Ukrainian Neo Nazis murder 43 Russians in Odessa

[notgoodenough]

You are talking in spacious vacuous terms. Please address the specific points I made.

What is Ukraine's trade with nato today and how do you specifically propose to raise that figure?

I'm being very specific. Purely economics. Please answer with facts. Not slogans. And I'm correct about Poland. Its clear macroeconomics isn't your strong point. Europe's economy is not healthy. At all. If that is the case why 20-40% unemployment among youth all over europe?

Italy France Spain Greece? How many defaults or near defaults in the past 5 years?

You might know branding and planes but finance and economics. No.

You are wrong with your assumption and your comment about Poland proves this. Poland has a very great economic boom and progress and can be a role model for other eastern european nations. The EU is the largest and strongest economies worldwide. We offer an gigantic market. Russia is poor and can offer not much. Russia had 25 years to make something but failed.

What you call bancrupt is just a recession of some EU states, a recession which already is on the way out. Evry economy has ups and downs. The chance to get investment from the EU and be able to have good relations to EU openes doors for Ukraine. The association agreement was a first step in that and Ukraine did sign it.

As i said, trying to cut Ukraine away from us will fail.

 

[boomslang]

.... Please address the specific points I made....

O.K. You were banned as 'jackoffsback', 'tryharder' and now you will soon be banned under this screen name, too. You are fighting awfully hard to stay on this site, aren't you, chief ? And you ARE NOT an American, either. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!

 

[MarkusS]

You are talking in spacious vacuous terms. Please address the specific points I made.

What is Ukraine's trade with nato today and how do you specifically propose to raise that figure?

I'm being very specific. Purely economics. Please answer with facts. Not slogans. And I'm correct about Poland. Its clear macroeconomics isn't your strong point. Europe's economy is not healthy. At all. If that is the case why 20-40% unemployment among youth all over europe?

Italy France Spain Greece? How many defaults or near defaults in the past 5 years?

You might know branding and planes but finance and economics. No.

Germany has almost no unemployment, same about the other north european countries. Spain and France recover slowly. Italy makes reforms and recovers too. Greece is also on the way up and started to show better numbers. What you see there is the typical up and down of evry economy.

Russia has no concept, no ideology and no future to offer. Does any country want be like russia? A oligarchy dictatorship? You want this as future for Ukraine? Ukrane wants freedom, free markets and friendship with EU, not the depressing weight of Putins grey empire.

What we need is a free trade zone for Ukraine. They can get european investments into their energy sector and infrastructure.

 

[flamer84]

You are making straw man arguments. Nobody tried to cut off Ukraine from Europe. The truth is the opposite. NATO tried to cut Ukraine away from Russia.

As to your point about the economy. Europe can't offer Ukraine anything. Read the EEA offer. If they could offer them anything as you say, why didn't they? Nato offered ukraine peanuts.

The truth is Europe is bankrupt. Over 20 trillion in debt, massive youth unemployment, shrinking gdps, they are subsidizing Poland, Greece and many other eastern European countries. Maybe 10 years ago europe could have offered anything.not now

Remember, Ukraine needs money to pay its gas, it needs money to fund its government. It needs around 20 billion minimum this year alone. You know how much europe offered? What was it? 1 , 2 billion?

You are speaking in mythological terms.

Last point about trade, do you understand how these things work? Ukraine can't substitute Russian markets for its exports because Europe won't buy their goods. Why? Because Ukraine needs at least a decade and possibly close to a hundred billion to put its industry in line with EU regulations and standards and even then, europe has no need for Ukrainian manufactured exports

These aren't vague politically motivated talking points. These are hard cold economic facts. The fantasy you are repeating is the fantasy nato sold ukraine, but the facts are something quite different

Russia offered 15 billion, no strings. What did europe offer? 1 billion?

Maybe Russia's economy isn't as big as Europe's combined but its obvious Russia cares more about Ukrainian business. Also Russia and China are a package deal. Don't forget that.

Last point. Just to clarify. Russia's economy is larger than Italy's. At least according to the world bank the IMF and the CIA.

Wrong!! At best ,the EE's are the only ones keeping themselves afloat.I'll take my country as an example,our account deficit is "only" 2% of the GDP and the money to balance this come from bank or IMF loans,not EU money.Don't get me started on the overall debt which is minuscule (30%,Bulgaria has something around 25) compared to Western countries.In fact ,Romania borrows money on the international markets at a rate smaller than most Western countries because,altough poorer GDP wise,it's economical health regarding budget deficit and general national debt is better.

So no,at best,the West is piggy banking on our highly skilled but cheap work force and our market(s).We are not on anybodys life support.

 

[notgoodenough]

Just to put the final nail in the coffin on the whole " Poland's economy is great " argument. Poland nationalized half the countries private pensions last year. They just took that money and added it to their balance sheet. Sure it makes the debt % appear to lower, but they had to steal private pensions to do it. Healthy economies don't steal private pension funds in order to make their balance sheet look better in order to be able to borrow more money in order to service ballooning national debt. Debt that is now somewhere around 55-60% and growing. Plus that % would be significantly higher if the wouldn't have nationalized the private pension funds. But they had no other choice. Their economy is so good that every year they have to borrow more and more money.

I'd go on but this isn't the place.

 

[flamer84]

Just to put the final nail in the coffin on the whole " Poland's economy is great " argument. Poland nationalized half the countries private pensions last year. They just took that money and added it to their balance sheet. Sure it makes the debt % appear to lower, but they had to steal private pensions to do it. Healthy economies don't steal private pension funds in order to make their balance sheet look better in order to be able to borrow more money in order to service ballooning national debt. Debt that is now somewhere around 55-60% and growing. Plus that % would be significantly higher if the wouldn't have nationalized the private pension funds. But they had no other choice. Their economy is so good that every year they have to borrow more and more money.

I'd go on but this isn't the place.

Yeah,Poland did that,but you know what Romania did in 2009 ? It slashed all budgetary salaries by 25%! Show me another country in Europe which did the same.EE might be saved because we are willing to sacrifice ourselves,because ,unlike westerners,we can edure such cuts.Maybe all those years of communism hardened us and now we can withstand economic harships without going hysterical....i saw ,if i remember correctly ,the portuguse going beserk for a 10% budgetary cut.

 

[notgoodenough]

You most certainly are on life support. The ECB is printing money like crazy. Draghi know what's really going on.

Public debt in the eurozone? Do you know its at around 100% of GDP? You do know this right?

Europe's combined GDP is about 20 trillion its combined public debtis closer to 22 trillion. Please explain how they can fund the debt without borrowing increasingly greater amounts of mmoney every year, thereby increasing the debt.

And yes, the USA, were in the same boat. Were both fucked. So don't think I'm just picking on europe. Just pointing out logical fallacies that Europe can somehow offer ukraine the world. If it could,why did they only offer 1 billion and a shitty trade deal? Fantasy vs reality.

Wrong!! At best ,the EE's are the only ones keeping themselves afloat.I'll take my country as an example,our account deficit is "only" 2% of the GDP and the money to balance this come from bank or IMF loans,not EU money.Don't get me started on the overall debt which is minuscule (30%,Bulgaria has something around 25) compared to Western countries.In fact ,Romania borrows money on the international markets at a rate smaller than most Western countries because,altough poorer GDP wise,it's economical health regarding budget deficit and general national debt is better.

So no,at best,the West is piggy banking on our highly skilled but cheap work force and our market(s).We are not on anybodys life support.

 

[flamer84]

You most certainly are on life support. The ECB is printing money like crazy. Draghi know what's really going on.

Public debt in the eurozone? Do you know its at around 100% of GDP? You do know this right?

Europe's combined GDP is about 20 trillion its combined public debtis closer to 22 trillion. Please explain how they can fund the debt without borrowing increasingly greater amounts of mmoney every year, thereby increasing the debt.

And yes, the USA, were in the same boat. Were both fucked. So don't think I'm just picking on europe. Just pointing out logical fallacies that Europe can somehow offer ukraine the world. If it could,why did they only offer 1 billion and a shitty trade deal? Fantasy vs reality.

You do no we're not in the Eurozone ? We were talking about EE.Look at our debt to GDP ratio,look at our budget deficit...all smaller,much smaller than Western Europe.

Oh please,it was always better.Russia's offer was perpetual slavery.Look at all the russian puppets.Find me a good example.Poverty,exterme poverty in fact it's the name of the game.


P.S. The EU is a good solution to the oligarch problem as they would be forced to clamp down hard on them as we were.Still,a long way to go but it''s a start believe me.

 

[notgoodenough]

Yeah,Poland did that,but you know what Romania did in 2009 ? It slashed all budgetary salaries by 25%! Show me another country in Europe which did the same.EE might be saved because we are willing to sacrifice ourselves,because ,unlike westerners,we can edure such cuts.Maybe all those years of communism hardened us and now we can withstand economic harships without going hysterical....i saw ,if i remember correctly ,the portuguse going beserk for a 10% budgetary cut.

Romania, is more of an exception than the rule. But Europe's economic problems are endemic to the system and they won't be solved. Austerity in all of europe means recession. They can't do that. The entire model is built around I finite growth.

Let me clue you in on something. You can't have infinite growth in a finite world. Anyhow I think k we've gotten somewhat off topic. Apologies

You do no we're not in the Eurozone ? We were talking about EE.Look at our debt to GDP ratio,look at our budget deficit...all smaller,much smaller than Western Europe.

Oh please,it was always better.Russia's offer was perpetual slavery.Look at all the russian puppets.Find me a good example.Poverty,exterme poverty in fact it's the name of the game.

Please explain how specifically it was better? Please give me specifics. Marcus could not, you seem to know more about the subject. How was it better?

You do know since ukraine, their economy went from bad to worse. Europe couldn't offer ukraine anything except an IMF loan with many strings attached.

Did you even read the EEA agreement? I did. So if you did, tell me what exactly was offered and what exactly was requested?

 

[boomslang]

...Let me clue you in on something....

You were banned as 'jackoffsback', 'tryharder' and now you will soon be banned under this screen name, too. You are fighting awfully hard to stay on this site, aren't you, chief ? And you ARE NOT an American, either. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!! Apologies.

 

[flamer84]

Anyhow I think k we've gotten somewhat off topic. Apologies

Ehh,still better than calling each others "fascists" or "russian bbq terrorists"...now we're talking like people.

But Europe's economic problems are endemic to the system and they won't be solved. Austerity in all of europe means recession. They can't do that. The entire model is built around I finite growth.

That's because western europeans are spoiled and won't forsake some privileges right now for the sake of future generations.They've gotten spoiled and the corporations greedy.Bad combo.

 

[MarkusS]

Romania, is more of an exception than the rule. But Europe's economic problems are endemic to the system and they won't be solved. Austerity in all of europe means recession. They can't do that. The entire model is built around I finite growth.

Let me clue you in on something. You can't have infinite growth in a finite world. Anyhow I think k we've gotten somewhat off topic. Apologies


Please explain how specifically it was better? Please give me specifics. Marcus could not, you seem to know more about the subject. How was it better?

You do know since ukraine, their economy went from bad to worse. Europe couldn't offer ukraine anything except an IMF loan with many strings attached.

Did you even read the EEA agreement? I did. So if you did, tell me what exactly was offered and what exactly was requested?

The world is not finite. We live in an infinite universe. There are no boarders. Russia lives on gas and oil alone and dont invest in science and future. But we do. Moon base, asteroid mining and so on will bring us foward and i deeply believe in this progress.

 

[notgoodenough]

It all sounds good on paper, putting it into practice is an entirely different animal.

You do no we're not in the Eurozone ? We were talking about EE.Look at our debt to GDP ratio,look at our budget deficit...all smaller,much smaller than Western Europe.

Oh please,it was always better.Russia's offer was perpetual slavery.Look at all the russian puppets.Find me a good example.Poverty,exterme poverty in fact it's the name of the game.


P.S. The EU is a good solution to the oligarch problem as they would be forced to clamp down hard on them as we were.Still,a long way to go but it''s a start believe me.

 

[flamer84]

Wow.. did I just witness someone being intimidated and threatened into silence here? Simply for giving opinions that were contrary to someone elses? Even if those opinions are not liked by some, this is a very chilling effect for a forum like this.

You got to admit it was slick.That's why i'm glad i'm still living in my country and not some western Hypsternistan.At my work job i'll get a raise for russophobia.

 

[boomslang]

It all sounds good on paper, ...

This sounds good on paper, too.....

You were banned as 'jackoffsback', 'tryharder' and now you will soon be banned under this screen name, too. You are fighting awfully hard to stay on this site, aren't you, chief ? And you ARE NOT an American, either. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!! Apologies.