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UK, Scotland announce referendum terms that could see Britain break up

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UK, Scottish authorities to announce terms of referendum that could see breakup of Britain | Fox News

EDINBURGH, Scotland – It's not a meeting David Cameron is likely to enjoy.

The British prime minister is due to visit the leader of Scotland's separatist administration on Monday to agree the terms of a referendum that could break up the United Kingdom — the country Cameron leads.

Cameron does not want to be the leader who presides over the demise of the 300-year-old political union between England and its northern neighbor. But, practically, there is little he can do to stop politicians in semiautonomous Scotland asking voters whether they want to break free.

With Scotland, like much of Europe, facing recession and economic uncertainty, the answer is hard to predict.

"I can't find a job and my prospects are slim," said Sally Murray, an unemployed office worker in Edinburgh. "I've got nothing to lose. Perhaps my prospects would improve by going independent."

Officials from London and Edinburgh have been meeting for weeks to hammer out details of a vote. Sticking points included the date and the wording of the question.

On Friday the two sides said they had reached a deal, which is expected to be approved Monday by Cameron and Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond.

It is likely to call for a referendum in October 2014, as Salmond's nationalists had desired. Cameron and other pro-union politicians had pressed for the vote to be held earlier, because opinion polls show that only between a quarter and a third of Scots favor splitting the nation.

The referendum will involve a single yes-no question on leaving the United Kingdom, as Cameron's government wished. Salmond's Scottish Nationalist Party favored including a third option of greater autonomy short of full independence.

The deal is likely to give 16- and 17-year-olds votes, another proposal backed by the Scottish nationalists. The voting age in other British elections is 18.

Scotland and England have a complex relationship. They fought one another for centuries, and Scottish children are still raised on tales of Robert the Bruce and William "Braveheart" Wallace. The latter's story was told, with Hollywood artistic license, in the Mel Gibson film "Braveheart." Many Scots are also brought up in the Unionist tradition and have a strong affinity with England and the monarchy.

The two countries united in 1707 to form Great Britain, with a common monarch, currency and London-based government. (Wales is also part of Great Britain which, along with Northern Ireland, constitutes the state known as the United Kingdom).

Scotland gained significant autonomy after voting in 1997 to set up a Scottish Parliament with substantial powers. But Salmond's party, which has a majority in the Edinburgh legislature, wants to go further and make the nation of 5 million people an independent country within the European Union.

Salmond has successfully marketed a kind of aspirational nationalism — a sort of Scottish Scandinavia — that accentuates building a cozy social safety net and welcomes Scots of all races and creeds.

He insists independence will bring greater prosperity, allowing Scotland to better exploit its oil, gas and other energy resources.

But the European economic crisis has forced him to alter some of his pitch. He once said an independent Scotland would join the euro single currency. Now he says it would retain the pound, though it's unclear whether London would agree to that.

There are many more thorny questions raised by the prospect of separation, including the future of Scotland's nuclear submarine base and British Army regiments, and its European Union membership.

As in many divorces, there is also likely to be a battle over assets and liabilities.

The SNP says independent Scotland would be entitled to 90 percent of revenue from North Sea oil and gas — which stood at 6.5 billion pounds ($10.4 billion) in 2009-2010 — but only liable for 8 percent of 1 trillion pound ($1.67 trillion) national debt, based on Scotland's share of the U.K. population. The British government disputes that breakdown.

Pro-union politicians also claim Scotland lacks the economic clout to go it alone, pointing out that its two biggest financial institutions, the Royal Bank of Scotland and the Bank of Scotland, are now largely owned by British taxpayers after nearing collapse during the 2008 global banking crisis.

Then there are factors beyond the U.K.'s borders. Europe's crisis is boosting breakaway movements across the continent, from Belgium's Dutch-speaking Flanders to the Spanish region of Catalonia, whose regional parliament has voted to hold a referendum on self-determination.

"I don't want independence and I am concerned that people will think if Catalonia can do it, so can we," said David Mackenzie, an insurance salesman from Edinburgh.

For now, the "Yes" campaign — a loose coalition that includes Greens and Salmond's SNP — has the momentum. Its slick campaign effectively uses social media such as Facebook and Twitter to mobilize support.

The pro-union "Better Together" campaign, which includes both Cameron's Conservative Party and its arch-rival Labour, has had a lackluster start.

Political commentator and former Labour spin doctor Simon Pia said the pro-union side needed to raise its game.

"The SNP has stolen a march with its campaign which is very savvy and concentrates on positive reasons to split," he said.

He said pro-union forces "need to offer a vision of positive and emotional alternative to independence and not just focus on the negatives of the impact of separation."



Read more: UK, Scottish authorities to announce terms of referendum that could see breakup of Britain | Fox News

If Scotland should vote for independence, this of course would mean the breakup of the United Kingdom, meaning the United Kingdom, as a political entity, no longer exists. Of course a non-existing political entity can not have a place on the UN security council, and so there will actually be a spot open.

Looks like India's time has come?
 

You disagree? Or are you shaking your head in shock at the decision of the prime minister? If its the latter I agree! That the people of Britain would so willingly throw away what their grandfathers gave their lives for and what their ancestors of multiple generations before them fought to protect and glorify is rather shocking.
 
UK, Scottish authorities to announce terms of referendum that could see breakup of Britain | Fox News



If Scotland should vote for independence, this of course would mean the breakup of the United Kingdom, meaning the United Kingdom, as a political entity, no longer exists. Of course a non-existing political entity can not have a place on the UN security council, and so there will actually be a spot open.

Looks like India's time has come?


then if the UK is no more , India can claim the existing common wealth nations as it own and start a new NATO like alliance which it can head because now it is also on the UNSC.

Come on man :lol:
 
You disagree? Or are you shaking your head in shock at the decision of the prime minister? If its the latter I agree! That the people of Britain would so willingly throw away what their grandfathers gave their lives for and what their ancestors of multiple generations before them fought to protect and glorify is rather shocking.

But why you brought india here?
 
then if the UK is no more , India can claim the existing common wealth nations as it own and start a new NATO like alliance which it can head because now it is also on the UNSC.

Come on man :lol:

Do you deny that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will no longer be an existing political entity with the independence of Scotland?

As for the commonwealth of nations, they have the Queen of England as their nominal sovereign, not the UK, so they would still exist.
 
UK is not going to break up. There is no such demand for separation in UK.

We will see when the time nears up, it's 2012 and the elections are going to be held in October 2014 which I believe 98% people are going to vote in favour of UK
 
UK is not going to break up. There is no such demand for separation in UK.

We will see when the time nears up, it's 2012 and the elections are going to be held in October 2014 which I believe 98% people are going to vote in favour of UK

If the demand is so low I struggle to see how it would get to the point where a referendum is given on the issue! You are right it is still a few years off, but that also means its a few years to get the message out, a few years to fill today's 14 and 15 year olds heads about the issue.
 
Do you deny that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will no longer be an existing political entity with the independence of Scotland?

As for the commonwealth of nations, they have the Queen of England as their nominal sovereign, not the UK, so they would still exist.

Nooooo, I just don't see how Ireland not being a part of UK would disqualify UK from the UNSC. and under what legal premise?
 
Russia was the successor state of Soviet Union in UNSC, so will be United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland if Scotland declares independence.

But why you dragged India in the discussion, India would get UN membership when UNSC would be expanded, we have to wait till then.
 
Even with Scotland gone, the UK will still compromise of Northern Ireland, Wales and of course the most important: England. So the UK is here to stay.
 
Nooooo, I just don't see how Ireland not being a part of UK would disqualify UK from the UNSC. and under what legal premise?

Not ireland, Scotland. As for why, the whole name of the country is 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Great Britain (also simply called Britain) Is the island formerly composed of the countries of England, Wales, and Scotland before they were United to form the United Kingdom (that's the gist of it). Of course a successful referendum would mean the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain' part would be false, and so the political entity itself is false. England, Scotland, Wales, and a newly united Ireland will still be members of the United Nations of course, but the Security council will have an opening with the dissolution of the United Kingdom.
 
I dont think anything like this will happen. But if the UK fragments that will make me very happy :lol:
 
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