Ukraine to Upgrade Pakistan Air Force Il 78 Tanker Plane

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

how feasible is for Pakistan to get a refueler pod into a commercial jet..Boeing/airbus/third party/
Embraer

The PAF can obviously buy the UPAZ pods from Ukraine. The challenge is technical/engineering related because you have to configure that pod to the aircraft. This could require extensive rework of the plumbing and, possibly, testing for other issues (controls, etc @JamD ). You'll likely need the OEM involved.

If we had 'cash to kill' we could ask Embraer and Ukraine to develop something ... e.g., integrate the UPAZ pods to the C390 (which is half-way there because it already uses Cobham pods). Otherwise, we can ask for the A330 MRTT, and while expensive, I imagine we'd fly those for 50+ years anyways, so it's a worthwhile expense. One PAF person told me that the issue with the A330 MRTT isn't the PAF's interest, but Airbus DS denying it to us.

 

[ziaulislam]

The PAF can obviously buy the UPAZ pods from Ukraine. The challenge is technical/engineering related because you have to configure that pod to the aircraft. This could require extensive rework of the plumbing and, possibly, testing for other issues (controls, etc @JamD ). You'll likely need the OEM involved.

If we had 'cash to kill' we could ask Embraer and Ukraine to develop something ... e.g., integrate the UPAZ pods to the C390 (which is half-way there because it already uses Cobham pods). Otherwise, we can ask for the A330 MRTT, and while expensive, I imagine we'd fly those for 50+ years anyways, so it's a worthwhile expense. One PAF person told me that the issue with the A330 MRTT isn't the PAF's interest, but Airbus DS denying it to us.

i think for cheap requirements the best option is to wait for the Chinese..
but if we are serious in self-reliance than we need to go to Brazilians and join Embraer ..this can be an export option as well for some countries....'

one of these days even china might hold some strategic weapons under the pressure of india or the west..afterall money matters the most to the chinese..this is not Mao Zedong china..this is new captalist china

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

i think for cheap requirements the best option is to wait for the Chinese..
but if we are serious in self-reliance than we need to go to Brazilians and join Embraer ..this can be an export option as well for some countries....'

one of these days even china might hold some strategic weapons under the pressure of india or the west..afterall money matters the most to the chinese..this is not Mao Zedong china..this is new captalist china

The Embraer option is plausible. We know the C390 was designed for AAR, so the plumbing et. al shouldn't be an issue, it's more of a matter of switching from Cobham to UPAZ. I don't think it's as difficult as trying to mod A330s, so it'd be surprising if Embraer/Ukraine wouldn't do it if the PAF asked.

The cool thing about the C390 is that it uses commercial airline engines, so it's more fuel efficient and cheaper to maintain. Moreover, it can double as a medium-weight transport, so the PAF can use it to take some work off the C-130s as well (and reserve the C-130s for ops high-alt conditions, semi-prepared runways, etc).

 

[JamD]

The PAF can obviously buy the UPAZ pods from Ukraine. The challenge is technical/engineering related because you have to configure that pod to the aircraft. This could require extensive rework of the plumbing and, possibly, testing for other issues (controls, etc @JamD ). You'll likely need the OEM involved.

If we had 'cash to kill' we could ask Embraer and Ukraine to develop something ... e.g., integrate the UPAZ pods to the C390 (which is half-way there because it already uses Cobham pods). Otherwise, we can ask for the A330 MRTT, and while expensive, I imagine we'd fly those for 50+ years anyways, so it's a worthwhile expense. One PAF person told me that the issue with the A330 MRTT isn't the PAF's interest, but Airbus DS denying it to us.

As a principle one cannot integrate anything major (like a refueling pod) on a modern aircraft without recertifiying it for the new payload. Recertification used to be done with wind tunnel tests, scale model flights, and test flights. These days it is done mostly on computer-simulations/windtunnels and then with test flights. As you can probably guess we wouldn't have access to windtunnel-models/computer-simulations of A330 unless we invested a lot of time into developing an aerospace industry (over decades like for eg China) and asking it to do this (over a couple of years more) or asking the OEM for these things. A country like US, Russia, China could do the proposed integration by reverse engineering. We cannot and cannot afford to.

 

[ziaulislam]

The Embraer option is plausible. We know the C390 was designed for AAR, so the plumbing et. al shouldn't be an issue, it's more of a matter of switching from Cobham to UPAZ. I don't think it's as difficult as trying to mod A330s, so it'd be surprising if Embraer/Ukraine wouldn't do it if the PAF asked.

The cool thing about the C390 is that it uses commercial airline engines, so it's more fuel efficient and cheaper to maintain. Moreover, it can double as a medium-weight transport, so the PAF can use it to take some work off the C-130s as well (and reserve the C-130s for ops high-alt conditions, semi-prepared runways, etc).

and now that Boeing has run away it is an opportunity in offering....
it s time PAC starts doing something useful rather than just overhauling things..
JVs is the way forward for a country like pakistan...

C390 is also a replacement for c130 with confirm orders..pakistan can also solve its transport issue and geta share in manufacturing

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

As a principle one cannot integrate anything major (like a refueling pod) on a modern aircraft without recertifiying it for the new payload. Recertification used to be done with wind tunnel tests, scale model flights, and test flights. These days it is done mostly on computer-simulations/windtunnels and then with test flights. As you can probably guess we wouldn't have access to windtunnel-models/computer-simulations of A330 unless we invested a lot of time into developing an aerospace industry (over decades like for eg China) and asking it to do this (over a couple of years more) or asking the OEM for these things. A country like US, Russia, China could do the proposed integration by reverse engineering. We cannot and cannot afford to.

Yep. So from a policy standpoint, it's an issue of looking for OEMs/countries desperate enough for orders who're equipped for the task, like Brazil. Brazil already has a refueling-capable platform (C390), so for it the issue is only one of switching the pod/subsystem, but it can carry out all of the necessary tests, etc. Question is, why would it do this? Well, if the PAF comes up as its biggest prospective export customer (e.g., 12-16 planes), it'll do it.

Unfortunately, our decision makers are of the, "a war can happen at any time" mentality, so they give no quarter to desperate OEMs with semi-ready designs, no matter the ToT on offer. We snubbed South Africa, Ukraine, Poland, etc -- and instead of partnering with Turkey when the opportunity was there (10 years ago), we became their clients.

 

[Bossman]

This will happen if/when China configures a tanker variant and approves it for export.

Needs better engines

 

[nomi007]

 

[monitor]

This will happen if/when China configures a tanker variant and approves it for export.

Y-20 tanker and AEW&C variants in the pipeline, senior PLAAF officer confirms

Tanker version of Y-20 in flight near XAC’s main facilities. Satellite imagery first emerged of the type in November 2018. Key capability for the future of the PLAAF
China already tested a tanker variant. Nobody won't be surprised if Pakistan become the lunch customer.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

This will happen if/when China configures a tanker variant and approves it for export.

Tanker variant of China’s Y-20 set to emerge: report

New variants of the Xian Y-20 strategic transport look set to make their public debut, as the four-engined type assists relief operations related to the Coronavirus outbreak in the city of Wuhan.

In addition to the transport variant, a tanker variant and an airborne early warning (AEW) variant are planned, according to a Global Times report citing Teng Hui, who commands an air force aviation regiment and is a Y-20 pilot

 

[khanasifm]

Pakistan Air Force should induct 4-5 Y20 as well as it'll reduce the burden on IL 78 as IL 78 is also being used as Cargo aircraft not just refulers

View attachment 638757

Y-20 still uses il-76/78 old Engines Which are not fuel efficient and with low mtbo

unless Chinese engine comes onboard ws-20 or better fuel efficient engine are installed now one will buy outside

 

[nahtanbob]

like most russian aircraft the il-78 might not be easy or cheap to maintain

 

[_NOBODY_]

 

[devil302]

Do they refuel Thunders too?

They refuel every A/C except F16

 

[Pogical Thinking]

Unless Y-20 comes with newer engines and capability to refuel f-16's, They don't add much-enhanced capability, Like Bilal said before, A330 MRTT Is the way to go...