UAE, Pakistan and Mirage 2000-9s

[khanasifm]

with due respect

F16MLU is different to block 52 IN 3 CRUCIAL ASPECTS

Engine on Block 52 is more powerful
Different airframe designed for multi role capabilities not dog fighting
Completely different radar ie V68(9) V V66 on the MLU F16

A MLU gives an older F16 marginally improved BVR performance BUT IT IS FAR INFERIOR to a block 52

Is this fact or just a statement
Fact some from Lockheed Martin f16 program or any one from industry or x number of hours on the two type ?

With due respect

 

[Centurion2016]

Is this fact or just a statement
Fact some from Lockheed Martin f16 program or any one from industry or x number of hours on the two type ?

Read the article below

infact the F16 MLU does not even have JHMC system for cueing dog fights.

THIS IS WHY most of the worlds richer nations scrapping their older F16 for new block 52 OR gripens or f35

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article9.html

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

• I wonder what can those mirage 2000-9 can do which jf-17 blk 3 cant.
• I also doubt they would be cheaper option,

 

[BATMAN]

1) It's old and expensive to maintain.
2) Prone to sanction
3) Difficult to get parts like F-16 because not built in huge numbers like F-16s.
4) J-10 4.5 gen jet with TOT is available and no strings attached with it.
5) Can not be customize like JFT/J-10.
6) High life cycle cost due to closure of production and parts.
7) Can't face future threats posed by IAF i.e. Rafael & Super Sukhoi, means no True multi role capability required by PAF.

Again... its not a confirmed news, but suerly it has served as a tool for mominoon to unleash holy war at non-momin mirrages, otherwise the deal if and when it happens, is only going to deliver good to Pakistan.

Your listed points are just empty words, my reply for the sake of confused ones:

1) Pakistan is already maintaining around 80 of those so called expensive, if somehow PAF won this speculative lottery, most suerly older frames would be replaced with younger ones. If not than PAF will have no choice but to continue with same old !

2) If its difficult to buy parts, than its for all operators alike, but i doubt its difficult to buy parts. Without confidence PAF will not ask for it, specially when JF-17 is available. So all indicators tells your concerns are not accurate.
PAF probably will win lots of spares with the deal.

3) Integrating new platform is not cheap and neither fast. J10 has no place in PAF.

4) You have wrong imaginations in regard to the term 'life cycle cost'. However, i see capability of PAF multiplied.

5) No need to modify... they already come with all goodies and capabilites, need of which usually lead to modification.

6) War is not about dual of two wrestler and with mirrages 2000-9 we only got to improve, multifolds.

Goodbye.

 

[Basel]

Again... its not a confirmed news, but suerly it has served as a tool for mominoon to unleash holy war at non-momin mirrages, otherwise the deal if and when it happens, is only going to deliver good to Pakistan.

Your listed points are just empty words, my reply for the sake of confused ones:

1) Pakistan is already maintaining around 80 of those so called expensive, if somehow PAF won this speculative lottery, most suerly older frames would be replaced with younger ones. If not than PAF will have no choice but to continue with same old !

2) If its difficult to buy parts, than its for all operators alike, but i doubt its difficult to buy parts. Without confidence PAF will not ask for it, specially when JF-17 is available. So all indicators tells your concerns are not accurate.
PAF probably will win lots of spares with the deal.

3) Integrating new platform is not cheap and neither fast. J10 has no place in PAF.

4) You have wrong imaginations in regard to the term 'life cycle cost'. However, i see capability of PAF multiplied.

5) No need to modify... they already come with all goodies and capabilites, need of which usually lead to modification.

6) War is not about dual of two wrestler and with mirrages 2000-9 we only got to improve, multifolds.

Goodbye.

Where PAF is operating M2K9???
M2K or M2K9 will be totally new platform for PAF to maintain, totally different from M-3/5 we have.

• I wonder what can those mirage 2000-9 can do which jf-17 blk 3 cant.
• I also doubt they would be cheaper option,

Block-3 with AESA and other stuff will be better then Old M2Ks any version.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Where PAF is operating M2K9???
M2K or M2K9 will be totally new platform for PAF to maintain, totally different from M-3/5 we have.



Block-3 with AESA and other stuff will be better then Old M2Ks any version.

Thanks for the Reply. I thought so as well.

Btw why is chief of army calling the shots, isn't it supposed to be air chief who should be doing the decision making and planning of Air force ?

 

[Basel]

Thanks for the Reply. I thought so as well.

Btw why is chief of army calling the shots, isn't it supposed to be air chief who should be doing the decision making and planning of Aiforce ?

Only logic is that Army providing funds but still product purchase is responsibility of concerned force and MoD.

 

[BATMAN]

Where PAF is operating M2K9???
M2K or M2K9 will be totally new platform for PAF to maintain, totally different from M-3/5 we have.

Read my reply versus your aurgument.

You said before:
its old and therefore expensive to maintain!
High costs due to closure of production!

You say now:
totally different from Mirrage 3s and 5s we have

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Read the article below

infact the F16 MLU does not even have JHMC system for cueing dog fights.

THIS IS WHY most of the worlds richer nations scrapping their older F16 for new block 52 OR gripens or f35

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article9.html

The F-16 MLU has been configured with JHMCS for more than a decade now, this includes the PAF.

 

[General General]

Read the article below

infact the F16 MLU does not even have JHMC system for cueing dog fights.

THIS IS WHY most of the worlds richer nations scrapping their older F16 for new block 52 OR gripens or f35

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article9.html

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 60 F-16A/B MLU and Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits consisting of:

• APG-68v9 with Synthetic Aperture Radar or the APG-66(V)2 radar, which is a much smaller improvement on earlier F-16s. The APG-68 with SAR is far better at air to ground work, and can be used to monitor ground activity.
  
• Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
  
• AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems
  
• AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems
  
• Have Quick I/II Radios
  
• Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT)
  
• SNIPER (formerly known as AN/AAQ-33 PANTERA) targeting pod capability
  
• Reconnaissance pod capability
  
• Advanced Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Units (used for training exercises)
  
• MDE included in the MLU modification and structural upgrade kits
  
• 21 ALQ-131 Block II Electronic Countermeasures Pods without the Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or ALQ-184 Electronic Countermeasures Pods without DRFM;
  
• 60 ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management Systems;
  
• 1 Unit Level Trainer; and
  
• 10 APG-68v9 spare radar sets.
  
• Radars, modems, receivers, installation, avionics, spare and repair parts, support equipment, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, technical assistance, publications and technical documentation, system drawings, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, and other related logistics elements necessary for full program support.

The Government of Pakistan has requested engine improvements and structural modifications to its F-16 fleet, which includes a possible sale of:

• 14 F100-PW-220E engines
  
• 14 Falcon UP/STAR F-16 structural upgrade kits
  
• De-modification and preparation of 26 aircraft
  
• Support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, spares and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to support the program.

source
Further info about the PAF F16s can be found on the related threads here.

 

[MastanKhan]

lot of J10c fans here, it seem PAF is not interested. For J10, the best window had past. Can anyone tell me why the J10 order by Musharaff was cancelled? It's like a mystery in China.

Hi,

Mushy---being an army general wanted diversity---that is why he cancelled the saab awacs program in half and went for the chinese awacs---so that the sanctiosn stay away.

The air force had their kick backs from saab---and that got split in half.

Paf was mad at Mushy----when he left---they cancelled or ignored the deal---. It was purely for personal gains and nothing national about it---.

The reason being---than pakistan military was at battle stations since 2002---and there was a max / urgent need for a fighter aircraft---that has yet to be fulfilled even after 14 years---and we have lost many a battles against our arch enemy over these years---.

I can feel there is an anti- China force in Pakistan, hide in the deep. The people are very pro China, but some of the government officers hard to say. I'm a big fans of General Musharaf, always.

Hi,

You are right upto some extent---. It is same anti saudia arabia and anti emrirates force---.

The generak public does not see anything done for them---either by the saudis---the emiratis or the chinese---there are no chinese funded schools---colleges or hospitals in pakistan and neither are there from emirates and saudia---.

The arabs used to donate money---and our politicians plundered it---same with china---. China has not reached the grass root level.

For that reason---china must invest in some hospitals and schools in pakistan run by the chinese for the poor people---.

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

Mushy---being an army general wanted diversity---that is why he cancelled the saab awacs program in half and went for the chinese awacs---so that the sanctiosn stay away.

The air force had their kick backs from saab---and that got split in half.

Paf was mad at Mushy----when he left---they cancelled or ignored the deal---. It was purely for personal gains and nothing national about it---.

The reason being---than pakistan military was at battle stations since 2002---and there was a max / urgent need for a fighter aircraft---that has yet to be fulfilled even after 14 years---and we have lost many a battles against our arch enemy over these years---.



Hi,

You are right upto some extent---. It is same anti saudia arabia and anti emrirates force---.

The generak public does not see anything done for them---either by the saudis---the emiratis or the chinese---there are no chinese funded schools---colleges or hospitals in pakistan and neither are there from emirates and saudia---.

The arabs used to donate money---and our politicians plundered it---same with china---. China has not reached the grass root level.

For that reason---china must invest in some hospitals and schools in pakistan run by the chinese for the poor people---.

We didn't provide political asylum for Mushraff cause China follows the non interference policy, and we respect the result of Pakistan democracy. I want to tell you that General Musharraf has very high prestige in Chinese heart, me is one of them.

 

[MastanKhan]

Where PAF is operating M2K9???
M2K or M2K9 will be totally new platform for PAF to maintain, totally different from M-3/5 we have.



Block-3 with AESA and other stuff will be better then Old M2Ks any version.

Thanks for the Reply. I thought so as well.

Btw why is chief of army calling the shots, isn't it supposed to be air chief who should be doing the decision making and planning of Air force ?

Hi,

Bad question was answered by an equally bad answer---.

You kids are thoughtless---and do not have the ability to think.

I wrote about the INTEGRATION---it will take another 5-10 years to fully integrate the aesa equipped JF17---because it will not only have aesa but some other new goodies as well.

This is not a frigging F86 Sabre that the pilot would jump in the pilot's seat and take off like my Buddy's father did when he went to the U S to get the training.

These new first time built / manufactured 4 / 4.5 gen aircraft take time---take a lot of time to get used to---.

The chief of army is calling the shots---because in the last war at Kargil---the Paf was a no show---and with this coming clash---there is a good chance that it would still be ill-prepared and undercooked to fight an air war---.

We didn't provide political asylum for Mushraff cause China follows the non interference policy, and we respect the result of Pakistan democracy. I want to tell you that General Musharraf has very high prestige in Chinese heart, me is one of them.

Hi,

There was no rreason for china to offer asylum to Gen Mushy---but china needs to work on the grass root level in pakistan.

It may chose not to do so anywhere else in the world---but the situation with pakistan and china is totally different---.

China needs a totally different approach and policy for pakistan---and it needs to re-think and re-adjust its priorities---chinese hospitals and schools are a must---run by the chinese---. Building bridges amongst the people is not an easy job---but for them to fight for you and ally with you---you have to take things to a different level.

I will probably get banned

BUT WHY DO YOUR people keep looking to buy secondhand used fighters.

I cant think of any air force in the world that has acquired or attempted to acquire so many used second hand fighters deemed obsolete or no longer relevant to modern war

in the 1990s PAF acquired old mirage 5 and kept them going even up to day

recently you have now started to look at early model F16s

Now uae mirage2000/9 you seem to be front of the line.

Have you ever considered why the likes of Jordan or UAE are looking to replace them ?

Hi,

Because this second hand M2k is far superior to anything that is out there available to pakistan for the price---and very easy to integrate---.

And the most important thing of all---it brings in an immediate force multiplier into the arena---.

Suppose---the emiratis agree to give 25 of the M2K9's to pakistan right away---which would mean that pak military has covered its arabian sea flank with the likes of a 1 1/2 division of crack fighting force in the blink of the eye---.

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

Bad question was answered by an equally bad answer---.

You kids are thoughtless---and do not have the ability to think.

I wrote about the INTEGRATION---it will take another 5-10 years to fully integrate the aesa equipped JF17---because it will not only have aesa but some other new goodies as well.

This is not a frigging F86 Sabre that the pilot would jump in the pilot's seat and take off like my Buddy's father did when he went to the U S to get the training.

These new first time built / manufactured 4 / 4.5 gen aircraft take time---take a lot of time to get used to---.

The chief of army is calling the shots---because in the last war at Kargil---the Paf was a no show---and with this coming clash---there is a good chance that it would still be ill-prepared and undercooked to fight an air war---.




Hi,

There was no rreason for china to offer asylum to Gen Mushy---but china needs to work on the grass root level in pakistan.

It may chose not to do so anywhere else in the world---but the situation with pakistan and china is totally different---.

China needs a totally different approach and policy for pakistan---and it needs to re-think and re-adjust its priorities---chinese hospitals and schools are a must---run by the chinese---. Building bridges amongst the people is not an easy job---but for them to fight for you and ally with you---you have to take things to a different level.

Of course, more hospitals and schools. China had invested mammoth in the infrastructure, we will take it another level in the future. It is the grass root level people of Pakistan love China at the most.

 

[MastanKhan]

Of course, more hospitals and schools. China had invested mammoth in the infrastructure, we will take it another level in the future. It is the grass root level people of Pakistan love China at the most.

Hi,

But for them to fight for you against the corrupt politicians---they need to know---will you help them---.

You know Zardari is ready to sell you to the U S like yesterday---Nawz will do the same to save his ar-se---.

That is the only way left for china---aproach the public---help them help you---.