UN : Pak's 'empty rhetoric' useless, Kashmir integral : India

[kalakaar]

India should start withdrawing before the slogan Kashmir bannay ga Pakistan turns into Hindustan bannay ga Pakistan.

Only in 8 districts the rant of islamisation is happening, Jammu and Ladhak are ver much fine with India. You claim Siachen also, now tell me which Kashmiri apple is living there and what is the criteria that you are claiming it?

 

[Jackdaws]

At least a decent thread.

Make LOC as IB and move on. Yea Kashmiris in the valley are pro Pak. But this is not the case in Kargil, Ladakh, Jammu.

 

[BHarwana]

BHai Sahab, if you want to see only one side of coin then no one can help you.

Please believe whatsoever you want to believe..... Let me know any one thing Pakistan will get in the future till I am alive or if not ban in PDF.

Tomorrow is a big day for me because I have booked 3 BHK house in Bangalore and going for registration and in the evening, going to face 3rd round interview in Sony..... I am moving out.... Thanks

Good luck with your interview, but I am not looking at one side of the coin I know India gains if LOC is permanent but there is nothing in it for Pakistan. So you are only looking at your benefit and with this both Pakistan and Kashmiris lose.

Only in 8 districts the rant of islamisation is happening, Jammu and Ladhak are ver much fine with India. You claim Siachen also, now tell me which Kashmiri apple is living there and what is the criteria that you are claiming it?

This discussion is not about 8 districts it is in a different dynamics but just to answer you why do you need 700,000 troops for just 8 districts? This is very strange deployment.

@Rajesh Singh you want peace you have to withdraw Kashmir. Thus peace can prevail and India will be at peace, but for permanent peace India has to stop the killing of minorities because in India minorities are not that minor and civil war has very high chances.

 

[kalakaar]

This discussion is not about 8 districts it is in a different dynamics but just to answer you why do you need 700,000 troops for just 8 districts? This is very strange deployment.

Let me enlighten the semi literates like you and Rajesh Singh.

1. The 700,000 , which i have been hearing since I am born is a false, the total strength of Indian army is 1400,000 active. So you think, Indian army is a fool that they have deployed more than 50% of Indian army in Kashmir. This contradicts the commonsense. Yes there is para military and it is under civilian control. There is no army that too 700000 troops in the valley.

2. Coming to AFSPA, it is a tool which is used by army depending on district , town, situation and area. Not every where it is implemented. And especially nor through out the valley. Only when there is encounter going.

3. The LC is itself disputed as I quoted in my previous post. Forget converting it into IB.

4. Yes, we want 700000 troops to be deployed in the valley but they are not listening, why because of the daily intrusion and terror issues by the cross border infiltrators.

 

[BHarwana]

Let me enlighten the semi literates like you and Rajesh Singh.

1. The 700,000 , which i have been hearing since I am born is a false, the total strength of Indian army is 1400,000 active. So you think, Indian army is a fool that they have deployed more than 50% of Indian army in Kashmir. This contradicts the commonsense. Yes there is para military and it is under civilian control. There is no army that too 700000 troops in the valley.

2. Coming to AFSPA, it is a tool which is used by army depending on district , town, situation and area. Not every where it is implemented. And especially nor through out the valley. Only when there is encounter going.

3. The LC is itself disputed as I quoted in my previous post. Forget converting it into IB.

4. Yes, we want 700000 troops to be deployed in the valley but they are not listening, why because of the daily intrusion and terror issues by the cross border infiltrators.

How many freedom fighter are there in Kashmir?

 

[itsanufy]

Every Human has a breaking point. Modi and Hindutava if they keep killing Muslims Tamils Christians Sikhs and Naxils they will rise. Muslim in Kashmir and Naxil in east have started the armed struggle the fire is slowly spreading and one day they will get tired of Hindu occupation over them and rise it is not the matter of how now. It is just the matter of when. One day they will break and say no to Hindus and rise against cruelty.

You all have gone silent lol. Because you all know this is happening in Modi's India. You all Indians are witnessing it. If Modi gets another term in office and continue on the path all it will take is a little fuel like the Gujrat Massacre and people will rise for freedom in India. Look at the world history all civil wars started after cruelty of Leader and ruling ethnicity and a little help from outside. India is on the track and soon it will happen and very soon.

Pakistan need people like Modi to rule India and we need Hindutava only then the local minorities will rise and they will start their struggle. For 70 years UN was silent over Kashmir but thanks to Modi and Hindutava a toothless organisation like UN also woke up. Who says Modi is bad for Pakistan. Modi is good for Pakistan.

You all Indians see it coming. you cannot prove me wrong here it is happening.

Sir, I came from a Naxal dominated area and used to be influenced by them when I was young. They used to be a potent force few years back, used to have parallel govt. But now confined only to deep jungles of MP. Its only some more years you will heard that the last Naxal has surrendered.
My sister in law is a Tamilian, married to a Bengali. She is from Madurai, the heart of TN culture. Went to her place multiple times. Never ever heard of commoners speaking of separation from India. In fact there was a village nearby to her home called by locals as Army Village.
These are facts, believe it or not.

I used to have sympathy for Kashmiri people, but as it turned religious, my sympathy erased.
@Imran Khan

 

[Storm Force]

Redrawing bprders is A NON STARTER

Get used to ground reality now NUKES are here

 

[padamchen]

Sir, I came from a Naxal dominated area and used to be influenced by them when I was young. They used to be a potent force few years back, used to have parallel govt. But now confined only to deep jungles of MP. Its only some more years you will heard that the last Naxal has surrendered.
My sister in law is a Tamilian, married to a Bengali. She is from Madurai, the heart of TN culture. Went to her place multiple times. Never ever heard of commoners speaking of separation from India. In fact there was a village nearby to her home called by locals as Army Village.
These are facts, believe it or not.

I used to have sympathy for Kashmiri people, but as it turned religious, my sympathy erased.
@Imran Khan

I've never had sympathy for Kashmiris.

As I never had any for the Sikhs who wanted Khalistan.

There is only one answer to those who want to secede ....

And the Kashmiris should count themselves lucky that India has chosen to be patient for this long. This soft.

Biggest lanat on so called Hindutva icon Modi for doing balls all about Kashmir. If anything, our Army unanimously feels that the BJP messed up a stable Congress status quo.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Corona]

The Two nation theory still exists as long as Pakistan exists. Also Bangladesh did not join Bharat.

You do know that Quaid E Azaam only reluctantly accepted Bengal into the Pakistan movement due to the great works by Bengali Muslims (great respect to them for this). He preferred the Pakistan movement to be P A K (I) S TAN as he was also a practical man...

The Kashmir issue is an outstanding issue of the division of the colonial entity of British India. You do not wish to acknowledge this because it would weaken your stance...must do root cause analysis...

Let us do a thought experiment:

1. Pakistan Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan allows a referendum and give two choices: remain with Pakistan or join Bharat.

2. Bharat Kashmir allows a referendum and gives two choices: remain with Bharat or join Pakistan.

In your honest opinion what would be the result of experiment 1 and experiment 2? And more importantly WHY?

Ooooh Root Cause Analysis, engineer spotted. Let me have a crack at it then. Mind you I've read the rest of your posts in this thread.

Results of experiment 1 and 2, without option for an independent state, Kashmir will choose Pakistan on religious terms. But why stop the root cause analysis there? Religion or atleast religious extremism entered the conflict in the late 80s and 90s. Why would we allow a referendum in the current climate that favors Pakistan when, say in 50 years we can either change the situation or the demography to favor us.

Except this solution u r talking about hasn't worked out in the entire existence of India/Pak. Throughout all this time...all the ups and downs in the economies, political environment, wars(between the two)...LOC has more or less remained the same ever since Kashmir was split up between the two. If that solution was realistically an option it would've happened by now and yet it hasn't happened.

The reason why it hasn't happened is bcuz of ego...

India doesn't want to let go of its claim on Pak's Kashmir bcuz India doesn't wanna look weak by just giving up territory that it claims it's own. Moreover India considers itself strong...strong enough that it holds out hope that it can someday snatch away that Kashmir from Pak by force.

Pakistan on the other hand doesn't want to let go of its claim on Indian Kashmir bcuz that would also make Pakistan look weak. It would make it look like that Pak bowed down to India and has accepted Indian hegemony just like how other smaller countries in the region do like Bhutan/Sri Lanka/etc. It would also be considered a strategic blunder bcuz of the water issue since the rivers that flow in Pak originate in IOK and Pakistan stands to gain territory in the event of a neutral plebiscite due to a large Muslim population of IOK(which are mostly either pro Pak or pro independence...due to the behavior of Indian armed forces like shooting pellet guns).

So u see even though LOC has more or less existed as sort of an international border between India/Pak...neither would be willing to accept it as an official border for reasons described above.

The only reason which may interest both India/Pak is the following...

Money and Safety/Security(from each other and a possible nuclear war)

With this in mind a solution can be worked out...

The Kashmir issue has caused both nations to spend billions of dollars throughout their existence to continue to build up/maintain their offensive/defensive capacity against each other. If Kashmir issue is resolved then there would hardly be a reason to fight. For the last 70 years the money spent by both(India/Pak) on defense expenditures and waging wars is probably more than the total value of Kashmir in terms of land/resources/man power. So if they could achieve a solution to this...they can plug a hole of billions of dollars spent in defense expenditures.

Secondly the safety part...for Pak its obvious...it faces a foe that has more manpower/resources/budget/etc. If that front can be eliminated(by achieving peace), it would be highly desirable.
For India though it enjoys conventional superiority vis a vis Pak, it still has to constantly worry about two fronts. Having enemies to fight on two fronts is a strategic nightmare. Throughout history fighting wars has proven a disaster for the party engaged in a two front war. So if India could achieve peace with Pak...it would be(or rather "should be") highly desirable for India if it ever hopes to challenge China.
Last but not least...it would reduce if not outright eliminate the threat of a nuclear war between the two.

So keeping in mind the above two driving factors...now a realistic solution must be figured out...more on that later...since I gtg right now
Consider this PART 1.

" If Kashmir issue is resolved then there would hardly be a reason to fight."
As much as I'd like to think this is possible, it's not gonna be that easy.

 

[Areesh]

Indians are such a bunch of clowns that they are saying this BS on the platform that accused them of gross human rights violations just a few days ago forcing them to reject it and whine about it.

 

[pannipaiyan]

Why would we allow a referendum in the current climate that favors Pakistan when, say in 50 years we can either change the situation or the demography to favor us.

Abso"fuckin"lutely. Sometimes, we need to do what China did in Tibet by flooding the region with ethnic Han Chinese, rename the region as Xinjiang.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Indians are such a bunch of clowns that they are saying this BS on the platform that accused them of gross human rights violations just a few days ago forcing them to reject it and whine about it.

Really?
Don't pakistanis hate how the UN has been unduly soft on India and is apparently "unfair" to pakistan yet you still go there to put your case forward?

 

[El Sidd]

India's complete disregard for the humanitarian crisis in Kashmir and the utter obsession with the word 'integral' and the egoistical approach to territorial disputes will eventually engulf the region in War.

 

[hussain0216]

Indians are such a bunch of clowns that they are saying this BS on the platform that accused them of gross human rights violations just a few days ago forcing them to reject it and whine about it.

Just like india is the most dangerous place in the world for women - indians cry, cover their ears and go na na na

India is revealed to have enourmous numbers in extreme poverty - indians cry, cover their ears and go na na na

India is revealed as a human rights abuser in Kashmir by the U.N no less - indians cry, cover their ears and go na na na



Kashmiris say we hate Indian's we want FREEDOM we believe in Partition and the two nation theory and we a muslim majority state thats wants to cede to Pakistan - indians cry, cover their ears and go na na na



BJP really fcuked up i ln Kashmir if anything Congress policy of going soft was working better, muscular hindutva BJP managed to alienate and ignite hatred in millions

 

[Areesh]

Really?
Don't pakistanis hate how the UN has been unduly soft on India and is apparently "unfair" to pakistan yet you still go there to put your case forward?

WE also ask UN to resolve Kashmir issue despite all our reservation about it.

The thing is India's rant on UN looks even more nonsensical after recent UN report about IOK.