Universe

[Mythal]

Sorry I am off topic - but sometimes I wonder if Universe is a relative perceptional bubble which surrounds us.

Consider an "Ant" - For it the universe would be maximum few sq miles of space as that is what it can perceive.

Similarly I think we humans are just ants compared to the higher dimensional entities. We within our limited perception attempt to understand our universe by framing rules so that we appear to be in control little knowing that an external boot can anyday crush our little universe. Of-course we would rationalize that external boot by naming it freak spatial anamoly, wormhole, etc just like in days of yore when we named local atmospheric phenomenons after Gods of Rain, Thunder, Sun etc.

As to atomic structure and solar system eerily similar if we are not nitpicking.

Our perception of the Universe and the Ant's perception are a little different in a few ways. Ant is only limited by its reach and could perceive more if it travels, but for us humans we are limited by the law of Physics.
Our observable universe is limited by the age of Universe and the speed of light. So if the age of universe is almost 14 billion years, then we can only see as far as 14 light years in any direction. Unless we find a way to manipulate time or space or speed of light wewill never know what is beyond that distance of 14 light years, our observable universe.

 

[Spectre]

Our perception of the Universe and the Ant's perception are a little different in a few ways. Ant is only limited by its reach and could perceive more if it travels, but for us humans we are limited by the law of Physics.
Our observable universe is limited by the age of Universe and the speed of light. So if the age of universe is almost 14 billion years, then we can only see as far as 14 light years in any direction. Unless we find a way to manipulate time or space or speed of light wewill never know what is beyond that distance of 14 light years, our observable universe.

As I said Laws of Physics themselves are limited by Human perception and knowledge and as we expand our understanding these laws would be further refined and newer laws would come into place to explain as yet unexplained phenomenons.

When we can break the atom within few centuries of thinking Earth is the centre of Universe I am sure we can bend the space-time in coming centuries if we put our efforts into it and not on destroying each other.

 

[Mythal]

As I said Laws of Physics themselves are limited by Human perception and knowledge and as we expand our understanding these laws would be further refined and newer laws would come into place to explain as yet unexplained phenomenons.

When we can break the atom within few centuries of thinking Earth is the centre of Universe I am sure we can bend the space-time in coming centuries if we put our efforts into it and not on destroying each other.

Broke the atom and created nuclear bomb, bend space-time create a freaking reality altering bomb to send the enemy into another dimension. World is such a messed up place.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Broke the atom and created nuclear bomb, bend space-time create a freaking reality altering bomb to send the enemy into another dimension. World is such a messed up place.

 

[Providence]

I agree, my recollection of general theory of relativity and lorrentz transformation is really hazy and comes from half understood readings of books by Stephen Hawkings and shows by Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Even Newtonian Physics was not thrashed but its applicability was constrained within given conditions. Same can happen with relative physics as you have suggested. I am yet to read about Superset theory in detail and till I do so I would hold my comments.

All theories are fallible only for a new one to emerge. That's the beauty of science.

As for the newtonian physics, it was trashed ( hats off to Newton nevertheless ). Newtonian physics predicted infinite speed of light which is now proven wrong. There is a limit to the speed of causality which is 'c'.

One implication of relativity theory was, if two objects are moving at the speed of light in the same direction, and if the second object directs a light beam towards the first, it will traverse the distance between them at 'c'. The light beam if reflected by first will again reach back to the second one at speed of light. All this while, both objects were travelling at the speed of light. This is impossible in newtonian physics.

Also, Newton treated gravity as a force. Relativity doesn't treat gravity as force but as curvature of space-time.

 

[Spectre]

All theories are fallible only for a new one to emerge. That's the beauty of science.

As for the newtonian physics, it was trashed ( hats off to Newton nevertheless ). Newtonian physics predicted infinite speed of light which is now proven wrong. There is a limit to the speed of causality which is 'c'.

One implication of relativity theory was, if two objects are moving at the speed of light in the same direction, and if the second object directs a light beam towards the first, it will traverse the distance between them at 'c'. The light beam if reflected by first will again reach back to the second one at speed of light. All this while, both objects were travelling at the speed of light. This is impossible in newtonian physics.

Also, Newton treated gravity as a force. Relativity doesn't treat gravity as force but as curvature of space-time.

I agree with all of it - as usual you are correct. My point was just that some of the Newtonian mechanics, laws and equations still hold and have applicability within constraints.

 

[Providence]

Fact is,that humans are limited and having limited knowledge.The universe has a lot more to share and a lot has to be revealed.I do get amazed to see,that how well calculated and well planned everything is.From a tiny distance b/w two atoms to solar systems,from stars to heaven,everything has it's own science.
I as human,believe that whatsoever we imagine do exists in universe,but with other role and phenotype.Anything is possible in universe,anything could be created from matter and energy emitted from dying star and any event could take place.It is time to think maturely and to grow up.

regards

It is an irony that most stalwarts in the field of physics were devout religious people. I suppose human mind needs closure.

Successful countries have been the ones which appreciated this dichotomy and allowed co-existence of both line of thoughts (science & religion). Any country which persuaded only single line of thought have perished or decayed.

 

[applesauce]

When we can break the atom within few centuries of thinking Earth is the centre of Universe I am sure we can bend the space-time in coming centuries if we put our efforts into it and not on destroying each other.

well since space itself is expanding in all direction, you can pick any point to be the center of the universe. in fact you know how we are taught the earth revolves around the sun? you can in fact take earth to be the center point and from that perspective, have everything else rotate around it. the math for space launches and stuff would actually work , it's just more complicated if you take earth as the center.

 

[Mythal]

One implication of relativity theory was, if two objects are moving at the speed of light in the same direction, and if the second object directs a light beam towards the first, it will traverse the distance between them at 'c'. The light beam if reflected by first will again reach back to the second one at speed of light. All this while, both objects were travelling at the speed of light. This is impossible in newtonian physics.

This example you gave, I am unable to picture this. Are the two object travelling in parallel or one after another. In either case if they are travelling at the speed of light, how will the light beam from object a reach the object b, as the object b is moving at the speed of light.

 

[Spectre]

It is an irony that most stalwarts in the field of physics were devout religious people. I suppose human mind needs closure.

Successful countries have been the ones which appreciated this dichotomy and allowed co-existence of both line of thoughts (science & religion). Any country which persuaded only single line of thought have perished or decayed.

Well said, though interesting thing is science often gets a kick start when things are in a state of flux or in turnmoil like during war times. They often do say Necessity is the mother of inventions.

If you look at last 50 years most of the breakthroughs have been incremental not transformational in nature. I remember during 60s the optimism was so high but then somehow we got stuck in the rut.

well since space itself is expanding in all direction, you can pick any point to be the center of the universe. in fact you know how we are taught the earth revolves around the sun? you can in fact take earth to be the center point and from that perspective, have everything else rotate around it. the math for space launches and stuff would actually work , it's just more complicated if you take earth as the center.

Now that I think about it absolutely true. But we do know about the planetary mechanics and Sun's mass is responsible for earth orbiting around the sun.

Technically though you are right.

 

[Providence]

This example you gave, I am unable to picture this. Are the two object travelling in parallel or one after another. In either case if they are travelling at the speed of light, how will the light beam from object a reach the object b, as the object b is moving at the speed of light.

I should have made it clear. Yes one object is following other.

Nobody said relativity was intuitive It is actually the other way and for the same reason relativity was always seen with skepticism until the GPS satellites verified it first hand. GPS will never function without relativity corrections being made constantly and periodically.

What I would suggest is when you are trying to imagine this entire phenomena don't restrict your mind to think that the time is same for both. Time's perception would differ in both the frames.

 

[Slav Defence]

It is an irony that most stalwarts in the field of physics were devout religious people. I suppose human mind needs closure.

Successful countries have been the ones which appreciated this dichotomy and allowed co-existence of both line of thoughts (science & religion). Any country which persuaded only single line of thought have perished or decayed.

Has science been evolved from philosophy and philosophy from religion?But one thing is for sure,primitive science was a branch of philosophy!
Might be,we are not seeking the links b/w these three,hence failing to get the bigger picture?

regards

 

[Mythal]

I should have made it clear. Yes one object is following other.

Nobody said relativity was intuitive It is actually the other way and for the same reason relativity was always seen with skepticism until the GPS satellites verified it first hand. GPS will never function without relativity corrections being made constantly and periodically.

What I would suggest is when you are trying to imagine this entire phenomena don't restrict your mind to think that the time is same for both. Time's perception would differ in both the frames.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Has science been evolved from philosophy and philosophy from religion?But one thing is for sure,primitive science was a branch of philosophy!
Might be,we are not seeking the links b/w these three,hence failing to get the bigger picture?

regards

I am a sociology student .
1st page of my book reads

-------------- Science
Philosophy-----------
-------------- Religion

In other words Philosophy is Mother of all sciences .

 

[Providence]

well since space itself is expanding in all direction, you can pick any point to be the center of the universe. in fact you know how we are taught the earth revolves around the sun? you can in fact take earth to be the center point and from that perspective, have everything else rotate around it. the math for space launches and stuff would actually work , it's just more complicated if you take earth as the center.

True but that is an idealistic view actually which doesn't factor in the effect of gravity. Our earth is not strictly an inertial frame.

The acceleration vector calculations for the inter-space travel assumes the sun to be an inertial frame and does all the calculations w.r.t it.