Ukrainian Base Attacked by Russian Troops

[DV RULES]

Fire opened in Simferopol from one point at self-defence fighters, one member killed

One member of self-defence forces killed and two wounded by firing in the area of Kubanskaya street in Simferopol. The firing was conducted from one point in two directions: at self-defence fighters who were verifying a signal about the presence of armed men in an incomplete structure and in the direction of an Ukrainian military unit stationed nearby.


“The self-defence forces received on Tuesday a signal about a group of armed men being detected in a partially tenanted building in the area of the Kubanskaya street. When fighters of self- defence forces were checking the signal fire was opened at them,” a source in the Interior Ministry told CrimeaInform.

ITAR-TASS: Russia - Fire opened in Simferopol from one point at self-defence fighters, one member killed

 

[Superboy]

This might work in Syria, but it won't work in Russia. Russian military is high tech and self sufficient. No insurgent can escape from infrared. Their only fate is a bullet to the head.

 

[Nadi]

If they are the legitimate military force, then this is not what they are supposed to do when foreigners invade - they are supposed to defend the territory, not barricade themselves on the second floor. That's not what 'holding ground' means. It means preventing territory from falling into enemy hands, not locking themselves up and hoping that a saviour arrives before the Russians knock down the door.

P.S - What the US does or doesn't recognize doesn't really matter in this case. It is happening in Russia's backyard, and there is little that the US can or will do. USA is not coming, except if by ''coming'' you mean a few useless sanctions on low ranking govt officials.

Are you drunk? Lets explain some things to you. Ukraine's forces were at their peace time levels in the Crimea when this issue started; and because the entire attention was on Kiev and Ukraine did not feel threatened by Russia (because it always enjoyed friendly relations with Moscow and also because it already had agreement with Russia to lease the naval base to the Black Sea Fleet in addition to 1994 treaty that Moscow signed with the United States and Britain not to annex any part of Ukraine).

Therefore, small peacetime garrisons cannot do anything in the face of a massive invasion.

The Ukrainian troops did not barricade themselves, the Russian troops were besieging them (not to mention another International Law violation which is Russian troops removing their Russian Army insignia's from their uniforms allowing Moscow to say that they are Crimean self-defence forces --> a sad joke).

With Russian troops literally at the doorstep, I doubt if food and water management is on their minds at the moment.


And they are Russia, not Iraq or Afghanistan.

You may want to be hawkish according to your forum name, but you have to accept the reality - USA/NATO are not going to enter into a direct conflict with Russia for Crimea, or even for Ukraine as a whole. Cost benefit analysis and all that.

Umm, you might want to do some research before making tall claims. Most of the equipment of Russia's armed forces is obsolete and in disrepair. Russia has very limited modern equipment - all those fancy new fighter jet, missiles, etc that you hear about on the news.

Russia's nukes are the only thing keeping NATO from walking over to the Kremlin and spanking Putin for his megalomaniac behavior.

 

[Nadi]

Yanukovych himself voiced request to Russia to send troops at the conference in Rostov. This request was also confirmed by Churkin at the UN meeting.
Ukraine parliament is not quite legitimate, so its decisions are not legally binding.
Prove to me that Putin lied. Nope credible evidence that it was the Russian military, and not the local self-defense provided security for the population of Crimea. In addition, the legitimate authority of Sevastopol and the Crimea appealed to Russia for military assistance.
All voters who spoke in 2010 year for an alliance with Russia voted for Yanukovich.

Who are you really trying to fool? Yanukovich is Putin's patsy. He came to power on the basis of Russian support, especially the Ukrainian elite who allied themselves with the Oligarchs in Moscow and he immediately did Russia's bidding by putting Yulia Tymoshenko on trial to get rid of his opposition. If Yanukovich was such an upright Ukrainian leader, he would've stayed in Ukraine and faced the music like Tymoshenko did by serving time in jail. Instead, Yanukovich made a bee line to Moscow to his sugardaddy Putin.

The referendum on Crimea's status was a sham! A truly democratic referendum would have been held in a neutral environment, not with ballot boxes and polling stations draped in Russian flags and paint; & certainly not with Russian troops harassing and intimidating people. A truly democratic referendum would've asked Crimeans to choose between three options:

1) Do you want Crimea to become independent?
2) Do you want Crimea to join Russia?
3) Do you want Crimea to remain a part of Ukraine - current status-quo?

And lo & behold! Question number 3 was missing on purpose! Therefore, not a single pro-Ukrainian Crimean voted in the referendum, it was boycotted.

And by the way, Russian troops removing their Russian Army insignia's from their uniforms so that Putin can rant that they are 'Crimean self-defence forces' is not only a serious violation of International Law but also a sad joke if you actually want us to believe that.

 

[Pakistani E]

US please.

 

[UnChosen]

Who are you really trying to fool? Yanukovich is Putin's patsy. He came to power on the basis of Russian support, especially the Ukrainian elite who allied themselves with the Oligarchs in Moscow and he immediately did Russia's bidding by putting Yulia Tymoshenko on trial to get rid of his opposition. If Yanukovich was such an upright Ukrainian leader, he would've stayed in Ukraine and faced the music like Tymoshenko did by serving time in jail. Instead, Yanukovich made a bee line to Moscow to his sugardaddy Putin.

The referendum on Crimea's status was a sham! A truly democratic referendum would have been held in a neutral environment, not with ballot boxes and polling stations draped in Russian flags and paint; & certainly not with Russian troops harassing and intimidating people. A truly democratic referendum would've asked Crimeans to choose between three options:

1) Do you want Crimea to become independent?
2) Do you want Crimea to join Russia?
3) Do you want Crimea to remain a part of Ukraine - current status-quo?

And lo & behold! Question number 3 was missing on purpose! Therefore, not a single pro-Ukrainian Crimean voted in the referendum, it was boycotted.

And by the way, Russian troops removing their Russian Army insignia's from their uniforms so that Putin can rant that they are 'Crimean self-defence forces' is not only a serious violation of International Law but also a sad joke if you actually want us to believe that.

The second option on the referendum is all all questions rolled into one. It's basically worded that way to leave more options if the people votes not to join Russia.

If the majority votes to go back to the 1992 status then there will immediately be another referendum with more choices like independence, complete autonomy within Ukraine, or expanded rights.

So the referendum was perfectly fine...its just designed to go down the options one by one as oppose to having a huge list of options. Frankly it didn't matter in the end because the majority voted to join Russia anyways.

Seriously, the fault lies in this incompetent interim government provoking Eastern Ukraine by proposing stupid laws in the first place. If you know half the country can't stand your party before the coup the first thing you should do is to have a coherent plan to persuade the citizens....NOT proposing to ban languages and cut pensions.

 

[Nadi]

The second option on the referendum is all all questions rolled into one. It's basically worded that way to leave more options if the people votes not to join Russia.

If the majority votes to go back to the 1992 status then there will immediately be another referendum with more choices like independence, complete autonomy within Ukraine, or expanded rights.

So the referendum was perfectly fine...its just designed to go down the options one by one as oppose to having a huge list of options. Frankly it didn't matter in the end because the majority voted to join Russia anyways.

Seriously, the fault lies in this incompetent interim government provoking Eastern Ukraine by proposing stupid laws in the first place. If you know half the country can't stand your party before the coup the first thing you should do is to have a coherent plan to persuade the citizens....NOT proposing to ban languages and cut pensions.

Wrong. A referendum is called a referendum for precisely the reason that the voting public is given 2 or 3 explicit options to vote on. Saying, 'oh it was implied' and 'a second referendum would've been held' is just a sad attempt at creating a smokescreen. And a referendum cannot be held outside the bounds of the constitution of the country it is being held in.

It does matter because Ukraine's sovereignty is guaranteed by the Russia's agreement with United States, and Britain. In return for giving up its nuclear weapons, Ukraine, the United States of America, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, pledging to respect Ukraine territorial integrity. A pledge that now lies broken by Russia's invasion of Crimea.

There will be serious consequences for Russia; an entire nation is going pay for the ego of one man, Putin.

 

[Superboy]

It does matter because Ukraine's sovereignty is guaranteed by the Russia's agreement with United States, and Britain. In return for giving up its nuclear weapons, Ukraine, the United States of America, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, pledging to respect Ukraine territorial integrity. A pledge that now lies broken by Russia's invasion of Crimea.

There will be serious consequences for Russia; an entire nation is going pay for the ego of one man, Putin.

In this world, power talks. Out of the nearly 200 countries in the world, only 5 have power at the global level. These are China, Russia, the USA, the UK, France. So what if it was an invasion? So what if it was an annexation? What's anyone going to do about it?

 

[Nadi]

In this world, power talks. Out of the nearly 200 countries in the world, only 5 have power at the global level. These are China, Russia, the USA, the UK, France. So what if it was an invasion? So what if it was an annexation? What's anyone going to do about it?

You will see.. The game has just begun. Your obvious fatalistic approach to world politics is quite sad. Russia is only at the P5 table cuz of its nukes and pre-World War history & geopolitics. Russia has no 'power' today; except for sabre rattling from behind its nuclear arsenal. China is actually more powerful than Russia. Russia is a joke, especially since Putin took over.

 

[UnChosen]

Wrong. A referendum is called a referendum for precisely the reason that the voting public is given 2 or 3 explicit options to vote on. Saying, 'oh it was implied' and 'a second referendum would've been held' is just a sad attempt at creating a smokescreen. And a referendum cannot be held outside the bounds of the constitution of the country it is being held in.

It does matter because Ukraine's sovereignty is guaranteed by the Russia's agreement with United States, and Britain. In return for giving up its nuclear weapons, Ukraine, the United States of America, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, pledging to respect Ukraine territorial integrity. A pledge that now lies broken by Russia's invasion of Crimea.

There will be serious consequences for Russia; an entire nation is going pay for the ego of one man, Putin.

If they put a yes or no referendum it wouldn't have changed anything. Majority of people voted to join Russia! Even if they didn't they would just keep having referendums to get as far away from Kyiv's control as possible because the interim government is not competent enough to earn the trust of the entire country.

As for the constitution...it was already violated during the coup in the capital, so the ground of the interim government is already weak to begin with. Frankly I was surprised that Crimea actually did a referendum as opposed to just storming the region and declare secession by force.

The current Ukrainian constitution is a joke when it comes to granting autonomy and independence. Yeah you are autonomous...but your major decisions need to be "approved" by the central government before you can "autonomously" execute them. There's no way for Crimea to get away from Kyiv normally in the current Ukrainian constitution...and there's no way the current right wing government will let it change.

 

[janon]

Are you drunk? Lets explain some things to you. Ukraine's forces were at their peace time levels in the Crimea when this issue started; and because the entire attention was on Kiev and Ukraine did not feel threatened by Russia (because it always enjoyed friendly relations with Moscow and also because it already had agreement with Russia to lease the naval base to the Black Sea Fleet in addition to 1994 treaty that Moscow signed with the United States and Britain not to annex any part of Ukraine).

Therefore, small peacetime garrisons cannot do anything in the face of a massive invasion.

The Ukrainian troops did not barricade themselves, the Russian troops were besieging them (not to mention another International Law violation which is Russian troops removing their Russian Army insignia's from their uniforms allowing Moscow to say that they are Crimean self-defence forces --> a sad joke).

Did you actually read the article before posting? The article clearly states that the troops have barricaded themselves on the second floor. The only person drunk is you, if you failed to read the OP before shooting.

Umm, you might want to do some research before making tall claims. Most of the equipment of Russia's armed forces is obsolete and in disrepair. Russia has very limited modern equipment - all those fancy new fighter jet, missiles, etc that you hear about on the news.

Russia's nukes are the only thing keeping NATO from walking over to the Kremlin and spanking Putin for his megalomaniac behavior.

What exactly was the tall claim in my post? The only claim was that US or NATO will not enter into a war with Russia in their backyard, and that is true. Sure, it could be because of their nukes - whatever the reason, the fact remains that they have enough tools up their kitty to deter anybody from attacking them. Tell me what was the so called tall claim in that post of mine.

 

[Nadi]

If they put a yes or no referendum it wouldn't have changed anything. Majority of people voted to join Russia! Even if they didn't they would just keep having referendums to get as far away from Kyiv's control as possible because the interim government is not competent enough to earn the trust of the entire country.

As for the constitution...it was already violated during the coup in the capital, so the ground of the interim government is already weak to begin with. Frankly I was surprised that Crimea actually did a referendum as opposed to just storming the region and declare secession by force.

The current Ukrainian constitution is a joke when it comes to granting autonomy and independence. Yeah you are autonomous...but your major decisions need to be "approved" by the central government before you can "autonomously" execute them. There's no way for Crimea to get away from Kyiv normally in the current Ukrainian constitution...and there's no way the current right wing government will let it change.

Just because you don't agree with the constitution, doesn't make it into a joke. If it was such a joke, why was Yanukovich ruling Ukraine under that constitution? Why didn't his govt tear it up n write up a new one? Your arguments are nothing but a smokescreen.

And it doesn't matter to a point what the referendum questions should've been; the point is such a referendum is illegal under Ukrainian constitution and international law. You cannot have a free n fair referendum with Russian troops patrolling all of Crimea after removing their Russian Army insignia - a major violation of international law & polling stations draped in Russian flags, and polling staff urging people to vote in a certain way, masked gunmen outside.. these are not conditions conducive to a free vote.

I didn't see any 'coup' happening in Kiev, perhaps you been watching too much Russian state television. A 'coup' is when the armed forces of a country seize power from the civilian leadership. Popular revolt is not called a 'coup' where the elected leader, Mr Yanukovich runs to Moscow rightaway to his masters instead of facing his people like Yulia Tymoshenko did.

 

[vostok]

Arrested sniper shot two people to death in Simferopol.
Crimean law enforcement officers detained a 17-year resident of Lviv region, which on Tuesday shot dead in Simferopol sniper rifle two people, the press service of Ministry of Internal Affairs.
Presumably , the detainee is a member of the nationalist organization " Right sector." After the shooting , he tried to escape, but law enforcement officers predict which way he can go out of the building , and the gunman was detained transmit "Vesti FM ".
Head of the Council of Ministers of Crimea Sergey Aksenov told RIA "News", which is in constant communication with law enforcement authorities to investigate the incident with the shooting of soldiers. According to him, the organization of the attack "acted maydan's model ." " They were shooting from one point in two places - to Ukrainian troops and our self-defence ", - said the Prime Minister of Crimea.
 ВЗГЛЯД / Задержан застреливший двух человек в Симферополе снайпер

 

[Hypersonicmissiles]

You will see.. The game has just begun. Your obvious fatalistic approach to world politics is quite sad. Russia is only at the P5 table cuz of its nukes and pre-World War history & geopolitics. Russia has no 'power' today; except for sabre rattling from behind its nuclear arsenal. China is actually more powerful than Russia. Russia is a joke, especially since Putin took over.

Russia is self-sufficient in energy, raw materials, agriculture, military weapons technology, space technology, has UNSC veto power, big economy with budget surpluses and very low debt, massive consumer market, massive nuclear arsenal with nuclear triads, self-sufficient in nearly ever major civilian technology.

Yup, Russia is definitely a massive power.

The only countries that have nuclear arsenal and nothing else are North Korea and Pakistan

Just because you don't agree with the constitution, doesn't make it into a joke. If it was such a joke, why was Yanukovich ruling Ukraine under that constitution? Why didn't his govt tear it up n write up a new one? Your arguments are nothing but a smokescreen.

And it doesn't matter to a point what the referendum questions should've been; the point is such a referendum is illegal under Ukrainian constitution and international law. You cannot have a free n fair referendum with Russian troops patrolling all of Crimea after removing their Russian Army insignia - a major violation of international law & polling stations draped in Russian flags, and polling staff urging people to vote in a certain way, masked gunmen outside.. these are not conditions conducive to a free vote.

I didn't see any 'coup' happening in Kiev, perhaps you been watching too much Russian state television. A 'coup' is when the armed forces of a country seize power from the civilian leadership. Popular revolt is not called a 'coup' where the elected leader, Mr Yanukovich runs to Moscow rightaway to his masters instead of facing his people like Yulia Tymoshenko did.

However much the CIA is paying you to post the pro-western propaganda, it better be enough to feed yourself and your family.

 

[vostok]

However much the CIA is paying you to post the pro-western propaganda, it better be enough to feed yourself and your family.

Comrade, no need to think stereotypically. Many people actually sincerely believe that the West - is the light for the world, and not purulent parasite sucking human and natural resources of the Earth to satisfy their consumption needs.