Unsung Heroes of Operation Swift Retort

[aziqbal]

In terms of EW/ECM/EA, the PAF will not have access to 'battle proven' systems. No one will sell those, especially if they actually work. So, the only options available are untested systems from smaller or lesser known suppliers who need business, and are willing to sell to the PAF. However, besides being a newer supplier, Turkey is also stepping up to the plate as a willing strategic partner to Pakistan, which will count.

I think there's a decent chance of the PAF acquiring HAVASOJ in the next 5-7 years.

I hope so and I also think so, after all the Falcon 20 electronic warfare are getting old

Aselsans Hava SOJ is a state of the art system, and we dont need to necessarily have the Bombardier Global 6000 platform for the conversion, we could have it done on the Saab Erieye platform to make maintenance and operating costs easier, Aselsan and Turkish Aerospace would be more than capable to modify the jammer on another platform

Turkish electronic systems are becoming very advanced, actually they are advanced

Pakistan is probably the top export for such a platform

certainly Falcon 20 is good but they are old and need to be replaced, if post 2025 we can order say 4 x HAVASOJ to replace these Falcon 20s it would be a good addition

the bigger picture here is that we get to work more with Aselsan who also opened a office in Pakistan and we have used Aselsan for a multiple of projects

-Jinnah Class corvettes
-T129
-Agosta 90B
-ASELPOD advanced targeting pods

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I hope so and I also think so, after all the Falcon 20 electronic warfare are getting old

Aselsans Hava SOJ is a state of the art system, and we dont need to necessarily have the Bombardier Global 6000 platform for the conversion, we could have it done on the Saab Erieye platform to make maintenance and operating costs easier, Aselsan and Turkish Aerospace would be more than capable to modify the jammer on another platform

Turkish electronic systems are becoming very advanced, actually they are advanced

Pakistan is probably the top export for such a platform

certainly Falcon 20 is good but they are old and need to be replaced, if post 2025 we can order say 4 x HAVASOJ to replace these Falcon 20s it would be a good addition

the bigger picture here is that we get to work more with Aselsan who also opened a office in Pakistan and we have used Aselsan for a multiple of projects

-Jinnah Class corvettes
-T129
-Agosta 90B
-ASELPOD advanced targeting pods

The PAF might prefer using a jet for EA/ECM (for speed / responsiveness). However, they don't need to pick the Global 6000, they can look at lower cost Embraer ERJ-145s, for example.

 

[aziqbal]

The PAF might prefer using a jet for EA/ECM (for speed / responsiveness). However, they don't need to pick the Global 6000, they can look at lower cost Embraer ERJ-145s, for example.

Yes Bombardier Global 6000 is just ridiculously expensive, but it has range and endurance

PAF does not need that kind of capability for the cost, even If we can buy some refurbished units and then have them outfitted by Turkey with latest gadgets we could save on budget

 

[Yasser76]

In terms of EW/ECM/EA, the PAF will not have access to 'battle proven' systems. No one will sell those, especially if they actually work. So, the only options available are untested systems from smaller or lesser known suppliers who need business, and are willing to sell to the PAF. However, besides being a newer supplier, Turkey is also stepping up to the plate as a willing strategic partner to Pakistan, which will count.

I think there's a decent chance of the PAF acquiring HAVASOJ in the next 5-7 years.

Turkey testing a lot of it's kit against Russian equipment in Syria and Libya. PAF needs to get this stuff!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I hope so and I also think so, after all the Falcon 20 electronic warfare are getting old

Aselsans Hava SOJ is a state of the art system, and we dont need to necessarily have the Bombardier Global 6000 platform for the conversion, we could have it done on the Saab Erieye platform to make maintenance and operating costs easier, Aselsan and Turkish Aerospace would be more than capable to modify the jammer on another platform

Turkish electronic systems are becoming very advanced, actually they are advanced

Pakistan is probably the top export for such a platform

certainly Falcon 20 is good but they are old and need to be replaced, if post 2025 we can order say 4 x HAVASOJ to replace these Falcon 20s it would be a good addition

the bigger picture here is that we get to work more with Aselsan who also opened a office in Pakistan and we have used Aselsan for a multiple of projects

-Jinnah Class corvettes
-T129
-Agosta 90B
-ASELPOD advanced targeting pods

Canada has put a sanction on Turkey for defense related stuffs. Turkey has purchased 4 Bombardiers for HAVA SOJ. So, the next HAVA SOJes have to be on a different platform anyway...

 

[aziqbal]

Canada has put a sanction on Turkey for defense related stuffs. Turkey has purchased 4 Bombardiers for HAVA SOJ. So, the next HAVA SOJes have to be on a different platform anyway...

I think that is just a temporary suspension, But they have already received their 4 units or just the 2?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I think that is just a temporary suspension, But they have already received their 4 units or just the 2?

All 4. They're being fitted with the systems..

 

[glycogen]

What if JF-17 and F-16 with their jammer pods did all the jamming but PAF is hiding its true capability by giving all the credit to DA-20?

No not really, The Da20 is a dedicated EW platform with many sensors and pods etc. The ECM pods carried by the jf17 and f16 arent as powerful

 

[Myth_buster_1]

No not really, The Da20 is a dedicated EW platform with many sensors and pods etc. The ECM pods carried by the jf17 and f16 arent as powerful

name me one pod DA20 carries

 

[glycogen]

name me one pod DA20 carries

There is one external pod type structure, but its model and details were never released and rest are internal, unfortunately most of that stuff is classified. The thing about the jammer pods carried by the Jeff and vipers have some blind spots, and still require the user to perform evasive maneuvers to actually break lock/ get a SAM of their tail, and cant really be used that well as the modern missile and SAM technology is programmed to literally sense and attack any ECM. The Da20 though, is an EW platform that can attack radio comms and Data link, disrupting enemy team work and causing overall confusion.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Allot of credit goes to the F16s and JF17 on that night but I wanted to dedicate this thread to the underestimated heroes of the 27th February 2019 better known as the No. 24 Squadron, named the Blinders, the electronic warfare unit of the PAF operating the Dassault Falcon 20F

I remember reading a few years ago that these aircraft are useless and should be scrapped well they proved their worth on that night

PAF operates 3 aircraft serials J-753, J-468 and J-469View attachment 637834 J-468
View attachment 637836

and J-469


View attachment 637837

J-469 fuselage and tail also note name "Iqbal" painted below flight deck windows in memory of Squadron Leader Mohammad Iqbal who lost his life for the country during 1965 war. The name is painted on both sides of aircraft fuselage below flight deck windows

The other PAF Dassault Falcon 20F (serial# J-468) has name "Lodhi" painted below flight deck windows on both sides of fuselage in memory of Flight Lieutenant Saifullah Lodhi who also lost his life during 1965 war with Squadron Leader Mohammad Iqbal.

The third aircraft is nicknamed "Mir"

During Operation Swift Retort 1 x DA-20 + 1 x Erieye worked at the rear of the strike package providing AWACS, ELIMT and EW coverage over the battle field

Pakistan won the battle in the electronic spectrum which gave them advantage in battle, DA-20 jammed the Indian radio signals, Abhinandan testified to this saying he never received his orders to withdraw due to his communications jamming

Lets not forget these special mission aircraft, and rightly they are called the Blinders and they lived up to their name

Sb btado, shabash.

 

[The Raven]

What's surprising is that the PAF hasn't added further examples of the DA-20 to the fleet, considering the density required in the South Asian theatre of operations. There's still plenty of DA-20 airframes so acquiring a few more examples and upgrading these to the EW version shouldn't be an issue. Clearly the PAF has demonstrated its capability and focus on the EW spectrum, and the B model JF-17 appears to be heading in this direction, as a versatile airborne EW and command asset. What's also interesting is the number of dual seat Vipers and Mirages used in Swift Retort, although in the case of the Mirages that may have been a necessity for the H4, demonstrating the synergies and flexibilites from division of pilot/commander workload.