Unundidenfied aircrafts bombed Tripoli, Libya in early hours..

[Ceylal]

Unidentified war planes, explosions in Libyan capital
BY HEBA AL-SHIBANI AND FERAS BOSALUM

TRIPOLI/BENGHAZI Libya Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:45am EDT




(Reuters) - Unidentified war planes flew over the Libyan capital Tripoli and explosions were heard early on Monday, residents said, in what could mark a sharp escalation of more than a month of street fighting between armed factions.

Several Libyan TV channels said planes targeted bases of militiamen from Misrata who have been battling brigades from the western Zintan region to gain control of Tripoli in the worst violence since Muammar Gaddafi was toppled in 2011.

Tripoli residents said they heard several jets flying after midnight, followed by loud explosions. No more planes were heard but fighting between militias on the ground resumed in some parts of the city in the morning.

A Zintani source said fighters of his unit saw planes bombing a Misrata position, though Reuters reporters were not immediately able to access the area.

Fighting between brigades from Misrata and Zintan has raged through Tripoli for more than a month, forcing the United Nations, Western and Arab countries to evacuate their embassies and citizens.

But clashes had been limited to ground action with artillery and rockets. None of the militias are believed to own war planes, while the weak central government has only an outdated air force badly in need of repair.

Pro-Misrata news websites accused renegade General Khalifa Haftar who has used some aircraft from an air base under his control in Benghazi to attack militant Islamists in eastern Libya.

Haftar's spokesman declined to comment when Reuters asked whether his planes had attacked Tripoli targets. "We don't have any comment at the moment," Mohamed el Hejazi said.

Government officials were not available and the mobile phone of cabinet spokesman Ahmed Lamine was switched off.

The weak government has no functioning national army and almost no control over Tripoli, with most officials working from Tobruk in Libya's far-east where the new parliament has set up to escape the violence.

An Egyptian security source said air traffic between the two countries had been interrupted for six hours and that Libyan air controllers had cited security reasons.



FOREIGN INVOLVEMENT?

Some Tripoli residents, tired of daily fighting disrupting power and food supplies, hope that NATO would intervene in Libya as it did in 2011 when the alliance sent jets to bomb Gaddafi forces in support of the uprising that toppled him.

Libyan news channels speculated that the country's neighbors might be behind the action overnight.

A U.S. official and an Egyptian security source, both speaking on condition of anonymity, said their countries had not been involved. A NATO official said: "There are no fighter jets under NATO command involved in operations over Libya."

On Sunday, the U.N. Mission in Libya said it "deeply regrets that there was no response to the repeated international appeals and its own efforts for an immediate ceasefire."

The new U.N. special envoy, Bernardino Leon, who is due to start his job on Sept. 1, said he might travel to Tripoli as early as this week.

 

[faisal6309]

Who could be flying that unidentified war plane?

 

[Ceylal]

Who could be flying that unidentified war plane?

I don't know...France, Italy and Libyan central government denied involvement.
The following is a Libyan communique oon the bombing,and the denial of the Libyan airforce...

 

[Frogman]

I don't know...France, Italy and Libyan central government denied involvement.
The following is a Libyan communique oon the bombing,and the denial of the Libyan airforce...

Well with all the available information I believe it could have been one of three Air Forces, the USAF, Turkish AF, and the EAF.

Let's start with what we know:

The strike was carried out at night/early hours of the morning, that immediately rules out any Libyan aircraft as they do not have any night fighting capabilities. The second thing we know for sure is the use of guided munitions (again rules out anything Libyan), specifically MK-83s with precision guided equipment, this means it could be either the GBU-16 or GBU-32 JDAM, the papers released above mention the bomb being guided by fins, which means the GBU-16 was used, this immediately rules out any Air Force using Russian or other equipment, so we know it wasn't Algeria.

This Libyan FB site which is quite popular and reports on the fighting in Tripoli reports that F-16s were used to strike several targets: ‫تم تاكد على وجود 8 طائرات نوع اف 16 تحوم... - كتيبة امن مطار طرابلس الدولى | Facebook‬

So assuming all the above is accurate, who did it?

The USAF would have most likely used an aircraft from its sixth fleet in the Mediterranean (F-18), however, it does have forces based in Aviano Air Base in Italy, and elsewhere near the Med, so it could have used F-16s from there, although I think the use of a carrier borne aircraft would have been more realistic.

Turkey certainly has the ability to strike Libya across the Mediterranean and has reiterated its support for the Libyan government and is involved in the rebuilding of its forces, however, I doubt it would act alone without the support of NATO.

The Egyptian Air Force, has already conducted operations in Libya and its F-16's Block 52 or otherwise could have made the round trip from Marsa Matrouh to Tripoli comfortably.

I think it was us but the other two are certainly a strong possibility.

 

[Falcon29]

@Frogman

LOL, you must be so proud that we're bombing our own defenseless fellow Arabs. Sigh...the Arab world is lost.

 

[Frogman]

@Frogman

LOL, you must be so proud that we're bombing our own defenseless fellow Arabs. Sigh...the Arab world is lost.

Areas targeted or bombed:

1- Almanoura base, concentrated within it the Salah Badi and Hussien Shaka militias.

2- Alfourisiya base next to Almanoura concentrated within the Lalhlboos militia along with other militias from around Libya

3- Yarmouk base concentrated within the Shield of Libya militia

4- Artillery School concentrated within Hteen, Almarsa, and Ali3sar.

5- The River Industrial Company, concentrated within the Salah Almarghani militia

6- A number of Howitzers in Wady Alrabi3 used to shell Tripoli

7- A convoy of trucks carrying weapons smuggled from Sudan.

8- Alsada base on the road between Bin Waleed and Sirte, concentrated within are Alqaeda affiliated forces.

All of these forces have been involved in campaigns with and against each other in order to take over Tripoli. You don't know anything about Libya, the people targeted were neither defenceless nor innocent and are actively terrorising the Libyan people.
If you're happy with that then you are the one who is lost.

 

[T-123456]

Well with all the available information I believe it could have been one of three Air Forces, the USAF, Turkish AF, and the EAF.

Let's start with what we know:

The strike was carried out at night/early hours of the morning, that immediately rules out any Libyan aircraft as they do not have any night fighting capabilities. The second thing we know for sure is the use of guided munitions (again rules out anything Libyan), specifically MK-83s with precision guided equipment, this means it could be either the GBU-16 or GBU-32 JDAM, the papers released above mention the bomb being guided by fins, which means the GBU-16 was used, this immediately rules out any Air Force using Russian or other equipment, so we know it wasn't Algeria.

This Libyan FB site which is quite popular and reports on the fighting in Tripoli reports that F-16s were used to strike several targets: ‫تم تاكد على وجود 8 طائرات نوع اف 16 تحوم... - كتيبة امن مطار طرابلس الدولى | Facebook‬

So assuming all the above is accurate, who did it?

The USAF would have most likely used an aircraft from its sixth fleet in the Mediterranean (F-18), however, it does have forces based in Aviano Air Base in Italy, and elsewhere near the Med, so it could have used F-16s from there, although I think the use of a carrier borne aircraft would have been more realistic.

Turkey certainly has the ability to strike Libya across the Mediterranean and has reiterated its support for the Libyan government and is involved in the rebuilding of its forces, however, I doubt it would act alone without the support of NATO.

The Egyptian Air Force, has already conducted operations in Libya and its F-16's Block 52 or otherwise could have made the round trip from Marsa Matrouh to Tripoli comfortably.

I think it was us but the other two are certainly a strong possibility.

Why Turkey,why not Egypt bombing the MB in Tripoli?
There is only one reasonable option and thats Egypt,Libya is not our problem.

 

[Frogman]

Why Turkey,why not Egypt bombing the MB in Tripoli?

I said it is a strong possibility, although Egypt or the US doing it is certainly a stronger possibility. The groups targeted are not MB affiliated as far as I'm aware.

 

[Falcon29]

Areas targeted or bombed:

1- Almanoura base, concentrated within it the Salah Badi and Hussien Shaka militias.

2- Alfourisiya base next to Almanoura concentrated within the Lalhlboos militia along with other militias from around Libya

3- Yarmouk base concentrated within the Shield of Libya militia

4- Artillery School concentrated within Hteen, Almarsa, and Ali3sar.

5- The River Industrial Company, concentrated within the Salah Almarghani militia

6- A number of Howitzers in Wady Alrabi3 used to shell Tripoli

7- A convoy of trucks carrying weapons smuggled from Sudan.

8- Alsada base on the road between Bin Waleed and Sirte, concentrated within are Alqaeda affiliated forces.

All of these forces have been involved in campaigns with and against each other in order to take over Tripoli. You don't know anything about Libya, the people targeted were neither defenceless nor innocent and are actively terrorising the Libyan people.
If you're happy with that then you are the one who is lost.

So now it's about the Libyan people? You know what they want? Are those militias not of Libyan people?

More bombing is the solution, you're proven to be an expert on that. All knowing General Toadman.

The only solution is to address issues as brothers. Solution isn't to attempt a coup with a general.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Well with all the available information I believe it could have been one of three Air Forces, the USAF, Turkish AF, and the EAF.

The USAF would have most likely used an aircraft from its sixth fleet in the Mediterranean (F-18), however, it does have forces based in Aviano Air Base in Italy, and elsewhere near the Med, so it could have used F-16s from there, although I think the use of a carrier borne aircraft would have been more realistic.
.

The US has aerial refueling so using an F16 is no different than an F18. So that isn't a factor.

The bigger question would be would the US risk using a lone single engine F16 for a bombing run?

 

[Frogman]

So now it's about the Libyan people? You know what they want? Are those militias not of Libyan people?

More bombing is the solution, you're proven to be an expert on that. All knowing General Toadman.

The only solution is to address issues as brothers.

Yes I know what the Libyan people want, it is the same thing every human being wants, safety, security, education, healthcare, jobs and a viable state. That will not happen with varying militias fighting each other over territory, weapons, and oil or whatever else they fancy. The Libyan people also don't want their nation to become a base from which groups such as Alqaeda, and Ansar Alsharia can operate.

Did I say bombing is the solution? no I did not. You are welcome to go try to start a national dialogue in Libya (something which has been attempted umpteen times) and see how far you get, my guess is you won't get anywhere.

The US has aerial refueling so using an F16 is no different than an F18. So that isn't a factor.

The bigger question would be would the US risk using a lone single engine F16 for a bombing run?

A squadron of fighters was used to bomb these targets according to the reports. It would make sense for an aircraft from the sixth fleet being used when it could possibly be just off the coast of Libya in the Mediterranean, however, the US could have certainly carried out these strikes using its drones as well. They are certainly a very strong possibility.

 

[Falcon29]

Why Turkey,why not Egypt bombing the MB in Tripoli?
There is only one reasonable option and thats Egypt,Libya is not our problem.

I don't know why you think this is a war against the MB. It is a war against revolutionary forces waged upon them by Haftar(Supported by Egypt/KSA/UAE/Israel). It is literally an armed coup.

 

[Frogman]

I don't know why you think this is a war against the MB. It is a war against revolutionary forces waged upon them by Haftar(Supported by Egypt/KSA/UAE/Israel). It is literally an armed coup.

Except Egypt is training government forces and has had talks over arming them in Egypt, from small arms ammunition to trainer aircraft. So how is Egypt involved in a plan to overthrow the government when it is supporting the government and targeting groups which are waging war against the government?

 

[Falcon29]

Yes I know what the Libyan people want, it is the same thing every human being wants, safety, security, education, healthcare, jobs and a viable state. That will not happen with varying militias fighting each other over territory, weapons, and oil or whatever else they fancy. The Libyan people also don't want their nation to become a base from which groups such as Alqaeda, and Ansar Alsharia can operate.

Did I say bombing is the solution? no I did not. You are welcome to go try to start a national dialogue in Libya (something which has been attempted umpteen times) and see how far you get, my guess is you won't get anywhere.

Nobody is fighting amongst each other you propaganda mouthpiece. Seriously, you're such a Sisi/UAE/KSA mouthpiece.Of course that stability can't be achieved when your ilks are trying to attempt armed coups all over the Arab world.

Libyan revolutionary group: UAE and Egypt plotting a coup in Libya

In a Facebook statement, the ROR claimed that UAE's security agencies has recently formed two "cells" to circumvent the Libyan revolution and to stop Libyan oil exports.

......
According to the statement, the "media cell" is primarily tasked with disseminating news that would serve the agenda of the "security cell". Part of its agenda is to distort the image of Islamists, particularly with their rising popularity in Libya, the statement claims.

Libya accuses rogue general of leading coup in Benghazi - The Times of India

The government, parliament and army charged that Haftar's operation was tantamount to a coup against the central authorities.

..................

Haftar Leads A Coup: A General’s Odd War on the Muslim Brotherhood | Palestine Chronicle

Haftar has been actively pursuing a similar media discourse to that of Egypt’s Sisi, who seized power after overthrowing the democratically elected government of Mohammed Morsi in July 2013. Sisi had masked his action in a lexicon that is predicated on a very simple logic: associating the Muslim Brotherhood with terrorism, and vowing to crush the “terrorists” who are supposedly threatening Egypt’s national security. In a series of interviews, including one with US network Fox News, Sisi warned of the danger of Islamic terrorism coming from eastern Libya, and called for US military support. The “national security” argument is helping Sisi shift the focus from urban centres where Egyptian youth has staged daily and nightly protests demanding the restoration of democracy to the periphery – as in Hamas in Gaza, militants in Sinai, terrorists in Libya, and even Sudan.

Haftar is also out to crush the Islamists, but the problem is that Libya’s Muslim Brotherhood is hardly the dominant political force in that country. Haftar knows well that Islamic-leaning parties in Libya are not all one and the same. Yet, he seemed keen on emphasising the Brotherhood as a target behind his ongoing war. He told Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper in an interview published in May that he intends to “purge” Libya of Muslim Brotherhood members. They are a “malignant disease that is seeking to spread throughout the bones of the Arab world”. He even formed a Libyan counterpart of Egypt’s Supreme Council of the Armed Forces.

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[Frogman]

Nobody is fighting amongst each other you propaganda mouthpiece. Seriously, you're such a Sisi/UAE/KSA mouthpiece.Of course that stability can't be achieved when your ilks are trying to attempt armed coups all over the Arab world.

Post-civil war violence in Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Militias in Libya have actively been killing each other for a while, but of course Hazzy see's what he wants to see.

Libyan revolutionary group: UAE and Egypt plotting a coup in Libya

In a Facebook statement, the ROR claimed that UAE's security agencies has recently formed two "cells" to circumvent the Libyan revolution and to stop Libyan oil exports.

......
According to the statement, the "media cell" is primarily tasked with disseminating news that would serve the agenda of the "security cell". Part of its agenda is to distort the image of Islamists, particularly with their rising popularity in Libya, the statement claims.

Libya accuses rogue general of leading coup in Benghazi - The Times of India

The government, parliament and army charged that Haftar's operation was tantamount to a coup against the central authorities.

..................

Haftar Leads A Coup: A General’s Odd War on the Muslim Brotherhood | Palestine Chronicle

Haftar has been actively pursuing a similar media discourse to that of Egypt’s Sisi, who seized power after overthrowing the democratically elected government of Mohammed Morsi in July 2013. Sisi had masked his action in a lexicon that is predicated on a very simple logic: associating the Muslim Brotherhood with terrorism, and vowing to crush the “terrorists” who are supposedly threatening Egypt’s national security. In a series of interviews, including one with US network Fox News, Sisi warned of the danger of Islamic terrorism coming from eastern Libya, and called for US military support. The “national security” argument is helping Sisi shift the focus from urban centres where Egyptian youth has staged daily and nightly protests demanding the restoration of democracy to the periphery – as in Hamas in Gaza, militants in Sinai, terrorists in Libya, and even Sudan.

Haftar is also out to crush the Islamists, but the problem is that Libya’s Muslim Brotherhood is hardly the dominant political force in that country. Haftar knows well that Islamic-leaning parties in Libya are not all one and the same. Yet, he seemed keen on emphasising the Brotherhood as a target behind his ongoing war. He told Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper in an interview published in May that he intends to “purge” Libya of Muslim Brotherhood members. They are a “malignant disease that is seeking to spread throughout the bones of the Arab world”. He even formed a Libyan counterpart of Egypt’s Supreme Council of the Armed Forces.

OK. When you find actual evidence and evidence means evidence not unsubstantiated reports from random militias and opinion pieces then you can talk. However, in the real world the Libyan parliament is doing this:-

Libyan parliament calls for international help to halt violence | Middle East Eye

and just for you

Representatives of the governments of Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia, and the United States met today to express their deep concern about the political and security challenges facing Libya and the impact of these challenges across North Africa and the Sahel region. We call upon all parties in Libya to adopt an immediate ceasefire and to undertake negotiations to address the country’s security and stability needs.

The ongoing violence between Libyans is creating a tragic humanitarian crisis that affects the lives of the most vulnerable and threatens Libya’s democratic transition. We call upon all Libyans to reject terrorism and violence and to replace it with political dialogue to end the instability that is spreading across the country. We call on Libya’s newly elected Council of Representatives and other democratic institutions to adopt inclusive policies that benefit all Libyans and to build a government that meets the Libyan people’s needs for security, reconciliation, and prosperity.

We commend the determination of the Libyan people to ensure that democratic governance and rule of law form the bedrock of their country’s future. The international community stands firmly behind the Libyan people, supports the democratically-elected institutions of Libya, and rejects outside interference in Libya’s transition. We support all parties’ engagement to this objective, including the continued activities of the Tunis process on Libya.

Joint Statement on Libya by the Governments of Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, and the United States