UN condemns US abortion decision

[Enigma SIG]

UN is Hydra.

 

[Sayfullah]

What about when the women was raped? Nobody can expect a women to carry a child created through one of worst kinds of crime

In Islam, in all schools of thought, if a woman was raped she is allowed to abort the pregnancy.

In Islam abortion is allowed 1) if it’s a valid reason like it dangers the mother’s life OR 2) if she was raped.
This too it must be done before the limbs starts to develop so in the first 40 UNLESS a valid excuse like danger to life.
Islam strictly prohibits abortion if it’s just beacuse fear that the parents won’t be able to afford for the child or raise it.

Islam is anti abortion when it’s done without a valid reason. Fear of poverty IS NOT a valid excuse.
Otherwise Islam allows abortion provided there is a valid reason like rape or danger to mother’s life.

 

[WotTen]

In Islam, in all schools of thought, if a woman was raped she is allowed to abort the pregnancy.

Islam is a very pragmatic religion. Even eating a dead person is allowed as a last resort to save one's life.

On topic, I can just see some dudes I worked with in Oklahoma and Texas reacting to the UN

 

[StraightEdge]

US is a broken society, they are hurtling towards societal decay.

 

[Beast]

What the F does UN have to do with abortion?... Is it a baby murder organization?

So murder the mother is ok? What happened the mother has some condition not suitable for conceiving baby that can threaten her life?

 

[Clutch]

What about when the women was raped? Nobody can expect a women to carry a child created through one of worst kinds of crime

How many rape babies are there versus baby abortion due to inconvenience?...

Btw... Abortion due to rape can be made a special exception.

 

[jamahir]

What is the Islamic view on abortion guys?
both Shia, Sunni or perspective of different sects would be appreciated

@cocomo

There is no space for abortion in Islam in any sect or creed.

We shouldn't care what is the "Sunni" view on it or the "Shia" view on it but what is the humane and Islamic view on it. There is no reason to abort a fetus unless the mother's life is actually in danger. Islam even gives the human the right to inherit family estate right from the time the person is a fetus but of course the inheritance will apply only after the death of the property holder who can be of any gender. I quote below the Indian courts system's summary of Islamic inheritance law :

Muslim law recognizes two types of heirs, Sharers and Residuaries. Sharers are the ones who are entitled to a certain share in the deceased’s property and Residuaries would take up the share in the property that is left over after the sharers have taken their part.

Sharers : The Sharers are 12 in number and are as follows: (1) Husband, (2) Wife, (3) Daughter, (4) Daughter of a son (or son's son or son's son and so on), (5) Father, (6) Paternal Grandfather, (7) Mother, (8) Grandmother on the male line, (9) Full sister (10) Consanguine sister (11) Uterine sister, and (12) Uterine brother.

The share taken by each sharer will vary in certain conditions. For instance, a wife takes 1/4th of share in a case where the couple is without lineal descendants, and a one-eighth share otherwise. A husband (in the case of succession to the wife's estate) takes a half share in a case where the couple is without lineal descendants, and a one-fourth share otherwise. A sole daughter takes a half share. Where the deceased has left behind more than one daughter, all daughters jointly take two-thirds.

If the deceased had left behind son(s) and daughter(s), then, the daughters cease to be sharers and become residuaries instead, with the residue being so distributed as to ensure that each son gets double of what each daughter gets.

Non-Testamentary and Testamentary succession under Muslim law : In Non-testamentary succession, the Muslim Personal Law (Shariat) Application Act, 1937 gets applied. On the other hand, in case of a person who dies testate i.e. 2 one who has created his will before death, the inheritance is governed under the relevant Muslim Shariat Law as applicable to the Shias and the Sunnis. In cases where the subject matter of property is an immovable property, situated in the state of West Bengal, Chennai and Bombay, the Muslims shall be bound by the Indian Succession Act, 1925. This exception is only for the purposes of testamentary succession.

Birthright : Inheritance of property in Muslim law comes only after the death of a person, any child born into a Muslim family does not get his right to property on his birth. If an heir lives even after the death of the ancestor, he becomes a legal heir and is therefore entitled to a share in the property. However, if the apparent heir does not survive his ancestor, then no such right of inheritance or share in the property shall exist.

Distribution of the Property : Under the Muslim law, distribution of property can be made in two ways – per capita or per strip distribution. The per capita distribution method is majorly used in the Sunni law. According to this method, the estate left over by the ancestors gets equally distributed among the heirs. Therefore, the share of each person depends on the number of heirs. The per strip distribution method is recognised in the Shia law. According to this method of property inheritance, the property gets distributed among the heirs according to the strip they belong to. Hence the quantum of their inheritance also depends upon the branch and the number of persons that belong to the branch.

Rights of females : Muslim does not create any distinction between the rights of men and women. On the death of their ancestor, nothing can prevent both girl and boy child to become the legal heirs of inheritable property. However, it is generally found that the quantum of the share of a female heir is half of that of the male heirs. The reason 3 behind this is that under the Muslim law a female shall upon marriage receive mehr and maintenance from her husband whereas males will have only the property of the ancestors for inheritance. Also, males have the duty of maintaining their wife and children.

Widow’s right to succession : Under Muslim law, no widow is excluded from the succession. A childless Muslim widow is entitled to one-fourth of the property of the deceased husband, after meeting his funeral and legal expenses and debts. However, a widow who has children or grandchildren is entitled to one-eighth of the deceased husband's property. If a Muslim man marries during an illness and subsequently dies of that medical condition without brief recovery or consummating the marriage, his widow has no right of inheritance. But if her ailing husband divorces her and afterwards, he dies from that illness, the widow's right to a share of inheritance continues until she remarries.

A Child in the Womb : A child in the womb of its mother is competent to inherit provided it is born alive. A child in the embryo is regarded as a living person and, as such, the property vests immediately in that child. But, if such a child in the womb is not born alive, the share already vested in it is divested and, it is presumed as if there was no such heir (in the womb) at all.

And all this is ideally done within a welfare-based society where if the mother is unable to provide for the child then there should be a hostel where the child is provided for by the governance system and from where he or she can be adopted.

What about when the women was raped? Nobody can expect a women to carry a child created through one of worst kinds of crime

How many rape babies are there versus baby abortion due to inconvenience?...

Btw... Abortion due to rape can be made a special exception.

In Islam, in all schools of thought, if a woman was raped she is allowed to abort the pregnancy.

In Islam abortion is allowed 1) if it’s a valid reason like it dangers the mother’s life OR 2) if she was raped.
This too it must be done before the limbs starts to develop so in the first 40 UNLESS a valid excuse like danger to life.
Islam strictly prohibits abortion if it’s just beacuse fear that the parents won’t be able to afford for the child or raise it.

Islam is anti abortion when it’s done without a valid reason. Fear of poverty IS NOT a valid excuse.
Otherwise Islam allows abortion provided there is a valid reason like rape or danger to mother’s life.

Why blame the woman for the violence against her ? And the child in the womb is part hers too so how can it be murdered ? Read my previous text just above.

 

[Clutch]

Why blame the woman for the violence against her ? And the child in the womb is part hers too so how can it be murdered ? Read my previous text just above.

Who is blaming violence against the woman?... Give me my quote saying that.... Stop saying BS about me.

 

[jamahir]

Who is blaming violence against the woman?... Give me my quote saying that.... Stop saying BS about me.

So what did you mean by this ?

Btw... Abortion due to rape can be made a special exception.

 

[sammuel]

~

Madness , that as usually will hurt only the poor.

In some countries it would be legal in some countries it wont.

Does anyone here really think that a the rich would have a problem going to another state and preform the abortion ? NO.

Those who would not ne able to to travel to a clinic would be the poor .

They would have to either bring an unwanted child that they cant support , or they will go to some unlicensed butcher , and risk their life during that procedure.

When you pass a law you need to think how would it effect the reality on the ground , and in this case - not good.

~

 

[jhungary]

Saw a lot of people talk about SCOTUS overturn Roe v Wade and think US is now criminalise abortion.....

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

You need to understand the text behind Roe v Wade and the decision made back in 1973 and why they are overturning it now. As I said before, this is a lot more than just Abortion and most likely the abortion right is probably the least infringed in the US.

What's Roe v Wade

Jane Roe (aka Norma McCorvey) wanted to have an abortion in Texas but back then Texas outlaw abortion with the only exception is that the mother life is in danger. Roe (or McCorvey) then sue the Texas District Attorney and alleged that Texas Government infringe on McCorvey civil liberty right on behalf of 14th Amendment thru "Right to Privacy" and the due process clause (which forbit the invasion of properties, live and liberty) by the government, Roe won the court case all the way to Texas Supreme Court. And both party brought the case to the US Supreme Court in 1973 for a final decision.

In the 1973 ruling. the court uphold that outlawing abortion would indeed violate the right to privacy, and it would affect both the life choice (as you have unwanted children) and cause the taxing of mental and physical health issue. But the ruling also stated that abortion right is NOT absolute, which mean it would have to balance between government ruling and on a case-by case status because of the foetus right.

In short, after Roe v Wade, Supreme Court determined that a foetus have right after the 3rd trimester (24 weeks) hence no abortion should be done after 24 weeks unless there are medical emergency that would harm the mother. But below 24 weeks, it is up to the mother choice to whether or not have an abortion.

SCOTUS Decision

This has not change until 2018, when Mississippi change the law from 24 weeks to 15 weeks, the only abortion clinic in the entire state then sue Mississippi quoting Roe v Wade. The case lead to an injunction from Federal Court to restrain from imposing the law (that change from 24 weeks to 15 weeks) and refer the matter back to US Supreme Court.

In essent, what the SOCTUS bench did in 2022 is rule that they do not have enough right to rule on the issue the first time, because the information is lacking on our constitution, which then vacated the ruling of Roe v Wade and nullify the entire precedent, instead of sending the original case back to lower court, SCOTUS said they will basically just set aside the verdict as if it never even happened. Which mean there were no Roe v Wade.

So What does that mean?

The long story extremely short is SCOTUS does not see abortion issue is a constitution issue, and pushes the responsibility back to State Government. which mean there are no federal protection on Abortion right (hence no free to abort until 24 weeks) and each state would have make up their own ruling regarding Abortion and what is exception to the rule.

Already 6 states criminalised abortion while California and New York already said they will be sanctuary state. And 13 other state would have automatic trigger to end legalised abortion after the ruling, which left the remaining state to form their own legal opinion on the issue.

The problem is not really about abortion that much, because people want one can still have 1 in state that allow it. The problem with this ruling, as I said is that the SCOTUS set aside the case as if it never happended. Bear in mind, Roe v Wade was a trial case, which have a verdict, which mean that WAS a precedent, you can of course overturn the verdict but you cannot do so without prejudice, which mean they should send the original case or Dobbs vs Jackson Women's Health Organization (The 2018 case that trigger the review) back to the lower court and let them decide, instead of getting it struck out completely with a 5 against 4 verdict.

 

[RealNapster]

What is the Islamic view on abortion guys?
both Shia, Sunni or perspective of different sects would be appreciated

@cocomo

No abortion. Infact Islam don't even allow masturbation and consider it killing life.

 

[sammuel]

The problem is not really about abortion that much, because people want one can still have 1 in state that allow it.

I think this would specially hurt the poor,

Exactly the part of population that already suffers from issues of not being able to support another child. It would be harder for them to travel to some fancy private clinic in another state.

They would have to either bring an unwanted child that they cant support , or I am afraid that many will go to some unlicensed butcher , and risk their life during that procedure.

I doubt a law that so clearly , effects mostly the weaker part of the population, would be a good idea.

Hope the different states would take that into account.

~

 

[jhungary]

I think this would specially hurt the poor,

Exactly the part of population that already suffers from issues of not being able to support another child. It would be harder for them to trave to some fancy private clinic in another state.

They would have to either bring an unwanted child that they cant support , or I am afraid that many they will go to some unlicensed butcher , and risk their life during that procedure.

I doubt a law that so clearly , effects mostly the weaker part of the population, would be a good idea. Hope the different states would take that into account.

~

Nah, NY and California would not let that happen, there are already pro-choice group that said they will fly women out and pay for the abortion operation in one of those Blue State to do the procedure

If the women want Abortion, they will get them, I mean, its not like they waited til 24 or 30 weeks before they abort, they can still travel if and when they made up their mind.

This really does not affect abortion as much, this is more of a constitutional crisis.

 

[sammuel]

Nah, NY and California would not let that happen, there are already pro-choice group that said they will fly women out and pay for the abortion operation in one of those Blue State to do the procedure

If the women want Abortion, they will get them, I mean, its not like they waited til 24 or 30 weeks before they abort, they can still travel if and when they made up their mind.

This really does not affect abortion as much, this is more of a constitutional crisis.

This is really Trump's doing. He knew exactly what judges he was appointing.

Are the Republican not worried that they would pay a price for that in the elections ?

I mean , About 71% of Americans - including majorities of Democrats and Republicans - say decisions about terminating a pregnancy should be left to a woman and her doctor, rather than regulated by the government.

Broad U.S. support for abortion rights at odds with Supreme Court's restrictions

The U.S. Supreme Court decision upending nearly a half century of legal protection for abortion rights is sharply at odds with public opinion in a country where a sizable majority of people support abortion rights.

www.reuters.com