ti hai.....if it is still in the body (in the grave) then roh kiyun nikalnay kay liyea farishta hota hai?


I thought our "master" is only ALLAH? Arent we slaves of Allah and not prophet or any other master?

Ma'am I wasnt clear in my initial post. Have you heard about Qabar ka azab and the blessings you would receive in Qabar after your death and until day of judgement arrives ? We can not see those blessings azab because they are not happening physcially to our body inside the qabar but in another dimension our soul is being suffered/or blessed within our grave.

Or you might have read the hadiths how Prophet mohammed PBUH heard the screaming coming from those graves ?

Kashf is the education which access those realms inside the grave and let the living soul contact the dead soul. Like I said it is outside the realm of shariah

Did you read Surah Qahf and read the incident b/w Khizar and Hazrat Musa AS? Khizar is considered to be first Pre Islamic era Sufi in our World. Khizar Job was to execute God Wills without Ifs and Buts. Thats what original AUliya Ullah do. They execute will of God and there actions seems out of shariah. But that is the nature of there job just like Khizar.

. black magic will provide you the same access but only with Shaytaan name invoked on it .

And Kashf is about invoking Allah name to let the Person see through the veil



When I said Master, I meant Teacher student relationship. A guide of sorts, who will guide your soul through the great vastness of space and into the Allah kingdom up in the sky. Now this is an entire complex matter

Thanks. That was helpful and most justifications provided by you were logical.(Although I have some disagreements).

According to my observation, many Barelvis are involved in Biddah and stuff like that.(Gaddi nasheens, mannats, believing in false Walli Ullahs etc).

Soul remains inside the grave?

Why these people do not live like normal human beings or follow the Sunnah? Isn't it the best policy for a momin to follow sunnah instead of "contacting with souls" ?

With time, Just like Islam was divided in to two and we see so much schism. Much more schism appeared in Sufism as well. Those things that were considered private were outed by the followers of the Peers and Baba and made standard practices. Thats how Sufism degraded over time. Thats how the nature works. Things degrades over time when to move far away from its center

For the explanation of Soul, Kindly read my above reply to Akhelois about the grave part. And adding to the reply, A true Sufi can never become an Auliya ullah if he is not following Sunnah and Shariah. Do you think he will be get accepted in to Allah kingdom without following the Sunnah?

For the rest of your argument. Spiritual world has there own ways. Just like I gave the example of Khizar in above post. There are things in this world you have to do to move ahead, accomplish your task assigned to you by Allah and Prophet PBUH which sometime requires contacting souls and Jinns.

Some are assigned dutuies to preach the unity and Isoteric matters (Baatni aehwaal) among general populace. Like Professor Bagh kamal hussain duty was to cleanse people heart as much as he can do through the blessings he received and creating large mehfils where people can recite innumberable daroods on daily basis.

Wasif Ali Wasif duty was to preach unity among masses.



Thats why they say unless you are not a Sufi and Auliyaullah, you shouldnot make matters of spiritual world open to commoners who wont understand its way of workings.

I agree to some extent. But what about those who hang pictures of a semi naked peer in their shops for spiritual guidance? The main question is how a common man can tell a real Walli and a fake one apart as they died many years ago and what you hear about them are mostly exaggerated stories.

I fully agree with you on that but many Barelvis make wasila some peers instead of ProphetSAW. They follow many wrong concepts and you can witness this wasila making ritual in almost any popular shrine in Pakistan from Abdullah Shah Ghazi's in Karachi to Bari Imam in Islamabad.

Those are Fake Sufis, money making machines accepting Hadiyas. A business they have developed over religious practices.

It is Allah will who will reveal a real walli to a common person. There is no way of telling about them

I know but people flock into the shrines of aamils all over Pakistan(not talking about saints). Some one who did a naked 40 days chilla(like to get some jinnat which is kuffar) has people from all over Pakistan flocking in his shrine like sheep. And then his God damned "karamat" a shaped rock declared as a Jinn's leg etc etc.

There is a reason Auliya ullahs instruct to this day to their murreds to hide their karamat like Women hide their periods. Because Karamat will create hurdles in your advancement of spiritual journey. If they do things like you mentioned, they will be kicked out of the spiritual world. There spiritual connection closed.

I have heard and respect them but Barelvis believe in biddats and commit ridiculous rituals all over Pakistan. My post was aimed at those biddats. Secondly I do not believe that some dead baba ji is able to communicate with his mureeds after hundreds of years of his death.

Those who are the true followers will not reveal the true connection unless they are specifically instructed to reveal this connection of Dead soul contacting you in dream and guiding you. Like Qudrutuallah shahab connection, we only came to know about it after its death and just because that connection granted permission to QU SHahab he can write about this connection.

So lets agree to disagree on this subject.



Our path of salvation is in following the foot steps of our holy ProphetSAW instead of following saints. Saints did a service to people so should we instead of making their shrines a sajda gah.


What has this to do with grave kissing?[/QUOTE]

 

[Signalian]

I'm neither Deobandi nor salafi. I'm a sunni but I don't practice these things like grave or shrine worshiping etc...

Grave worshipping? shrine worshipping?

well yes, there is a place to worship in shrines, and its easily identified and usually called a Mosque. there is one in every shrine.

I have yet to see a muslim or a person worshipping the grave or shrine by saying ,"Subhana Rabi Yal Alla". This is only said in sajdah in Salah, this is never said in front of a shrine or grave.

get your facts right Mate

 

[scionoftheindus]

Idiots worshiping dead bodies, graves and shrines.





Mango! Its just another innovation in Islam by some Molvi's who want to keep their bank balance up using shrines.

We here in our part of India call those dead people in dargahs as Allah devudu (Allah God )..

 

[Signalian]

Coming back to Hazrat Baba Fariduddin masood Ganjshakar R.A.

Lunger (giving free food to everyone) is an important part of Islam and spirituality. Lunger was cooked at hazoor Baba Fareed Shrine since he came and sat in Pakpattan Shareef hundreds of years ago till now and will continue inshAllah. At that time, this place was called Ajodhan and sutlej river ran next to it. Baba Fareed R.A selected a spot on a hill and started offering his prayers. The hindus at that place went mad with anger and wanted him to leave but all the sick and poor started coming to him with their problems. His kindness soon reached all the nooks and corners of the ajodhan. Islam advocates feeding the hungry, regardless of race, religion or background. It is such an important part of the religion that Prophet Muhammad SAW said a person is not really a Muslim if he goes to bed satiated while his neighbor goes hungry. Prophet Muhammad SAW said that the believer's shade on the Day of Judgment will be his charity. Humility in giving is strongly encouraged in Islam. He started to not only treat the sick but gave away everything he had to the poor, just like the hadith says,

Imam al-Tirmidhi reported that the Prophet said:

"O people! Spread the greeting of peace, feed (the poor and needy), behave kindly to your relatives, offer prayer when others are asleep, and (thus) enter Paradise in peace."

So we find in Surah Al-Balad, while describing the virtuous path (which often appears as a steep or difficult path), it says:

“And what would make you conceive what is that steep uphill road ? [It is], the freeing of a slave or the feeding on a day of hunger an orphan relative or a needy person lying in the dust … “ (90:12-16)

Similarly while describing the virtuous people in Surah Al-Insan, it says:

“And they are those who give food – in spite of their own need , to the needy, and the orphan, and the captive, [saying in their hearts],’We only feed you for the sake of God, and we desire nothing in return from you, not even a word of thanks’’” (76:8-9).

He used to remain in zikr of Allah throughout the day and night alongwith ishq of Hazrat Muhammad SAW in his heart. He used to offer fajr salah continuing wuzu from maghrib salah. Night time is the most blessed time that he found in entire day, he liked praying in isolation when all the world had gone to sleep.

Allah Most High said, “Establish worship at the going down of the sun until the dark of the night, and (the recital of) the Qur’an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur’an at dawn is ever witnessed. And some part of the night awake for its recital, as voluntary worship for you. It may be that your Lord will raise you to a praised estate.” [Qur’an, 17: 78-79]

Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace be upon him, his family, and companions) said, “The best prayer after the obligatory prayers is the night prayer.” [Muslim]

Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace be upon him, his family, and companions) was asked, “What prayer is most virtuous, after the obligatory prayers?” He said, “Prayer in the depths of the night.” [Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Nasa’i, Ibn Majah]

Abu Umama al-Bahili (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace be upon him, his family, and companions) said, “Hold fast to night prayer, for it was the way of the righteous before you, a way of drawing closer to your Lord, an expiation for wrong deeds, and a shield from sin.” [Tirmidhi, and others] In some narrations, there is an addition, “And it repels sickness from the body.”

In the books, it is also written that hazrat Baba Fareed R.A used to fast most of the time in his life to attain spiritual heights and become a beloved of Allah and Hazrat Muhammad SAW.

Hazoor Baba Fareed R.A converted the hindus of Ajodhan to muslims through his soft words and compassionate nature. His family(gaddi nasheen and makhdooms) in pakpattan even today follows the same principles at his shrine. Lunger is still abundant at his shrine today and the gaddi nasheen manage the affairs and guide people just like Hazoor Baba Fareed R.A helped the needy and the sick and the porr who came to his door hundreds of years ago.People of pakistan and around the world still love Hazoor Baba Fareed R.A just like their ancestors did. They flock to his shrine every year and round the clock to honour him for converting their ancestors from other religions to Islam. People still love him just like their ancestors loved him hundreds of years ago. Its amazing how Allah puts love in hearts of people for his beloved ones like Hazoor Baba Fareed R.A. Love that is seen in eyes and actions of people for him.

its haram in islam .... creating new ways of worship

The place to worship at shrine is a mosque. There is no worship at grave.

 

[Arsalan mehmud]

CAN SOME ONE PROVE TO ME THIS RITUAL FROM QURAN OR SAHIH HADEES ?

Please refrain from shirkiyat and bidat like these . If any Wali Ullah sees a dream that doesn't make it part of Shariah . All the Walis are respected people and may Allah reward them for their efforts . But performing such unislamic rituals which have no place in Shariah is also against their teachings who taught the word of Allah .

You mean visiting shrine is shirk and bidat.. Please give reference from quran...
If not than you are doing shirk and bidat....
We know very well what saudi has done in makkah and madina.. in last 80 years in the name of shirk and bidat..
They are true agent of US and Israel..