Ukraine to Upgrade Pakistan Air Force Il 78 Tanker Plane

[Shabi1]

PAF uses the IL78s for cargo airlifting more than refueling. As such the Airbus A330 MRTT although the best tanker option won't give the same type of cargo loading capability which is the role these aircraft are primarily doing. Since so much being spent on overhauls for these aircraft I doubt replacing them should be a consideration or a urgency.

PAF needs a modern replacement for the C-130s or a complimenting lifter with similar capability. As such in my opinion PAF should look into the Embraer KC-390/C-390, both in tanker and cargo only configurations as it would be able to replace the C-130s and add additional refueling capability with a lower operational cost than the IL-78s. It seems like the best and most economical bet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_C-390_Millennium

 

[araz]

Unless Y-20 comes with newer engines and capability to refuel f-16's, They don't add much-enhanced capability, Like Bilal said before, A330 MRTT Is the way to go...

In their current form they cater to upto 150 plus fighters and you do not think this is important? Most bases in the Indo Pak arena are 250miles apart. The only logical reasoning for using air refuellers is for platforms like JFT and M3/5s which on a full loadout need to fly with 1/2 tank to get going, get tanked up in air and then go and return from destination with further refuelling if required.
I agree that pre 52 block 16s might need a similar strategy but I suspect PAF MAY play aggressor with the above 2 fighters and play the high covering role with the 16s. They may therefore not need the same sort of support from air fuellers like the other 2 mentioned platforms. In any case no one currently wants to sell us a hose and rogue system so the discussion is mute in any case.
A

PAF uses the IL78s for cargo airlifting more than refueling. As such the Airbus A330 MRTT although the best tanker option won't give the same type of cargo loading capability which is the role these aircraft are primarily doing. Since so much being spent on overhauls for these aircraft I doubt replacing them should be a consideration or a urgency.

PAF needs a modern replacement for the C-130s or a complimenting lifter with similar capability. As such in my opinion PAF should look into the Embraer KC-390/C-390, both in tanker and cargo only configurations as it would be able to replace the C-130s and add additional refueling capability with a lower operational cost than the IL-78s. It seems like the best and most economical bet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_C-390_Millennium

Unit cost at 50 million. Uruguay bought 5 for a billion. So unless we have infrastructure set up we will struggle to pay the cost. If we do have infrastructure we might get it cheaper. However dangle that Infront of Lockmart and I bet you you will get a offer you wont be able to recuse

 

[Shabi1]

In their current form they cater to upto 150 plus fighters and you do not think this is important? Most bases in the Indo Pak arena are 250miles apart. The only logical reasoning for using air refuellers is for platforms like JFT and M3/5s which on a full loadout need to fly with 1/2 tank to get going, get tanked up in air and then go and return from destination with further refuelling if required.
I agree that pre 52 block 16s might need a similar strategy but I suspect PAF MAY play aggressor with the above 2 fighters and play the high covering role with the 16s. They may therefore not need the same sort of support from air fuellers like the other 2 mentioned platforms. In any case no one currently wants to sell us a hose and rogue system so the discussion is mute in any case.
A


Unit cost at 50 million. Uruguay bought 5 for a billion. So unless we have infrastructure set up we will struggle to pay the cost. If we do have infrastructure we might get it cheaper. However dangle that Infront of Lockmart and I bet you you will get a offer you wont be able to recuse

The power plant is same as the one used on Airbus A320 so some support offset is there for C-390.
A330 MRTT costs $300m and a new C-130J costs $100-167m so has a strong case.

 

[araz]

The power plant is same as the one used on Airbus A320 so some support offset is there for C-390.
A330 MRTT costs $300m and a new C-130J costs $100-167m so has a strong case.

Thank you for your helpful post. The problem for Paklands maybe asking for a platform able to provide both forms of air refuelling. I do not know whether this has been done on a single platform before. I also wonder at what numbers of 16s will an air refueller become a cost effective necessity. Any ideas because that leads to other questions which can forward this debate.
A

 

[ziaulislam]

PAF uses the IL78s for cargo airlifting more than refueling. As such the Airbus A330 MRTT although the best tanker option won't give the same type of cargo loading capability which is the role these aircraft are primarily doing. Since so much being spent on overhauls for these aircraft I doubt replacing them should be a consideration or a urgency.

PAF needs a modern replacement for the C-130s or a complimenting lifter with similar capability. As such in my opinion PAF should look into the Embraer KC-390/C-390, both in tanker and cargo only configurations as it would be able to replace the C-130s and add additional refueling capability with a lower operational cost than the IL-78s. It seems like the best and most economical bet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_C-390_Millennium

you can also negotiate for local assembly or parts manufacturing..they are desperate for orders..
i wouldn't be surprised that if 20+ order ends up with a decent amount of ToT and help PAC jump-start their industry..(after all Portugal got decent parts deal with just an order of 6)...we should also talk to them for jets for PIA ..their regional jets fit great into PIA or other local airliners short-haul requirements to GULF

may cost 2-3b dollars but considering it will be a long term solution to our c130 problem with a simultaneous solution to our refueler problem..it is worth it..

better than buying any European system..

 

[Trailer23]

The article states: Repair & Modernize

I get the 'Repair' part - but what exactly is there to modernize?

Avionics?

Here are some images I found of Il-76MD-90A Tanker. Beats the Radioshack Dinosaur-age analog Flight Deck we currently have.

Bottomline, if we're paying for the repairs & modernizing 'em - I see little hope for acquiring anything in the near future.

@ziaulislam @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The article states: Repair & Modernize

I get the 'Repair' part - but what exactly is there to modernize?

Avionics?

Here are some images I found of Il-76MD-90A Tanker. Beats the Radioshack Dinosaur-age analog Flight Deck we currently have.

Bottomline, if we're paying for the repairs & modernizing 'em - I see little hope for acquiring anything in the near future.

@ziaulislam @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

It can be a standard, pre-scheduled MRO run. The PAF got the IL-78s for around $80-90 m (all four of them), so they're not on the hook for any existing costs. The issue is more of not finding a replacement, especially in its role as a tanker (because most suppliers aren't willing to sell us those systems).

@Shabi1 @araz @ziaulislam

Portugal is paying around $200 m per KC390 with a 12-year support/maintenance package. That is a competitive price point for a brand new platform with only 1-2 other users. The Brazilian government is also offering credit and loans to buyers of the system, so the earlier one comes, the more benefits they'll get I imagine.

We can cross-leverage quite a few programs with Embraer.

So, for example, we can use the ERJ-145 as a EA/ECM/ELINT aircraft to complement the Falcon DA-20s (maybe even configure them with Turkey's HAVASOJ). Even the Army can start experimenting with ISTAR aircraft.

Likewise, the PN can also look at working with Embraer for its LRMPA. In 2017, Embraer said it was willing to configure its E190-E2 (see here) if the customer asks for it. Embraer has its own flight testing, controls, etc infrastructure, so it's capable of the task. @JamD

Finally, we can take it to other directions as well, e.g., bring some of the E190/E195's supply chain to Pakistan (e.g., d-level MRO, manufacture a serious % of the aircraft, etc) if we'd opt to acquire those planes for PIA.

 

[airomerix]

Its an avionics and drogue assembly upgrade. Nothing fancy. Wont make it any more lethal but a little more robust and easier to fly. It's pretty outdated for 2020 standards.

 

[Incog_nito]

This one and Japanese one can be a good option for PAF to replace some C-130s.

 

[Ultima Thule]

These r aged platforms
Need more maintenance

Better to buy Chinese made new transport aircraft based tankers

You mean Y-20 tanker version they are in testing and in development phases

 

[Incog_nito]

This upgrade showcase that IL-78 has shown good performance for PAF and PAF is showing commitment towards the aircraft for another 15 years (or 20 years).

PAF Transport Fleet is facing many issues, as we all are discussing in various threads. PAF can focus on fleet like this and I'm sure there are several countries that can show support in terms of easy loan schemes for PAF.

PAF Transport Fleet can be like this:

• 12 IL-78 Multirole Aircraft (Upgraded)
• 12-16 C-130J30 / Any other Twin Jet-Powered Multirole Aircraft
• 12-14 C-27J / C-295 Multirole Aircraft

IL-78 Multirole Aircraft is really versatile and I'm sure it's operational cost is affordable.

 

[air marshal]

https://falcons.pk/photo/Ilyushin-Il-78MP-Midas/2136

 

[Sunny4pak]

Pakistan Air Force should induct 4-5 Y20 as well as it'll reduce the burden on IL 78 as IL 78 is also being used as Cargo aircraft not just refulers

View attachment 638757

PAF will induct Y20 in Future when the Refueler version would be available.