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Update: Indian troops killed soldier after questioning: Pakistan Army

I dont know why we have to put up with these ghaleez indians and their ghaleez acts
open war between india and Pakistan is only a matter of time
 
In the old days there used to be SOP for such stuff , and it used to happen a lot, without anyone being shot or killed, specially along LoC. What's going on - PA & IA becoming some barbarian African or Arab armies?

Even during wars our officers and soldiers knew the essence of war conventions. God damn it, all these soldiers are acting like trigger happy bozos. Where in hell has the professionalism gone?
 
In the old days there used to be SOP for such stuff , and it used to happen a lot, without anyone being shot or killed, specially along LoC. What's going on - PA & IA becoming some barbarian African or Arab armies?

Even during wars our officers and soldiers knew the essence of war conventions. God damn it, all these soldiers are acting like trigger happy bozos. Where in hell has the professionalism gone?

its the growing mistrust all over the world.. That's all..
 
In the old days there used to be SOP for such stuff , and it used to happen a lot, without anyone being shot or killed, specially along LoC. What's going on - PA & IA becoming some barbarian African or Arab armies?

Even during wars our officers and soldiers knew the essence of war conventions. God damn it, all these soldiers are acting like trigger happy bozos. Where in hell has the professionalism gone?

Softie....! :hitwall:
 
In the old days there used to be SOP for such stuff , and it used to happen a lot, without anyone being shot or killed, specially along LoC. What's going on - PA & IA becoming some barbarian African or Arab armies?

Even during wars our officers and soldiers knew the essence of war conventions. God damn it, all these soldiers are acting like trigger happy bozos. Where in hell has the professionalism gone?

The fault probably lies in this new generation who were raised in a environment of hatred and intolerance, one should hear the retired generals and soldiers speak - they had and still have respect for other men in uniform plus the professionalism in their work.
 
Nah, it's way more than that. The mistrust was always there, however, soldiers never behaved such callously before. There used to be proper chain of command, and everyone adhered to it.

In my opinion, uncontrolled hype and propaganda has taken a hefty toll on professionalism of our armed forces (yours and ours). Your guys are bing fed the notion that "India is a superpower" and ours are being fed that "India is the root cause of all problems". Additionally, religious spin on all matters that are purely geo-strategic in nature, and giving them the status of "live of die" scenarios has corroded the ability of officers to think objectively. There are many other factors, which I won't be getting into, the net result of which is that I see both armies one day becoming nothing more than mercenary forces.

its the growing mistrust all over the world.. That's all..

Softie my ***. I'm all in for a an all out war. However, first you need to explain to me the rationale behind it. In very clear terms. As before committing suicide I need to know if it was all worth it? Trust me, when it's all over there will be nothing left. I mean nothing.

Softie....! :hitwall:
 
Nah, it's way more than that. The mistrust was always there, however, soldiers never behaved such callously before. There used to be proper chain of command, and everyone adhered to it.

In my opinion, uncontrolled hype and propaganda has taken a hefty toll on professionalism of our armed forces (yours and ours). Your guys are bing fed the notion that "India is a superpower" and ours are being fed that "India is the root cause of all problems". Additionally, religious spin on all matters that are purely geo-strategic in nature, and giving them the status of "live of die" scenarios has corroded the ability of officers to think objectively. There are many other factors, which I won't be getting into, the net result of which is that I see both armies one day becoming nothing more than mercenary forces.

If your assessment is correct, then thats bad news as professional apolitical and subordinate to civilian authority armed forces was one of our successes after independence.

However what happens across LOC is not indicator enough, that area has always been a clusterfcuk since 1989.

Choose your enemies well because you will become them
 
Yups, have couple of those generals in family. They tell stories of bravery, on both sides of the border and what it meant to obey orders and respect the fallen and how to treat the PoW. What a fcuked time we live in today. Our forces are all slowly becoming Yankee contractors.

The fault probably lies in this new generation who were raised in a environment of hatred and intolerance, one should hear the retired generals and soldiers speak - they had and still have respect for other men in uniform plus the professionalism in their work.
 
Nah, it's way more than that. The mistrust was always there, however, soldiers never behaved such callously before. There used to be proper chain of command, and everyone adhered to it.

In my opinion, uncontrolled hype and propaganda has taken a hefty toll on professionalism of our armed forces (yours and ours). Your guys are bing fed the notion that "India is a superpower" and ours are being fed that "India is the root cause of all problems". Additionally, religious spin on all matters that are purely geo-strategic in nature, and giving them the status of "live of die" scenarios has corroded the ability of officers to think objectively. There are many other factors, which I won't be getting into, the net result of which is that I see both armies one day becoming nothing more than mercenary forces.

Mate, I agree that it was an unfortunate incident & could have been avoided, but one can't expect restrain from IA when a PA soldier has crossed the completely marked & fenced LOC with a gun in his hand. If IA soldiers wouldn't have shot first, there was a very high probability that he could have opened fire on Indian Positions, can we ignore that in current conditions???
 
Dude look around you. I know for a fact that our armed forces are on a clear cut path to corruption, don't you think yours are too? Corruption, no matter what kind, eats at the ethos of warriors. Sit, relax and think of all the deals in the past two decades where generals have been found involved. Any officer who can sell himself for a dime, is no longer fit to defend a country. And when Generals do it, and get away with it?

Whether you like it or not, we are all fcuked, and worst part of it is that now these same corrupt people have their hands on buttons that can literally fry all of us. Next war will not be due to some LoC violation, but it will be due to political chaos where politicians will bribe these generals to upstage some spectacular push into enemy territory and then.............

If your assessment is correct, then thats bad news as professional apolitical and subordinate to civilian authority armed forces was one of our successes after independence.

However what happens across LOC is not indicator enough, that area has always been a clusterfcuk since 1989.

Choose your enemies well because you will become them

No dude. This has happened WAY TOO MANY TIMES before without any loss of life, under worse situations than what are prevalent today on the LoC. It's just a different breed of soldiers manning the borders nowadays. Doesn't bode well for the future of IA or PA.

Mate, I agree that it was an unfortunate incident & could have been avoided, but one can't expect restrain from IA when a PA soldier has crossed the completely marked & fenced LOC with a gun in his hand. If IA soldiers wouldn't have shot first, there was a very high probability that he could have opened fire on Indian Positions, can we ignore that in current conditions???

I better return to NaswarCorner now! :D
 
If we take history as a precedent India has been gracious as god to Pakistan Army. India handed over 90,000 soldiers of Pakistan Army instead of executing them ourselves or if in contravention of geneva convention, then easily handed them over to Bangladesh. The Mukti Bahini would have, without the slightest of doubts executed every last one of them.

Are you honestly going to present history in 'black and white'. If the IA did not offer full POW rights according to the Geneva Convention, PA in the East were going to fight it out till the last men because they knew that they were going to get slaughtered by MB. Also, you had two super powers that were breathing down your neck and were forcing you to end the hostilities. So lets it end with this attitude of 'holier than thou', and accept the real facts on the ground. You didn't really grant full rights to the POW out of the goodness of your heart but due to circumstances on the ground.

So take your lies elsewhere.

Pot calling the kettle black

It has been mentioned, maybe hard for Islamist sympathisers to understand that India faces very regular infiltration attempts. Pakistani terrorists try to cross over the LoC armed with AK-47's.

Ah please, always hiding under the same excuse. Due to the uneven terrain and the nasty fog, there are regular occurrences of strayed soldiers of both sides ending up on the wrong side, after all the average Jawan does not carry a GPS system with him and is not exactly a rocket scientist. There have been no reports of the so called infiltrators using PA uniforms, and IA in the past have always returned strayed PA soldiers except for periods when their was a general 'red alert'. Tensions were running high due to the last skirmish, if the average educated Indian on this forum is celebrating the death of PA Jawan, its natural the IA Jawans were much less forgiving.

The Indian Army is trained to shoot them first, ask questions later because there is a very high probability that if the sequence is reversed, they would be martyred. With 1 terrorist shot at the LoC exactly 1 day before the Pakistani soldier got killed.

Indeed, as i said IA was well within her rights to shoot the PA Jawan. But in this case, other reports are suggesting that PA Jawan was shot after questioning. Anyways, it does not matter how he was shot or not, you are absolutely right in stating that IA was in her rights to kill the PA Jawan. The only person whom is at fault is the platoon commander, and not the IA.

If a Pakistani soldier crosses LoC with an AK-47, he is more than likely to be shot. There have been cases before in which Pakistani soldiers have crossed the LoC, and they have been sent back to Pakistan at flag meetings without harm - those were cases in which Pakistani soldiers were unarmed.

A soldier unarmed at LOC, that seems highly unlikely. Of the incidents that i am aware of, they were always armed with AK47 or a G3.

Try to keep these thoughts in mind, otherwise its like talking to a wall with Pakistani's.

There is nothing to talk about, i don't even know why we are arguing for 20 pages. IA was within her rights to kill this PA Jawan. The question that arises is, will PA return a strayed IA Jawan in a body bag or unharmed? I don't believe it was reported in the media but i am aware of 1 incident in the past year where IA Jawans strayed into AK, arrested and returned. One only needs to visit the LOC especially in some specific sectors to realize that despite the Indian fencing, the LOC is still largely unmarked and a person can easily get confused.

And as far as what ISPR says - Pakistani Army is globally known for its sense of truth, how it never lies and how it conveys those truths to its own political Government, let alone the world.

Indeed, and the IA PR Department is the poster child for truth and integrity. Those fake encounters, ketchups, ISI spreading aids among IA servicemen and the arrest of donkeys/pigeons were just hoax created by the ISI.

In the old days there used to be SOP for such stuff , and it used to happen a lot, without anyone being shot or killed, specially along LoC. What's going on - PA & IA becoming some barbarian African or Arab armies?

Even during wars our officers and soldiers knew the essence of war conventions. God damn it, all these soldiers are acting like trigger happy bozos. Where in hell has the professionalism gone?

You are right

The level of professionalism has considerably gone down. I am aware of the fact that officers from both sides in the past used to sip tea together and play bridge/chess, it does not happen anymore. The media has had a huge role in terms of promoting jingoism and hatred, just look at the comment of some of the Indian members here on this thread celebrating the news of PA Jawan getting killed. But to be fair, we have enough of our own whom celebrate when an IA servicemen gets killed.
 
:lol: ..........grow up...

inappropriate comment I know, I fear that if we were the killers of your soldier instead then one of our fellow Indian member would have made a similar comment.

there is a silver lining though, what I dont see is that none of us do the chest thumping and boasting that yes we killed your guy point blank after he had been captured or yes we cut off his limbs because we hate you etc. we refuse to accept that our side will be responsible for any desecration to the bodies (whether true or not is beside the point) at least we have not crossed the point where sick people actually take pictures next to the corpses and urinate on them and video the whole event of killing. (I think you know who I am talking about and I honestly pray that none of the forces on either side even considers that and leaves this achievement to those sick guys .. you know who)
 
there is a silver lining though, what I dont see is that none of us do the chest thumping and boasting that yes we killed your guy point blank after he had been captured or yes we cut off his limbs because we hate you etc. we refuse to accept that our side will be responsible for any desecration to the bodies (whether true or not is beside the point) at least we have not crossed the point where sick people actually take pictures next to the corpses and urinate on them and video the whole event of killing. (I think you know who I am talking about and I honestly pray that none of the forces on either side even considers that and leaves this achievement to those sick guys .. you know who)
Hope that happens because then the News Reports and Debates on News Channels in both sides will be very spicy.
 
Nobody will ever know on what exactly happened on the ground, PA will come up with their version, IA with theirs.

But killings are happening every now and then, what's the big deal ?

This time ppl are dancing up and down just because it came in the media, most of times it actually goes unnoticed.
 
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